M+ reward suggestion

[Kaver]

I feel like everyone who talks abt gear like this, just wants to gear up in a month then quit. Why don't you cut out the middle man and just unsub now? Lol.

Why do you really want more gear? What are your plans when you finally achieve that gear? Is it to do harder content like mythic raids? Cause you can do that now. Is it to flex epeen on meters? Cause you can join a lower key. If you are even halfway trying you shld be around 210 atm. Thats high enough to get into 99% of content.

I just don't get it. Gear is the carrot. You want to get it in half the time and you're not gonna know what to do when you finally do

Nah you’re missing the point. It’s not about making gearing faster. It’s about making it more reliable and raising the cap for whats possible to get for high level M+. Apply the PvP system to M+ with a weekly cap and stop the limitless gear.

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5 man content cannot compete with 20 man content for the same item level rewards else it becomes the most efficient way to play the game. Need proof? Look at what happened to 25M raiding when Blizzard made 10M drop the same item level gear. It's not a matter of the "most difficult content rewarding the best gear," it's a matter of Blizzard not wanting to completely invalidate Mythic raiding.

If you add a weekly cap to M+ loot then it wont kill raiding. Pushing keys should then be about gaining rating to upgrade gear and the weekly cap would dictate how much gear you could get every week. EXACTLY the same as the PvP system.

[ellieg]

Nah you’re missing the point. It’s not about making gearing faster. It’s about making it more reliable and raising the cap for whats possible to get for high level M+. Apply the PvP system to M+ with a weekly cap and stop the limitless gear.

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If you add a weekly cap to M+ loot then it wont kill raiding. Pushing keys should then be about gaining rating to upgrade gear and the weekly cap would dictate how much gear you could get every week. EXACTLY the same as the PvP system.

Thats way too deterministic imo.

And if you put a cap on it like conquest, ppl are gonna complain abt there's nothing left to do after they reach it. It takes abt 2 hours to hit conquest cap in pvp. What will ppl do after that? Will great vault still be a thing for M+? Because once you outwear the 210 rewards from +15s, the only loot from M+ is the vault. If we are getting vault loot and high ilvl gear from the currency to buy the exact piece we want, gearing will be done way faster.

[Kaver]

Thats way too deterministic imo.

And if you put a cap on it like conquest, ppl are gonna complain abt there's nothing left to do after they reach it. It takes abt 2 hours to hit conquest cap in pvp. What will ppl do after that? Will great vault still be a thing for M+? Because once you outwear the 210 rewards from +15s, the only loot from M+ is the vault. If we are getting vault loot and high ilvl gear from the currency to buy the exact piece we want, gearing will be done way faster.

Is the PvP system also too deterministic then?

Look at the PvP system and all your questions will be answered:

- You would need to push keys to gain ranking to upgrade gear. Exactly like PvP.

- Gearing will not be done faster if there is a weekly cap. Again exactly like the PvP system.

- The weekly chest would still be relevant. Exactly the same as the PvP system.

- Make the weekly cap be reachable by doing 10 keys. Then it’s coordinated with the weekly chest and it would definitely give more than 2 hours playtime.

- M+ doesn’t have to be an infinite grind. It’s nice to be done for the week and people enjoy playing alts. Don’t worry about people not having anything to do.

There is absolutely no reason why M+ cannot function exactly like PvP. People are creating arbitrary problems which can easily be dealt with.

[LordVargK]

1.) People enjoy more than one type of content
2.) We already have enough gear in our bags. The last thing we need is a requirement to carry even more of it.

That's both true, and because that's true content needs to be balanced out. That's why m+ loot should not be buffed or if it gets buffed it must have a cap on how much you can aquire in a week.
Or simplest solution: just don't change anything, the current system is absolutely fine.

[marulol]

It should be how it was in BFA. No one complained about loot in BFA m+. Have m+ 15's reward 3 ilvls higher than heroic. I dont get why they made m+ 15's reward lower loot than heroic gear. M+15 should reward 216 gear at end of run.

[Loveliest]

But are you comparing apples with apples or oranges? Are you doing RBG with a similar team as those +15? So are you doing RBG with

It's different things either way. Pvp difficulty is not set, because your opponent matters and is variable. Pvp can be an unpassable wall if your opponent is better than you and has better gear than you. In pve you are ensured a time based nerf (assuming you get some loot from vault) and the opponent skills and gear are static if you take a specific key level as reference.
Dont get me wrong, I am not saying one is harder than the other, all i am saying is that pvp difficulty is not static so sometimes it might be super easy, sometimes super hard.

[ellieg]

Is the PvP system also too deterministic then?

Look at the PvP system and all your questions will be answered:

- You would need to push keys to gain ranking to upgrade gear. Exactly like PvP.

- Gearing will not be done faster if there is a weekly cap. Again exactly like the PvP system.

- The weekly chest would still be relevant. Exactly the same as the PvP system.

