Masterloot should return

[LordVargK]

Personal loot is nice. Just let me trade any loot I get, regardless of item level. Who cares about the top 1% doing alt runs to equip themselves? Let them if they want, currently they just buy the gear instead of farming it anyways...

[Wysmark]

I love personal loot, even if I dont have time raid anymore.

1. No ninjas. I still remember a Sartharion 3-Dragon PuG back in Wrath. Second before boss went down Raidleader switch to Masterloot and Nicks everything. Amusingly the same guy applied and was accepted into my guild (Realm 2nd back then), and I had the pleasure of getting him boosted. Still... this cannot happen no more, which is good.

2. Loot drama. Ive been a part of a LOT of interesting DKP or loot distribution methods. I cleared Black Temple without getting a single piece of loot (in total went 6 months High and dry). Now.. no more long diskussions of “what benefits the guild most” or if this new memoer is ready to get loot


Death to Masterloot

[meowfurion]

Master Loot be like:

"Let's all go to work at our jobs and perform our duties, but only maybe 1 or 2 of you are going to get paid each time the job gets done, and who gets paid is decided by me as the guild leader. If I don't like you for X reason, I'll give the loot that would best benefit you to my girlfriend."

[Exkrementor]

No, It should not. We don't need the loot drama and d-baggery to return, kkthxbye.

Just make it where only full guild raids can use ML like in WoD and all the "drama", that is trown around like it happened in every run but I didnt experience once in 15 years of WoW, is remedied.

Make it so ML drops 1 item per 10 players and PL drops 2 items per 10 players. GG WP easy fix

Master Loot be like:

"Let's all go to work at our jobs and perform our duties, but only maybe 1 or 2 of you are going to get paid each time the job gets done, and who gets paid is decided by me as the guild leader. If I don't like you for X reason, I'll give the loot that would best benefit you to my girlfriend."

Personal Loot be like:
Lets go to work at our jobs and perform our duties but nobody gets paid and if for some reason some actually gets paid its in a currency you cant use in your country but you also cant give it away or trade it.

[Airlick]

My old Semi Hardcore Guild fused with another one at the end of MoP and we started WoD with a new Guildleader that tought DKP would be the right thing to do.
We killed the first 3 Bosses in Week one and our Guildleader + Officer raged over TS for 30 min. since noone wanted any gear and saved the DKP for weapons and trinkets...
9 Mythic Items got disenchanted...
After that i quiet "Hardcore" raiding and iam happy over Randomloot.

That's a guild problem, not an issue with DKP. The guild I spent the most time in never had a problem with hoarding despite using DKP, because we all understood it would harm the raid as a whole if people refused to get many small upgrades just so they can get a weapon first. But then we also made agreements on who would get specific BiS items in what order, so might as well have used loot council.

[Kralljin]

1. No ninjas. I still remember a Sartharion 3-Dragon PuG back in Wrath. Second before boss went down Raidleader switch to Masterloot and Nicks everything.

Two things:
In Legion, you couldn't use ML to begin with in pugs as it required a guildgroup (80% of the group is within the same guild) to turn on ML.
So ML was dead in pugs anyway.

Second, since Vanilla, swapping lootoptions midfight doesn't do shit, it matters with what loot option the boss is engaged.
What you describe cannot even happen in Classic right now, let alone Wotlk, it only works if you swap the loot option *right* before the pull.

[Merlunie]

And how many guilds total are there in WoW. This is like saying nobody fights over loot because me and my 6 buddies never did. You not experiencing something doe not mean it didn't happen. IT also doesn't mean everyone was happy either. IT can also mean that everyone knew to shut up so they wouldn't get kicked.

As has been said, Blizzard has the data, if things were like you said then Blizzard never would have made the change in the first place.

I play in not trash guilds. Sorry bring back ML or allow us to trade our personal loot regardless of ilevel. Can't be asked to accept less loot and not be able to trade it. Stop catering to bad player blizz plz.

[meowfurion]

Just make it where only full guild raids can use ML like in WoD and all the "drama", that is trown around like it happened in every run but I didnt experience once in 15 years of WoW, is remedied.

Make it so ML drops 1 item per 10 players and PL drops 2 items per 10 players. GG WP easy fix





Personal Loot be like:
Lets go to work at our jobs and perform our duties but nobody gets paid and if for some reason some actually gets paid its in a currency you cant use in your country but you also cant give it away or trade it.

You realize, they can both be bad, right? I can dislike them both, right?

You're arguing just to argue.

[Wysmark]

Two things:
In Legion, you couldn't use ML to begin with in pugs as it required a guildgroup (80% of the group is within the same guild) to turn on ML.
So ML was dead in pugs anyway.

