28 bosses down and got 2 items which are useless...

[ohwell]

Welcome to Ion's vision. Ran a full normal / HC yesterday and had three coduits for two specs I will not be playing in SL. Great fun.

Blame the recent expansions for showering you with gear assuming the treadmill of titanforge would keep people going. Back in previous expansions (BC/WotLK/Cata) I'd go weeks without loot. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Zephire]

As title says, i've killed 28 HC bosses last 3 weeks, and all i got is 2 items... Yes, literally 2 items, out of 28 bosses. And guess what, i did not even equipped them since their stats were trash for my spec...

Oh wait, nowadays we dont get items from raids right ? ohh yea i totaly forgot that, in this expansion Raiders get the best items from M+ and PvP... yes, yes, thats %100 right, PVP... Best trinkets are the ones you get from PvP (Duelists)

So seriously, am i the only one who finds this system weird ?

As a conclusion, Blizzard needs to add at least a reforger to change our items' stats in exchange of ash souls (Just an idea)... maybe put a limit of 1 or 2 items a week...

But please for the love of god DO SOMETHING... !

And you had nothing to trade or given to you from other raid members? Did HC previous week, got a weapon, a shield, two trinkets and a ring. Trinkets were loot, the rest I won by rolling on things the other raiders didn't need. It was a full clear. You must've been unlucky and I must've been lucky. Still, if you raid with a guild the chances of getting loot ramps up a lot due to people being nice and trading small upgrades or such just to improve the general power of the group. Do recommend that.

OT of loot aqusition though. I would not mind some kind of PvE version of the PvP system where you can upgrade your gear depending on what you've killed in PvE or something. A way of soft power increase that you 100% controll. Kinda like a bad luck protection.

I do like how rare loot are but it becomes irritating the better gear you have since it's more likely you won't get an upgrade everytime you recive loot if your ilvl is high.

[Kaver]

Dude, while the game is balanced in your favour you will not see it, you will only see it when the game balance swings the other way, then you will be "the problem" and brushed off as someone who has given up.

Trust me your day will come. i promise you, you keep living under that dillusion that your output is strictly skill based and down to the effort you put in and then one day blizzard will take it all away and boom, then your in my shoes and the 140.000 people a year that are jumping ships shoes.

you're*

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Seems like you're going off topic.

My point is, there is a general consensus that the PvP gear system is better than the raid/m+ gear system. That's all I'm saying mate.

[SoloMmofriendly]

You get nothing, 213 is a joke ilvl. Unless you kill mythic bosses you are getting shit rewards from Vault. Its easier to do high key and get better item.
And this system is not new so you got 1 piece of gear per week even before.

Gearing in PVE sucks this expansion. Even for +15 you get shit loot and its not that easy to kill. There needs to be a system to upgrade m+ gear same as PvP gear.
Also PVE players shouldnt be forced to play PVP if they want better loot. they can disable PVE trinkets in PVP and vice versa on top of it.

Again, everyone crying for this, for that, blizzard have it perfect how they want it. ie: blizzard are dumb. why you think they lost 60-70% of the playerbase since there peak? they are clueless and by catering to only one area of the community they are only going to be left with that 1 area eventually as more and more people move from that 1 area they cater to and realise holy shit there is nothing for anyone else.

[GringoD]

Loot was more sparse in Vanilla-MoP and masterloot worked fine. But PL is an upgrade, just not a good one, because it's so restricting that it prevents players from willingly trading loot to a peer.
And my understanding was that loot trading was restricted to counter WF guilds running multiple alt raids to equip their mains. Now they run BoP raids instead, so why not just lift the loot restriction?

In Classic onwards people accepted that sparse loot is how it is. Nowadays them not getting loot is making them frustrated and raging at Blizz, see this thread. People would unload that frustration on the masterlooter, too, no doubt. A lot of people aren't selfless enough to view things from beyond their character screen.

ML always created drama, so Blizz put a lid on it. Shafting split raids is a neat side effect.
Dunno what BoP raids are. I think you mean trash farming for BoE's. Your thinking is kinda weird, because taking a step back won't make trash farms go away.

[SoloMmofriendly]

This is what people have been wanting for years now, to make loot more "meaningful".

The only way to make loot more meaningful is to make content harder or loot harder to obtain. they go hand in hand.

But that will NEVER happen because the majority of the player base is now made of players that dont have the time to play much so want content to be easy. thus lies the problem....

the loot cant be meaningful unless its
a)difficult to get or
b) needed to do difficult content.

Neither can be achieved while also asking for the content to be easy and accessable for all. while asking for that you are also asking for the game to be accessable and balanced to cater for the players at a level below you.