- Make the weekly cap be reachable by doing 10 keys. Then it’s coordinated with the weekly chest and it would definitely give more than 2 hours playtime.

- M+ doesn’t have to be an infinite grind. It’s nice to be done for the week and people enjoy playing alts. Don’t worry about people not having anything to do.

There is absolutely no reason why M+ cannot function exactly like PvP. People are creating arbitrary problems which can easily be dealt with.

Pvp is very deterministic but loot doesn't drop in arenas like it does m+. You get 1random piece from vault each week, you get enough conquest each week to give you a new predetermined piece every 1.5 weeks.

Loot drops in M+. You get very high ilvl gear from vault for M+. on top of this you want to add deterministic loot you can buy with points and you don't think this will speed up the gearing process?

I know ppl hate on RNG but its the only thing that slows this game down. Being able to select the exact piece you want, at high ilvl, is not good for pve. Boosting is gonna go way up.

[Kaver]

Loot drops in M+. You get very high ilvl gear from vault for M+. on top of this you want to add deterministic loot

NOO! I WANT A SYSTEM LIKE PVP! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY!

Sorry for caps

The points is, I don't think the limitless loot system of M+ is good. Change it. We don't need it to be limitless. Make it like the PvP system. Please understand. Make... it... like... the... pvp... system (passive aggressive smiley)

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I know ppl hate on RNG but its the only thing that slows this game down.

This is not true at all. I don't know why people blindly believe this. A weekly cap on how much gear you can get can be just as slow. Deterministic gear doesn't have to mean faster gear. Again look at PvP. If you only gear through PvP it's pretty slow. But it's just much more satisfying because you know what you are working towards. Blizzard can have 100% control of how fast gearing is by defining caps. RNG is not needed for M+ to be good. And gear doesn't have to be limitless.

[Biomega]

Really? 9.0 dungeons? For all expansion? Equal activity to new raids? Mythic is a lesser side activity with lesser rewards.

Don't blow this out of proportion. It worked fine for the last two expansions. It's obviously not a new or radical concept.

[Argorwal]

I don’t know if making mythic+ gearing like PvP is a great idea. One of the key aspects right now is mythic+, raids, and PvP gearing systems all have pros and cons and work differently.

Making them work the same way sounds boring.

[Ealyssa]

You can't put the best ilvl into farmable content, period. That just invalidate everything else.

The best way to improve MM+ reward would be a system close to PVP, with a vendor (to buy and/or upgrade) and a catchable (important point) weekly cap on the currency.

[Batoa]

It is frustrating. Nothing less.
Im an M+ only player. 9 runs without loot over a span of 3 days just sucks. No time for more. Only a *bad luck protection* is all i want.

Not fun and sorry, but 35 Anima for a timed +13 doesnt feel rewarding.

[Argorwal]

It is frustrating. Nothing less.
Im an M+ only player. 9 runs without loot over a span of 3 days just sucks. No time for more. Only a *bad luck protection* is all i want.

Not fun and sorry, but 35 Anima for a timed +13 doesnt feel rewarding.

But your friends/guildies got items right? It’s not like the dungeons just didn’t drop anything.

Kinda like killing a 100 pull boss and 17 out of 20 not getting an item. Some do, and next time you may or items can be traded. More weeks, more kills, more progression.

[Asrialol]

holy hell, do not compare 2200 rbg rating with +15 mythic dungeons please.

unpredictable vs scripted to say the least.

former is way and i mean it WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder than the latter. did i say way ? good.

Getting 2200 in rbgs isn't difficult though, so I guess that means +15 is completely "free"?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Feels like the reward scale was designed around preventing loot trading in the WF race and not so much for reward to level of challenge. I got no problem with the two opening weeks of a season being low balled to preserve that if Blizzard finds it important to do so. After that though balance rewards around level of challenge. But I am doing 10 to 15 keys on the reggie and pretty much get 35 ap or pretty much in the ball park of normal raid gear level items. Sure feels harder than that normal pug I do every week on Tuesday in a couple hours. Normally takes more consumes. Dealing with more QQ. Time wasted traveling the world. Getting shit keys. Having keys get burned by ads hats.

I am not asking for more or better. I am asking for a scale that makes sense. Mythic raiding gear and tip top PvP stuff being better is ok with me. Probably should be. But fuck man let me get over normal raid geared players plowing 10 to 15 keys for a month and change.

[Argorwal]

Feels like the reward scale was designed around preventing loot trading in the WF race and not so much for reward to level of challenge. I got no problem with the two opening weeks of a season being low balled to preserve that if Blizzard finds it important to do so. After that though balance rewards around level of challenge. But I am doing 10 to 15 keys on the reggie and pretty much get 35 ap or pretty much in the ball park of normal raid gear level items. Sure feels harder than that normal pug I do every week on Tuesday in a couple hours. Normally takes more consumes. Dealing with more QQ. Time wasted traveling the world. Getting shit keys. Having keys get burned by ads hats.