Second, since Vanilla, swapping lootoptions midfight doesn't do shit, it matters with what loot option the boss is engaged.
What you describe cannot even happen in Classic right now, let alone Wotlk, it only works if you swap the loot option *right* before the pull.

It could and it did

[Kaver]

The fanfic is believing that it is very easy to find a new guild and also find one that doesn't abuse loot because you won't know until loot starts dropping.

Again, if a guild is abusing loot or anything else then it’s a bad guild and you should leave it no matter what. Removing Masterloot won’t magically turn a toxic guild into a good guild... it will simply disguise the toxicity for a short while. And that’s not a good thing. Because at the core the guild will still be toxic. The issue at hand is not based on loot systems. The issue is based on toxic guilds.

What I really hear you say, is that you are fine with being in a toxic and abusive guild as long as they don’t have the tools to abuse you?

[rrayy]

I play in not trash guilds. Sorry bring back ML or allow us to trade our personal loot regardless of ilevel. Can't be asked to accept less loot and not be able to trade it. Stop catering to bad player blizz plz.

So now being the victoim of loot abusers is to be a bad player? They aren't catering to bad players. They solving the problem of loot abuse. I 'm sure you think you guuild isn't trash because you are on of the players who get loot funneled to them. Masterloot needs to stay dead as it was pure cancer.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, if a guild is abusing loot or anything else then it’s a bad guild and you should leave it no matter what. Removing Masterloot won’t magically turn a toxic guild into a good guild... it will simply disguise the toxicity for a short while. And that’s not a good thing. Because at the core the guild will still be toxic. The issue at hand is not based on loot systems. The issue is based on toxic guilds.

What I really hear you say, is that you are fine with being in a toxic and abusive guild as long as they don’t have the tools to abuse you?

No, it will kill thjose guilds. They cannot funnel gear because any piece that is a higher iLvL than what you have on is not tradeable. So, you have basically eliminated almost all loot abuse. Removing masterloot made the issue more bearable because now as it is almost non existent due to it being a lot harder to do.

[Kaver]

So now being the victoim of loot abusers is to be a bad player? They aren't catering to bad players. They solving the problem of loot abuse. I 'm sure you think you guuild isn't trash because you are on of the players who get loot funneled to them. Masterloot needs to stay dead as it was pure cancer.

- - - Updated - - -

No, it will kill thjose guilds. They cannot funnel gear because any piece that is a higher iLvL than what you have on is not tradeable. So, you have basically eliminated almost all loot abuse. Removing masterloot made the issue more bearable because now as it is almost non existent due to it being a lot harder to do.

Are you seriously saying that the removal of Master loot has eliminated the toxic guilds that would have been abusing it? That’s the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. Those guilds still exist and are as toxic as ever.

You completely avoid my point. I know how the systems work. But I try to explain to you that the loot systems are not the root of the problem. You say that the issue is more bearable but what does that matter if you are still in a toxic guild? You are still surrounded by people who will shit on you if they have the chance. Would you seriously stay in a toxic guild like that just because they lost the ability to abuse you in relation to loot?

If a guild abuse a loot system the answer is to leave that guild right away. Restrictions wont make the situation any better in the long run.

[VinceVega]

Hate hate hated masterloot.
Raidlead always tried to be fair and give loot to the person who needed it the most everyonw git bis and whatnot but that never really worked.
DKP is even shittier system.
Personal loot is fine. Stupid for world first with split raids. Yeah maybe but idgas abotu that.

And i really really despise more currencies i am forced to grind... valor points... *barf*

I like the way it is now. Loot is scarce but if you get something you feel good about it. Remember legion and bfa? Loot left and right. 20 rings in the bag becuase who knows what is best.
I have not been happier with the loot system in a very long time.

[Exkrementor]

You're arguing just to argue.

Makes 2 of us if you only attack one side of the argument and retroactively decide you where neutral all along.

[Gaidax]

What should return is ability to influence your personal loot at least a bit such as bonus rolls or even vendor like Azerite one.

[BeepBoo]

Only ninjas want master loot.

If ur in a guild, people will pass loot they don't need. So stop crying u can't force loot privilege..

Yeah! Unless... you know... that item is 5 ilvl higher than whatever they have in the slot. Say there's an item that is 10 ilvl under whatever it is they get, but that 10ilvl lower item is 50% better than the thing that just dropped. Great. Now say it's god-tier for someone else. A shame that loot is fucking wasted instead of used in the best way for the GROUP that helped acquire it, eh?

