Investing in the stock market

[Mister K]

big yikes on crypto this week and past few, down almost 10k from 40k.



You realize supply and demand still exist right?

you capture a huge asteroid full of X, trillions of tons of it. Figure out a way to mine it and bring back to earth.
You will crash that commodities price and it will reset to a new price figure based on the enormous supply.


you think anyone's going to pay today's price for copper if you find 2 trillion tons if it tomorrow and figure out how to mine it.


It would require the current supply to be very limited and the cost to mine those trillions very prohibitive and the need for the supply to be excessive in order for people to make trillions.

You bought at ATH? Yes Crypto is volatile as fuck but why on earth you would invest currently I don't know. We seen a 15% to 25% dip. It's still good to diversify funds into various pies, with crypto a bigger risk if you are willing to loose. This isn't rocket science.

Bringing back supply from space allows for larger use of those supplies. You think demand does not grow something?

Once again, the next big investment opportunity will be space exploration as many new companies will arise. Maybe graphene/battery tech companies and other areas in the energy sector.

DIVERSIFY

[Zan15]

You bought at ATH? Yes Crypto is volatile as fuck but why on earth you would invest currently I don't know. We seen a 15% to 25% dip. It's still good to diversify funds into various pies, with crypto a bigger risk if you are willing to loose. This isn't rocket science.

Bringing back supply from space allows for larger use of those supplies. You think demand does not grow something?

Once again, the next big investment opportunity will be space exploration as many new companies will arise. Maybe graphene/battery tech companies and other areas in the energy sector.

DIVERSIFY

ATH? There has been how many "highs" so far in the last 3 months only to have 20% of it wiped out in a few days.
On top of that, these scary possibilities.

https://fortune.com/2021/01/22/bitco...-double-spend/

That and 2500 or so people own half of all the bitcoins. Some can dump the market instantly by 10-20-30% and manipulate the hell out of the price to make even more money. There are so many limits in the stock market that prevent you from this kind of manipulation because it used to happen and hell its creates a fucking mess where the normal layperson loses massive amounts of money overnight.




Not at the rate mining a big o'l space rock would provide.

Space exploration will be just like any other emerging industry. Most companies will be a failure but they will pump up the stocks to make quick profits and the majority of the baggers will lose money. The one's who will make the money are the pre-stock investors once the IPO hits.

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You guys ever heard of a reddit called Wallstreetbets? They're responsible for why GameStops stock skyrocketed. Apparently Citron was going to show them and the stock is still going. As the meme goes, "stonks always go up". This stuff is hilarious.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetb...ks_only_go_up/

Well the people responsible for the stock skyrocketing are the assholes who shorted the stock on margin, to the tune of 138% of the total outstanding shares.
All they did is figure that part out.

Once they realized the shorts would never be able to cover, it was game on not game stop....get it...get...it?




What has happened is a lot of retail investors lost a shit ton, now a lot more retail investors piled in and are losing money.


The big investors lost money on the call but they had the financial ability to cover their shorts. They also have the ability to pile back in at 50-70 and make the money back on the massive incoming drop. The original retail investors who shorted are bust.

this is backed up by the fact we are now at 140% short, pushing 150% and the share volume has been massive.


This is 1990 penny stock manipulation using social media. Its a different form of communication from the 1990's, but its the same pump and dump shit that eventually became highly illegal manipulation and many people were prosecuted for it.



Oh and now they are pushing Blackberry trying to do the same thing.....

[Vash The Stampede]

This is 1990 penny stock manipulation using social media. Its a different form of communication from the 1990's, but its the same pump and dump shit that eventually became highly illegal manipulation and many people were prosecuted for it.

Oh and now they are pushing Blackberry trying to do the same thing.....

I know and it's hilarious as hell. The only difference here is they didn't create the stock, but they are pumping it up. I can't imagine that a bunch of people coordinating online to pump up a stock is the same as someone creating Enron and pumping up their own stock. These guys gave it a boost and other investors are literally jumping in without any clue why it's going up. There is zero reason why GameStop should have any value what so ever. It's currently sitting at $65 and it did hit $73 at some point.

The stock market is broken. Stonks only go up. If these guys get their chicken tendies then I can't fault them for it. This is how a market crash starts when rich investors realize the peasants are eating their chicken tendies.

[Zan15]

The stock market is broken. Stonks only go up. If these guys get their chicken tendies then I can't fault them for it. This is how a market crash starts when rich investors realize the peasants are eating their chicken tendies.

well the only reason why the "market" goes up is because anytime someone is losing money or value they get kicked from the Dow, Sp500 or Nadsaq.

If you actually took the Dow when you were born and tracked its performance with all the stocks over the years and include all the ones that were added it would show a really different value right now. Easy to keep going up when every bankrupt company is removed for the next huge growth stock like Tesla.

[Vash The Stampede]

well the only reason why the "market" goes up is because anytime someone is losing money or value they get kicked from the Dow, Sp500 or Nadsaq.

If you actually took the Dow when you were born and tracked its performance with all the stocks over the years and include all the ones that were added it would show a really different value right now. Easy to keep going up when every bankrupt company is removed for the next huge growth stock like Tesla.