[thunderdragon2]

And you had nothing to trade or given to you from other raid members? Did HC previous week, got a weapon, a shield, two trinkets and a ring. Trinkets were loot, the rest I won by rolling on things the other raiders didn't need. It was a full clear. You must've been unlucky and I must've been lucky. Still, if you raid with a guild the chances of getting loot ramps up a lot due to people being nice and trading small upgrades or such just to improve the general power of the group. Do recommend that.

OT of loot aqusition though. I would not mind some kind of PvE version of the PvP system where you can upgrade your gear depending on what you've killed in PvE or something. A way of soft power increase that you 100% controll. Kinda like a bad luck protection.

I do like how rare loot are but it becomes irritating the better gear you have since it's more likely you won't get an upgrade everytime you recive loot if your ilvl is high.

i have just cleared 8/10 for the 6th time in a row (missed sludge) and ALL i am getting from the raid are duplicate slots even with my vault im getting minor upgrades for 213s soon my vault will be useless since i cant seem to get 11s and 12s done consistantly and i cant get into 14s....

[thilicen]

Blame the recent expansions for showering you with gear assuming the treadmill of titanforge would keep people going. Back in previous expansions (BC/WotLK/Cata) I'd go weeks without loot. There's nothing wrong with that.

No, I blame the game designers for putting useless trash in the loot tables. I'm fine with having less loot, but when an item finally drops I don't want it to be a piece of shit augment for a spec I'm not fucking playing. Hell even 95% of the ones for the spec I AM playing are 100% irrelevant.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

No, I blame the game designers for putting useless trash in the loot tables. I'm fine with having less loot, but when an item finally drops I don't want it to be a piece of shit augment for a spec I'm not fucking playing. Hell even 95% of the ones for the spec I AM playing are 100% irrelevant.

Conduits are not included in your chance to get an actual item. You can get both conduit and item at the same time.

[Elkfingers]

And guess what, i did not even equipped them since their stats were trash for my spec...

I'm sorry that you had bad luck. You also should have simmed those items because even if the stats were trash, if there was an ilvl increase there's a good chance that they were still upgrades.

My Fire mage is crit stacked right now. I'm sitting at about 550 crit, which is far from fuckin ideal. I'm still doing considerably more damage. You've got to play the hand you're dealt.

[LordVargK]

In Classic onwards people accepted that sparse loot is how it is. Nowadays them not getting loot is making them frustrated and raging at Blizz, see this thread. People would unload that frustration on the masterlooter, too, no doubt. A lot of people aren't selfless enough to view things from beyond their character screen.

ML always created drama, so Blizz put a lid on it. Shafting split raids is a neat side effect.
Dunno what BoP raids are. I think you mean trash farming for BoE's. Your thinking is kinda weird, because taking a step back won't make trash farms go away.

Yeah, I meant BoE raids. And that's my point: WF guilds will do anything that gives them an advantage and will spend countless hours to do so regardless what blizz does. So taking them into consideration is useless. And restricting the entire playerbase because of them is harmful.

And I don't want Blizzard to be the babysitter. SL was announced as the "give players agency"-expansion. Let the players do what they want. If a group wants to use masterloot, let them. If a raidlead does not want drama, then he should enable personal loot. There simply is no need for Blizzard to intervene, they can just provide means to an end. As you said, Players will always whine about not having enough loot. That complaint can't be taken serious.

[GringoD]

Yeah, I meant BoE raids. And that's my point: WF guilds will do anything that gives them an advantage and will spend countless hours to do so regardless what blizz does. So taking them into consideration is useless. And restricting the entire playerbase because of them is harmful.

I wouldn't say it's useless. They'd be happier if there was no trading and no BoE's, because they'd have an easier time and would have less gold debts.
But the focus is not on world firsters. As I said, ML always produced drama and without trading restrictions, tryhard guilds at all levels would twist PL to do the same.

And I don't want Blizzard to be the babysitter. [...] If a raidlead does not want drama, then he should enable personal loot.

Kinda works like the free market vs. government intervention debate. Can't really do much to argue here, just a matter of perspective.
But if I as raidlead get the choice and don't go for ML, then people on my team who want to tryhard will always find situations to neg on it. Or just outright leave.
The mere choice alone creates drama. I know this because I had these discussions during Antorus when we had it.

[LordVargK]

I wouldn't say it's useless. They'd be happier if there was no trading and no BoE's, because they'd have an easier time and would have less gold debts.
But the focus is not on world firsters. As I said, ML always produced drama and without trading restrictions, tryhard guilds at all levels would twist PL to do the same.



