Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Kathranis]

Hey Krakan, if my family comes over to your house, kidnaps your child, and forces him and his descendents to work in a factory for three generations while keeping all the profit for ourselves, and then my great, great grandson is forced to set your great, great grandson free and sends him to live in a ghetto, do you really think our great, great, great grandchildren have an equal opportunity to succeed?

Either you think the disproportionate economic hardships black and brown people face are the result of generations of systemic descrimination imposed by whites, or you think they're the result of some inherent inferiority.

Which is it?

[Endus]

Ok but what would you personally change?

You listed the problems one of the articles points to family structure... are you suggesting we find a way to shackle partners together?

I want your thoughts on what you would change not a google search result.

This isn't an honest response, either.

Systemic racism is a wicked problem. It has been created by thousands of different influences (and that's likely underselling it by a lot), over centuries of policymaking. Dismantling it is going to similarly require thousands of different efforts and small steps forward, none of which could ever solve the problem by itself.

That doesn't make it impossible, it just means the "name what handful of things you think would fix the problem" is an obviously dishonest approach.

Recognizing the issue and attacking those defending the status quo is a good start, though. And given that those are what I was talking about in my post, it seems like you could've figured this out for yourself, if you'd bothered to read it.

[Krakan]

This isn't an honest response, either.

Systemic racism is a wicked problem. It has been created by thousands of different influences (and that's likely underselling it by a lot), over centuries of policymaking. Dismantling it is going to similarly require thousands of different efforts and small steps forward, none of which could ever solve the problem by itself.

That doesn't make it impossible, it just means the "name what handful of things you think would fix the problem" is an obviously dishonest approach.

Recognizing the issue and attacking those defending the status quo is a good start, though. And given that those are what I was talking about in my post, it seems like you could've figured this out for yourself, if you'd bothered to read it.

I just find it telling that you refuse to give specifics. The problem as I see it is that we are moving further away from racial equality in a desperate attempt to force equality of outcomes something I don't believe we should be aspiring for.

You give everyone the same shot when it comes to the law. Yes being rich is always more adventurous then being poor but I don't think there is a way to easily correct economic standing.

[Endus]

I just find it telling that you refuse to give specifics.

Given that I literally explained why I couldn't definitively do so in the post you're quoting, you're baiting me.

The problem as I see it is that we are moving further away from racial equality in a desperate attempt to force equality of outcomes something I don't believe we should be aspiring for.

Then you're delusional and disconnected from reality. The USA is nowhere close to a state of racial equality, and it literally has never been. It has always been a white supremacist nation. I've already provided that evidence.

If your system is not producing equality of outcomes, then you get a choice of two options;

1> There is systemic prejudices within the system, which is what I've been saying.
2> You feel that some groups are just naturally better than others, which explains the inequality of outcomes. Which is just overt racism.

It's one of the two. There isn't a third option.

[pathora44]

For all I know, the Fifth may shield him from his own stream.

No that isn't how the 5th amendment works. The 5th amendment only protects you from being forced to answer questions that might incriminate yourself. It also isn't like the FBI illegally hacked his computer or broke into his home to find the video breaking his 4th amendment rights. He posted the video of breaking the law himself of his own free volition. It is perfectly legal to use that video of him committing the crime as evidence against him. Now it is possible he immediately jumped to the FBI and is giving names and information of every other insurrectionists to save his own ass from prosecution.

[Krakan]

Given that I literally explained why I couldn't definitively do so in the post you're quoting, you're baiting me.



Then you're delusional and disconnected from reality. The USA is nowhere close to a state of racial equality, and it literally has never been. It has always been a white supremacist nation. I've already provided that evidence.

If your system is not producing equality of outcomes, then you get a choice of two options;

1> There is systemic prejudices within the system, which is what I've been saying.
2> You feel that some groups are just naturally better than others, which explains the inequality of outcomes. Which is just overt racism.

It's one of the two. There isn't a third option.

So what one do you believe? If you believe it is the system name at least a few parts specifically rather then calling that bait.

You haven't given any examples beyond some vague notion of privilege that is somehow everywhere but impossible to see at the same time.

Have the courage to at least define your beliefs.

[Bodakane]

So what one do you believe? If you believe it is the system name at least a few parts specifically rather then calling that bait.

You haven't given any examples beyond some vague notion of privilege that is somehow everywhere but impossible to see at the same time.

Have the courage to at least define your beliefs.

Police.
Banking.
Education.
Housing.
Credit.

for starters.

[Endus]

So what one do you believe?

Seriously, try actually reading my posts, so you don't ask questions I clearly answer in those same posts you're quoting.

If you believe it is the system name at least a few parts specifically rather then calling that bait.

A few parts that what, show that there's discrimination?

Economic disparities.
Differences in policing.
Differences in drug laws.
Disenfranchisement efforts by Republicans.
Discrimination in employment.
Discrimination by private citizens.

Just by way of example.

You haven't given any examples beyond some vague notion of privilege that is somehow everywhere but impossible to see at the same time.

That's a lie. I specifically cited economic data.

Also, that privilege is quantifiably visible in every single item I listed above. Nothing "vague" about it, and it's very easy to see for anyone who bothers to look.

You're really fucking bad at this.

[BeepBoo]

The only way to solve the problem of systemic racism without also using those same tactics that caused this crap in the first place on a bunch of unassuming people who had nothing to do with the shit shows of their forebears is to teach people so they don't make the same ignorant mistakes and slowly let those communities build themselves up. Hopefully, due to new knowledge and acceptance of the new generations, there's also some goodwill and charity to assist in making that process go faster.