2. Loot drama. Ive been a part of a LOT of interesting DKP or loot distribution methods. I cleared Black Temple without getting a single piece of loot (in total went 6 months High and dry). Now.. no more long diskussions of “what benefits the guild most” or if this new memoer is ready to get loot

There's still plenty of loot drama, it's just directed at a different place. The entire reason I play (played?) the game was to epeen stroke in raids and on warcraft logs to the best of my and my raid groups' ability. To do that, you flat out need gear. Having the wombo of personal loot AND a dumb assed McForging made my goal nearly impossible unless I was lucky. Luck should have 0 or near 0 to do with it.

Three tiers between legion and BFA I ended with over 10ilvl difference between myself and the highest ilvl member of the raid. That's huge and retarded. Now take into account people who no-lyfed M+... How am I supposed to compete with that? Even if you have the skill, you can't.

[Kralljin]

It could and it did

Without any proof, i am doing to discard this statement, because you can literally test it in Classic right now.

It's a continous issue in every ZG pug because people switch to Group Loot for trash (as people don't want to assign Bijous and coins manually), then forget to turn on ML before the Boss, realize it midfight, turn ML on and people can still roll on items, as it needs to be on ML before the boss is pulled.

[sponge5307]

Heya. I havent played BFA i took a long break.
Now i have returned in shadowlands and also returned to competetive raiding.
Dam the amount of loot that is actually wasted with personal loot is beyong my imagination.
Why do people complain that much about masterloot in een Guild raid envoirment?
Like if ur in the guild u want to progress and giving certain classes their correct stats helps...
Now you are forced to keep the crappy Ring so you can trae the next ring you will get..

Yes coa it work so well the the Guild leader decide to give loot to all his friend. DKP also don't work coz people would not waste them till the BiS item drop so you have perfectly good upgrade getting D/E and if any new member join the guild good luck to them getting any loot coz everyone will have more DKP. Reset DKP weekly you say? well that's unfair for those who raided with the guild for past few raid tier and show up every raid. So personal loot is better answer.

[AngerFork]

I hope we never see Masterloot back in any form. While it could work good with the right people in theory, people and guilds are way too greedy to do it properly. A few of the things I saw guilds do with Masterloot:

- Disenchant a bow right in front of a Hunter who needed it because "we don't give trials loot."
- Change and massage DKP in order to ensure that they controlled who got the loot they want
- Ninja mounts/pets/rare items
- Force pugs to join the guild in order to stay in raid to hit the 80% mark for Masterloot
- Open up loot to whomever bid and paid the loot master the most gold
- Funnel loot to friends, then trim the remaining people out of the raid because they weren't high enough ilevel
- Divide up loot based solely on parse, which caused people to skip mechanics for better parses

While it's true that those are issues with trash guilds and trash raid officers, the problem is that sort of behavior was becoming more and more common with raids at all levels. Finding a guild with a decent loot system was increasingly difficult, which I'm sure led to more raiders quitting the game out of frustration. Now, loot is largely loot. There's still stuff like RC Loot Council where some degree of Masterloot can occur, but I at least am for the most part able to control my own loot as I get it.

[Stabbyfists]

Honestly, I think wow should adopt a system like FFXIV has in place for Savage mode Raids

Loot drops like normal, but every player in the raid acquires a Book (Token) which they can spend on getting a piece of gear they need after a certain # of kills. However since FFXIV only has 4 bosses per raid tier, it does kinda make it difficult, but not impossible, to adopt to wow, and I think I figured it out and believe it or not, it was thanks to LFR

Put all the items in the raid on a vendor, and put tokens on the following 4 bosses

1. Lady Inerva Darkvein
2. Council of Blood
3. Stonefist Generals
4. Sire Denathrius

You with me so far?

Alright, these 4 bosses drop a token based on their difficulty (LFR - Mythic) which you take to the vendor and you can turn in for items based on their cost

Proc / Stat based Trinkets, Wrists, Cloaks, Rings, and Necks = 1 token from each boss
On Use Trinkets, Boots, Gloves, Shoulders, and Belts = 2 tokens from each boss
Melee and Intellect 1 Hander Weapons, Shields, Chest Pieces, Helms, and Legs = 3 tokens from each boss
Melee and Intellect 2 hander weapons = 4 tokens from each boss

Also with this system in place, one could bring back master looting for guilds, because in theory, pugs/trials would still get loot from bosses in the form of the tokens everyone gets. It also lets you target loot off a certain boss that never drops (Stone Legion Heraldry....*grumble*) It also does not Invalidate the Great Vault because you still want to get lucky from getting those raid boss loot there, but also because there would be no system in place to target Mythic + Items you desire which still gives incentive to use it.