Kinda works like the free market vs. government intervention debate. Can't really do much to argue here, just a matter of perspective.
But if I as raidlead get the choice and don't go for ML, then people on my team who want to tryhard will always find situations to neg on it. Or just outright leave.
The mere choice alone creates drama. I know this because I had these discussions during Antorus when we had it.

I don't argue that it would not create drama. But isn't some drama part of every group? Not even in WoW, but in real life as well. There are always obstacles to overcome and doing so provides solidarity within the group. A good player will recognize that the needs of the raid as a whole is more important than the needs of the individual raider. That's how good raids distributed loot. A bad player might leave, well now you have one less bad player, good for the raid. I can see that losing a player is a problem for a mythic guild, because of the 20 player requirement. But at that skill level aquiring loot should not really be the sole motivation for playing in a raid.

Of course there will be the typical drama with biased raid leads equipping themselves or their officers, etc... But finding a new raid is pretty easy. And some drama is part of what makes raiding a social experience, something unrivaled by any other activity in the game.

My point is: Restricting a system to avoid bad social behavior in such a way that good social behavior gets restricted as well is a mistake. While this could be a philosophical debate, I'd argue, that the typical raider in a non-PuG raid generally has a positive attitude towards his fellow raiders. When designing a game system one should expect players to have this positive attitude and not focus on restricting bad behaviour.

[Nalam the Venom]

another thread about this? isn't there a main thread already discussing this?

most people want their opinion and arguments to be the very focus of threads, so they make their own threads.

[bagina]

So seriously, am i the only one who finds this system weird ?

No, I grinded items in PvP, raiding is a total waste of time. What a thankless affair. Too big of an investment for such low returns.

And I don't want Blizzard to be the babysitter. SL was announced as the "give players agency"-expansion. Let the players do what they want. If a group wants to use masterloot, let them. If a raidlead does not want drama, then he should enable personal loot. There simply is no need for Blizzard to intervene, they can just provide means to an end. As you said, Players will always whine about not having enough loot. That complaint can't be taken serious.

Ha, they already police how much you're allowed to play and attain with their shameless timegating which some patronizing snobs aka drones consider "looking out for the fanbase" as to "not let them burn out too fast". Comedy gold. Imagine thinking like that. Hilarious but also sad.

[Gaidax]

All the back and forth aside.

Raid loot clearly needs to have some sort of bad luck protection. If you do full 10 bosses raid clear you should at least have one drop guaranteed - it might be a sidegrade or even downgrade, but you absolutely should be having that and it's not something unreasonable to ask for, given it's activity that takes good 2 hours the least if not days.

So yes, I am glad Blizzard acknowledges there is a work to be done. I personally hope they will reintroduce some form of Azerite Vendor, where you can at least target a gear slot once per 2-3 weeks depending on slot power or so even with RNG token if they have to ~OR~ reintroduce weekly coins, because they do that one thing that is needed now - give some form of bad luck protection going.

[Aurora]

I've had similar bad luck as the OP. I get that blizzard want to slow down gearing and understand the reasons for that but it feels ridiculous to go through multiple raid nights and receive absolutely nothing.

What really grinds is they solved this problem already in the past with badges. I wouldn't mind getting no drops from a raid so much if I was at least getting some sort of currency that was building towards something.

[erifwodahs]

Loot drop rates are bad, but we I managed to get to 217 ilvl just by raiding HC and doing m+. It's not just luck, most of my m+ group is 215 now so... Don't expect be fully decked in bis gear if you only do couple of dungeons a week?

- - - Updated - - -

I've had similar bad luck as the OP. I get that blizzard want to slow down gearing and understand the reasons for that but it feels ridiculous to go through multiple raid nights and receive absolutely nothing.

We were 3 plate carriers in last nights HC clear. Only 2 plate items dropped, one of us only got items which were traded to them into jewelry slot, if any dropped . It happens, but M+ is farmable, so being in decent gear is not that hard. Also you get extra items when you time over 16+ so it makes it even easier to gear up hence rewarding skill. Tho by the time I started timing 16+ I only had 4 slots sub 210.

[Marrilaife]

No, I grinded items in PvP, raiding is a total waste of time. What a thankless affair. Too big of an investment for such low returns.

It's sad and hilarious how big disparity there is between linear pvp gearing and complete roulette pve gearing. Pve usually gives fuck all outside of weekly vault, pvp you have honor / conquest items AND still get the vault which can easily reward items close or equal to mythic raiding. Bring back badges.

[LordVargK]

Ha, they already police how much you're allowed to play and attain with their shameless timegating which some patronizing snobs aka drones consider "looking out for the fanbase" as to "not let them burn out too fast". Comedy gold. Imagine thinking like that. Hilarious but also sad.

You can play as much as you want. I don't know what you're talking about.