It's precisely because those people have experience with and obviously hate the types of slights they've been dealt that I fully expect them to not wish that type of behavior on anyone else.

The best messages I've seen reflecting this surrounding the insurrection have all been "we're not asking you to shoot them like you shoot us. We're asking you to NOT shoot us like you don't shoot them."

[wunksta]

For each and every single one of those points you listed the issue could indeed be systemic racism, such that the members of these groups instigate or encourage being treated differently by others because they behave differently due to inherent systemic racism, with or without having a preference for being treated differently.

African Americans and POC do not sell or do more drugs than white Americans on average, yet are incarcerated for more drug crimes than white Americans are.

- - - Updated - - -

Chilling Supercut Exposes Violent Pre-Riot Rhetoric From Donald Trump And His Enablers

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/daily...b63642b7020d8e

[Poopymonster]

It's relatively great for protecting the people against the government in comparison to protecting the people against corporations.

I thought it was settled..

[Biglog]

One thing to keep in mind about the Jan 6th events is that it really was NOT a very huge crowd of people that did this, relatively. So this was not a massive outpouring of the majority of the US refuting election results or anything like that.

This was a small group that took advantage of the fact that due to the group being relatively small, the capital police did not have a huge presence. The group was 100x smaller than the far more peaceful BLM protesters. But since the BLM crowd was much larger (and frankly a whole lot of systemic police racism I'm sure didn't help), the police presence for BLM protests was also far larger. Little did the police know the Trump protesters were the violent ones that were the actual terrorists, not antifa as the right so often likes to blame.

So in the end it was a massive police and security failure that never should have happened, and many police will lose their jobs over this. But this was nowhere near the mass "revolution" or civil war the alt-right larpers like to pretend is just around the corner and hope for. This was a relatively small group of violent larper terrorists that overwhelmed an undersized police force for the event used to responding to much larger but more peaceful BLM protests.

Thankfully, the fact that the larper terrorists are now increasingly joining #nofly lists and being tracked down one by one until arrested will help deter any future terrorist plots. What's most surprising is that the snowflake GOP pulled this infantile tantrum after losing by over 70 electoral votes in a landslide, the race wasn't even that close. I'll just say I've heard from quite a few more mainstream Republicans that have bailed, saying they can't support an insurrectionist party. And it's a long list of corporations that have pulled GOP donations. Trump will be a former President in 6 days or less with no more power than a regular citizen, and soon the cost of the GOP's blind allegiance to him and his niche base over the past 4 years is likely to be something they regret come election time.

[Noxx79]

No it's a case of sins of the father. You actively want to disadvantage groups to prop up another. Your position is no more relevant then a old clan wizard but from the other direction. I will continue to push for equality but your " old fashioned" views have no reason to linger on and spread their damage further.

You and other racists expose yourself when you say this. Treating everyone the same doesn’t mean treating caucasians worse. If you fear that, then you admit that minorities are treated crappily and are afraid of what will happen when you lose the ability to do such.

Equality means raising the standard of treatment for everybody, not lowering the standard of treatment for anybody.

[Poopymonster]

Take away his government retirement. Now.

Recall to service, court martial.

[wunksta]

Little did the police know the Trump protesters were the violent ones that were the actual terrorists, not antifa as the right so often likes to blame.

Well the FBI was trying to warn the DC police in the days leading up to the event. There was plenty of information posted publicly that there were potentially violent agitators who would be attending.

[Kathranis]

Not sure how you'd manage to fix any of that without causing new forms of discrimination against and unfair / unethical treatment of other (perhaps already) culturally disenfranchised groups.

Any steps taken that don't cause the above should be welcome of course.

Evening the playing field is not discrimination against people who have a head start. It's achieved by lifting up the disadvantaged, not holding down the advantaged.

Redistributing even a fraction of the wealth hoarded by old money billionaires that benefited from systemic descrimination back into the economy would be a good start.

It also needn't be a zero-sum game. Taking affirmative action in college admissions as an example -- it wouldn't be necessary if we invested in higher education to ensure everyone qualified to attend university has a seat at the table regardless of economic status.

Likewise, common sense policies like raising minimum wage to a living wage nationwide, investing in building infrastructure in underserved communities, providing universal healthcare, etc.

These are broad policies that don't even directly target minority populations, but which will benefit them greatly because they are already disproportionately disadvantaged.

[Poopymonster]

that's odd where are the charges under Trump's EO?

or would that come up upon conviction and sentencing?

Maybe waiting for Jan 21st. Don has the attention span of a 4 year old on speed. If someone brings up his EO is hurting His Patriots and Real Americans RIGHT NOW, he might revoke it.

[NoiseTank13]

Ok but what would you personally change?

This is not Endus' responsibility, this is a question people as a collective should ask themselves who want change and come up with something they all agree with.

Asking people what they (singular) would change isn't really productive. Everyone has differing opinions (regardless of similarity).

[Felya]

African Americans and POC do not sell or do more drugs than white Americans on average, yet are incarcerated for more drug crimes than white Americans are.

I’m just ignoring the Pro Violence racist or the thread will devolve to his victim hood...

[Krakan]

Seriously, try actually reading my posts, so you don't ask questions I clearly answer in those same posts you're quoting.



A few parts that what, show that there's discrimination?

Economic disparities.
Differences in policing.
Differences in drug laws.
Disenfranchisement efforts by Republicans.
Discrimination in employment.
Discrimination by private citizens.

Just by way of example.



That's a lie. I specifically cited economic data.

Also, that privilege is quantifiably visible in every single item I listed above. Nothing "vague" about it, and it's very easy to see for anyone who bothers to look.

You're really fucking bad at this.

Alright so what are your solutions to this?