So, what do you think of the loot change in Shadowlands regarding m+?

[Greyvax]

I cleared 6/10N last week. Received 1 trinket.

I cleared 8/10N and 1/10H this week. Received the same trinket i got last week.

Giving this one more week, and i'm going to unsub.

[james2400]

As usual with the Blizzard development team they cannot find a happy medium if their life depended on it.

Always one extreme to the other.

[froschhure]

worst and i won't even start with m+, tokens must be selling and this is all what matters to them
i am still wondering about the heavy lack of content

[ellieg]

They want to bridge the gap between casuals and hardcore. Not to be mistaken with noobs and the skilled.

If you do your conquest cap you are getting a 200 ilvl piece almost every week. The casual can do this every week or catch up later with the catch up cap. The hardcore will do this each week and raise rating making the 200 up to 226. Still only 1 piece a week.

The casual will do 1 m+ a week to get something from the vault. The hardcore will do a higher key to get a higher ilvl option. They will also do multiple keys for more options for rng protection. Still only 1 piece a week.

The casual will drop into lfr or maybe kill some normal bosses. The hardcore will clear normal, heroic, and work on mythic. Extra progress in vault, still only 1 piece from there compared to the casual.

At 15% drop rate from raids, the hardcore will get an extra piece or 2 each week. No guaranteed upgrades. At 1 piece dropping per m+, 1 more if u time it, it takes a long time to farm it out for an advantage. At a 210 ilvl cap from doing m+15, the hardcores can get a headstart in the beginning, but their extra progress is capped.

Hardcore can also do maw dailies for 5 sockets, equalling 80 secondary stat. An upgrade for sure but nothing crazy.

Even legendaries. Most of the power is from the effect. Those that keep clearing it can get higher ilvl faster but not a huge advantage.

There is no titanforging. The ceiling is capped much lower.

The problem is casuals think they should be getting geared at same rate as previous 2 xpacs. They feel like they are falling way behind but they aren't. The hardcore aren't that much ahead of them. Once all hardcores hit 210ish ilvl, their progress will slow way down and won't have any repeatable farmable upgrades.

I'm a casual. Other casuals need to change their perception, or find a different game to fulfill their need of getting multiple but useless epics for every content they do.

[kaminaris]

I'm a casual. Other casuals need to change their perception, or find a different game to fulfill their need of getting multiple but useless epics for every content they do.

Everything you said is false. Tryhards will keep up their headstart for most of this patch. And casuals will never catch up, ever.

You also forgot that even getting into M+ pugs will be hard as people already require 210 ilvl.
If you are behind then you will stay behind.

[james2400]

Everything you said is false. Tryhards will keep up their headstart for most of this patch. And casuals will never catch up, ever.

You also forgot that even getting into M+ pugs will be hard as people already require 210 ilvl.
If you are behind then you will stay behind.

It does sound confusing when some say this is a ALT friendly expansion when gear is so hard to come by.

[Thokri]

Two weeks of no upgrades outside raid gets disheartening to do m+.

[Zmagoslav]

It does sound confusing when some say this is a ALT friendly expansion when gear is so hard to come by.

In about 2 weeks you will be able to mostly deck out your alts in 190 gear (in form of the covenant sets, if i'm not mistaken about the ilvl), with a sure way to get 1 ilvl200 item a week.
All the while mains will struggle for upgrades and will sit in the 200-210 bracket for a while.

In a relative sense that is alt-friendly.

Everything you said is false. Tryhards will keep up their headstart for most of this patch. And casuals will never catch up, ever.

And that is bad, how?
They will not really catch up. but they'll eventualy get relative close.

You also forgot that even getting into M+ pugs will be hard as people already require 210 ilvl.
If you are behind then you will stay behind.

I don't know what kind of runs you are trying to get into... in the world i live in ilvl 210 is rather an expection to have.
Start your own groups, put in some effort and don't be that entitled.

[Servos]

Up the finished in time loot to three pieces. Keep the fail key loot at one.

If you get a piece of loot from run, keep anima at 35. No loot in end chest for you? 100 anima.

[kaminaris]

And that is bad, how?
They will not really catch up. but they'll eventualy get relative close. .

They will get close when patch will be coming to conclusion. Ie: too late

I don't know what kind of runs you are trying to get into... in the world i live in ilvl 210 is rather an expection to have.
Start your own groups, put in some effort and don't be that entitled.

Thing is, people who stayed behind will probably lose motivation totally.

As much i think preach lives in his own bubble, he is (mostly) right with lis latest movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBJcuFnfWYc
Glad he came to those conclusions fairly fast.

[8bithamster]

In about 2 weeks you will be able to mostly deck out your alts in 190 gear (in form of the covenant sets, if i'm not mistaken about the ilvl), with a sure way to get 1 ilvl200 item a week.
All the while mains will struggle for upgrades and will sit in the 200-210 bracket for a while.

In a relative sense that is alt-friendly.



And that is bad, how?
They will not really catch up. but they'll eventualy get relative close.


I don't know what kind of runs you are trying to get into... in the world i live in ilvl 210 is rather an expection to have.
Start your own groups, put in some effort and don't be that entitled.

You are mistaken.. The campaign gear is between 151 and 171 until renown 15.

[ellieg]

Everything you said is false. Tryhards will keep up their headstart for most of this patch. And casuals will never catch up, ever.