I am not asking for more or better. I am asking for a scale that makes sense. Mythic raiding gear and tip top PvP stuff being better is ok with me. Probably should be. But fuck man let me get over normal raid geared players plowing 10 to 15 keys for a month and change.

And those 10-15 keys give you 220-226 in your weekly vault where your normal pug gives you 200, with a low chance at a 207.

Need to view the entire gearing package.

[Thalrend]

Currently M+ feels unrewarding and there are a lot of discussions about it. It seems Blizzard hit the sweetspot with pvp.

So hereby my suggestion for a different reward structure for m+.

Only m0 drops gear. The gear you get is at rank 1 and ilvl 184.

M+ gives you a currency to upgrade rank 1 mythic dungeon gear. The higher m+ you do the more currency you get. A run in time will give more currency than a run out of time. Furthermore the currency is based on the dungeon timer. Dungeons with longer timers reward more currency. This way all dungeons keep their value for M+.

Like with pvp your skill (rating/highest m+) will decide to which rank you can upgrade gear. For example you have a trinket from Halls of Atonement. You can upgrade that trinket to a rank related to the highest Halls of Atonement you cleared in time. The item rank is related to the dungeon where the item is found. So people can’t buy a boost from the easiest dungeon and upgrade all there gear to max level.

Use the following ranks.
Rank 1 - M0 - ilvl 184
Rank 2 - M2 - ilvl 186
Rank 3 - M3 - ilvl 188
Rank 4 - M4 - ilvl 192 (bigger jump due to finishing with affix)
Rank 5 - M5 - ilvl 194
Rank 6 - M6 - ilvl 196
Rank 7 - M7 - ilvl 200 (bigger jump due to finising with two affixes)
Rank 8 - M8 - ilvl 202
Rank 9 - M9 - ilvl 204
Rank 10 - M10 - ilvl 210 (bigger jump due to finising with the seasonal affixes)
Rank 11 - M11 - ilvl 212
Rank 12 - M12 - ilvl 214
Rank 13 - M13 - ilvl 216
Rank 14 - M14 - ilvl 218
Rank 15 - M15 - ilvl 220
Rank 16 - M16 - ilvl 222
Rank 17 - M17 - ilvl 224
Rank 18 - M18 - ilvl 226
Rank 19 - M19 - ilvl 229 (only for weapons)
Rank 20 - M20 - ilvl 233 (only for weapons)

Futhermore the vault rewards should have the same rank as the dungeon you finished. So if your highest 4 runs are 10, 9, 9 and 8. The first option should be a rank 10 item (so ilvl 210) and the second option should be a rank 8 item (so ilvl 202). Futhermore the loot tables used should contain only dungeons you finished at that rank. If you finished only Sangiun Depths on m10 than you first option will be from Sangiun Depths. If you finished 5 dungeons on 8 or higher, than the second option will be from those dungeons. The loot table is not weekly based but all time.

A nice to have would be if you don’t have an option you want, that you can get 50% of the currency that it would take to upgrade to the rank of option 1.

Last I would really like it if the anima amount you get at the end of the dungeon would be related to the level of the m+ so m10 gives more anima than m2.

I hope Blizzard do something soon and not wait till patch 9.1. At the moment at lot of people I play with including myself are losing the motivation to do mythic+ while we had fun at the beginning of the season.

Meanwhile I do agree that +15 should drop something more than a fucking 210, 210 for +10 is a no. Its farmable content. Maybe they can increase the item level drops of end of the dungeon chest by +5 or some shit if you time it, so a +15 should give like 215 gear, which is harder than heroic raids anyway, but even then I think it will to high considering its farmable.

However, I would love to see to have a option to get a 233 weapon from m pluses somehow. Should be from Weekly vault tho. And id say +18 for a chance on it is feasible. Even that might be a bit low, maybe it only happens if you time a +18. Or if you time all +18s or some shit and it gives you a 233 weapon bead, any source of it will be welcome.

M pluses is the only source where you cannot get a 233 weapon, so any solutions to add a option to there should make it more rewarding. Also, for love of god , +15s should give fucking 150 anima at the very least, not fucking 35. same goes for raids.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

And those 10-15 keys give you 220-226 in your weekly vault where your normal pug gives you 200, with a low chance at a 207.

Need to view the entire gearing package.

I would be willing to wind that back. I would rather be rewarded for doing it in the game rather than doing it for 3 pulls at the slot machine if that makes sense?

[bmjclark]

Yea blizzard really gutted mythic+ loot this expansion. Which is kind of a shame because its the only content I actually enjoy. Without titanforging I really don't understand why they couldnt have at least left it at 2 pieces of loot for failing the timer, 3 for succeeding. I'd rather get showed in useless garbage I can't use like in Legion than get the occasional drip of useless garbage I can't use like I am right now.

[Argorwal]

I would be willing to wind that back. I would rather be rewarded for doing it in the game rather than doing it for 3 pulls at the slot machine if that makes sense?

I’m not disagreeing, but then you need to balance no lockout content against lockout content.