You also forgot that even getting into M+ pugs will be hard as people already require 210 ilvl.
If you are behind then you will stay behind.

Renown will make world quest gear about the same as doing normal raids. Thats almost 200 ilvl for the extreme casuals.

You can do your own key and make a +2 group. Thats a 200 ilvl piece from the vault for the extreme casual who just stepped foot in "hard" content.

World boss gives 207 loot.

You can slowly acquire the 235 lego by the end of patch.

Just doing random bgs every now and then for the conquest reward will get you 200 ilvl pieces, that you can select yourself. So no rng there. This goes up to 207 at 1400, an extremely easy rating you can achieve with random. 213 at 1600 with slightly more effort.

If you are doing the bare minimum you will end the patch at around 200-205 ilvl.

If you progress through moderate m+s (~8ish range), or raid heroic, you will end the patch around 213-220 ilvl. Same as those at 1600 - 1800+ rating.

Mythic raiders and those clearing m+15s will end the patch at 226-230. Same as those at highest rating.

This is ~25 difference in ilvl between lower end of casual and upper end of hardcore. I think they nailed it.

I play 10 hours a week. I am at 197 ilvl with the 190 lego. I replace that next week with the 235 and will be 200 ilvl. It's super easy to get geared as long as you do the areas that reward gear instead of spamming m+ like its last xpac and crying over drop rates.

[Aureli]

I love the weapons lottery.

So no weapon over 190 dropped for you in last 2 weeks? To sad we need to bench you.
Oh guy, you got lucky and got 226 weap from your weekly vault? CG, guess who got a safe space for the progress.

Kinda frustrating tbh, its like legion legendaries... No luck on right loot, no raid spot

[Stacie]

I love the weapons lottery.

So no weapon over 190 dropped for you in last 2 weeks? To sad we need to bench you.
Oh guy, you got lucky and got 226 weap from your weekly vault? CG, guess who got a safe space for the progress.

Kinda frustrating tbh, its like legion legendaries... No luck on right loot, no raid spot

The loot lottery will always be a thing that will never go away unless you have a system where you can work towards something. We do have a system like that its called PVP. If you spend a little time each week doing cap you can easily get a weapon 100% no RNG needed.

Most guilds will swap people in and out to try keep it fair. Swap people in who most need the loot and just got unlucky, swap people out who put no effort in or are playing bad that kinda thing. If this is not happening and its 100% down to you not having a weapon and nothing else find a new guild.

[ellieg]

I love the weapons lottery.

So no weapon over 190 dropped for you in last 2 weeks? To sad we need to bench you.
Oh guy, you got lucky and got 226 weap from your weekly vault? CG, guess who got a safe space for the progress.

Kinda frustrating tbh, its like legion legendaries... No luck on right loot, no raid spot

Get your conquest weapons 5head

[Zmagoslav]

Thing is, people who stayed behind will probably lose motivation totally.

Yeah, sorry but i'm not gonna watch WoW streamers, so i'm cutting that part out;
It was so much better when they hit a relatively higher ceiling and then kept getting vendor trash, right?

You are mistaken.. The campaign gear is between 151 and 171 until renown 15.

That's odd... my rogue alt is wearing 177 pieces as i write this, being at renown 15.
And there's 3 additional chapters, which will likely enable an upgrade each.

I love the weapons lottery.

So no weapon over 190 dropped for you in last 2 weeks? To sad we need to bench you.
Oh guy, you got lucky and got 226 weap from your weekly vault? CG, guess who got a safe space for the progress.

Kinda frustrating tbh, its like legion legendaries... No luck on right loot, no raid spot

The lottery is that bad for everyone of us. You might want to find a better guild OR do the bare minimum and farm yourself the next best thing in form of pvp weapon.

With halfway decent guilds that is not gonna be the big issue you are making it out to be.

[kamuimac]

Do I like getting less loot? No
Do I prefer this system to titanforging? Hell yes!

Blizzard needs to keep up the hamster wheel for the playerbase. So with no titanforging Blizz needs to extend the time it takes until you get BiS to keep us subscribed.
It is all about the money... and has always been.

exept this is not hamsterwheel

you cant have hamsters runing if there is no hamsters because they left bored with "no loot for you wheel"

[Sunderella]

I'm ok with less loot. HOWEVER, the consolation anima token could use a big increase. You spend half an hour (or more) rushing through a dungeon and then your only reward is +35 anima. I mean WTF Blizz? Im fine not getting loot 13 dungeons in a row, but I least I would appreciate some big fat anima tokens

[T-34]

exept this is not hamsterwheel

you cant have hamsters runing if there is no hamsters because they left bored with "no loot for you wheel"

Blizz seems to very smug about the number of players so far.

True casuals just play the game and accept the gear they get.
Good players just play the game, progress and get better gear eventually.
The bitter and bad players feel that they deserve the same gear as the good players, but won't do anything to get better or won't accept that they have reached their skill ceiling.
MMO-champion has very few posters/visitors and a significant part of those posters are of the bitter and bad sort.
Players from group 1 and 2 rarely visit this site.

[ellieg]

I'm ok with less loot. HOWEVER, the consolation anima token could use a big increase. You spend half an hour (or more) rushing through a dungeon and then your only reward is +35 anima. I mean WTF Blizz? Im fine not getting loot 13 dungeons in a row, but I least I would appreciate some big fat anima tokens

The reward is great vault progress.