Even Tesla doesn't make much sense when it comes to stock growth. They did sell 40% more cars last year but the stock grew 800%. I think a lot of people are using their money to buy into the stock market because they have no other source of income. Wouldn't shock me if some of it was from the stimulus checks.

[Themius]

Even Tesla doesn't make much sense when it comes to stock growth. They did sell 40% more cars last year but the stock grew 800%. I think a lot of people are using their money to buy into the stock market because they have no other source of income. Wouldn't shock me if some of it was from the stimulus checks.

That’s a silly thought..it’s mostly the already well off and banks...traders...computers.

[toastlanda]

Even Tesla doesn't make much sense when it comes to stock growth. They did sell 40% more cars last year but the stock grew 800%. I think a lot of people are using their money to buy into the stock market because they have no other source of income. Wouldn't shock me if some of it was from the stimulus checks.

*Sigh* The number of people who like to share their opinions on stuff they know literally nothing about never ceases to amaze me.

You don't value a company according to its current profitability. Future value is factored into the current price. Tesla's price is so high because they spent a bunch of money on software and infrastructure improvements that make it impossible for any company to catch them. They have a de facto monopoly on the future of autos. And, like most dumb people, you don't seem to understand cars are just one thing they do.

There is the potential for the company to be 10 times the size of amazon. It is shooting for total domination of the taxi, energy, trucking and auto markets. If they pull of even a quarter of what they are going for then they will have unprecedented power. And Musk has a record: paypal was genuinely revolutionary, and the technical challenges spaceX has already pulled off dwarf those of terestrial tesla.

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ATH? There has been how many "highs" so far in the last 3 months only to have 20% of it wiped out in a few days.
On top of that, these scary possibilities.

That and 2500 or so people own half of all the bitcoins. Some can dump the market instantly by 10-20-30% and manipulate the hell out of the price to make even more money. There are so many limits in the stock market that prevent you from this kind of manipulation because it used to happen and hell its creates a fucking mess where the normal layperson loses massive amounts of money overnight.

Wow, imagine that! No one has ever manipulated stock or fiat currency before!

Bitcoin made its investors multi-millionaires. It is a revolutionary payment system that enables p2p transfer with no intermediaries. These facts never get mentioned by old media farts who perpetuate a self-serving narrative that is is somehow scary and dangerous. It is only dangerous to their friends in banking.

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You realize supply and demand still exist right?

you capture a huge asteroid full of X, trillions of tons of it. Figure out a way to mine it and bring back to earth.
You will crash that commodities price and it will reset to a new price figure based on the enormous supply.


you think anyone's going to pay today's price for copper if you find 2 trillion tons if it tomorrow and figure out how to mine it.


It would require the current supply to be very limited and the cost to mine those trillions very prohibitive and the need for the supply to be excessive in order for people to make trillions.

Yes that's how supply and demand works. You find a ton of gold in a mine and its worthless because the market instantaneously adjusts. Makes you wonder why mining companies exist.

That said I'm constantly amazed by people that can watch a youtube video (I even know WHICH youtube video) and think asteroid mining is a viable concept in the short to medium-term.

[Vash The Stampede]

You don't value a company according to its current profitability. Future value is factored into the current price. Tesla's price is so high because they spent a bunch of money on software and infrastructure improvements that make it impossible for any company to catch them.

With Apple making their own car based on Honda of all things, and GM working with Microsoft for self driving cars, I wouldn't say that Tesla has any advantage over the competition.

They have a de facto monopoly on the future of autos. And, like most dumb people, you don't seem to understand cars are just one thing they do.

Yes, I'm sure a lot of people can't wait to buy a car that isn't allowed fast charging when Tesla says so.

There is the potential for the company to be 10 times the size of amazon. It is shooting for total domination of the taxi, energy, trucking and auto markets. If they pull of even a quarter of what they are going for then they will have unprecedented power. And Musk has a record: paypal was genuinely revolutionary, and the technical challenges spaceX has already pulled off dwarf those of terestrial tesla.

How's the Tesla solar roof? How's the The Boring Company?

[Zan15]

*Sigh* The number of people who like to share their opinions on stuff they know literally nothing about never ceases to amaze me.

You don't value a company according to its current profitability. Future value is factored into the current price. Tesla's price is so high because they spent a bunch of money on software and infrastructure improvements that make it impossible for any company to catch them. They have a de facto monopoly on the future of autos. And, like most dumb people, you don't seem to understand cars are just one thing they do.

There is the potential for the company to be 10 times the size of amazon. It is shooting for total domination of the taxi, energy, trucking and auto markets. If they pull of even a quarter of what they are going for then they will have unprecedented power. And Musk has a record: paypal was genuinely revolutionary, and the technical challenges spaceX has already pulled off dwarf those of terestrial tesla.

.

Oh the irony
He never argued that he argued that the stock rise is not realistic.
Do you even realize what Tesla has to do to get the values they currently have?


How much would Tesla need to earn 10 years hence? That depends on its price/earnings ratio looking ahead. It's unlikely that any big automaker can remain a runaway growth machine after decades in the business, but we'll give Tesla a generous multiple of 25 in 2030, meaning that investors still expect it to wax at better-than-industry rates. In that case, Tesla would need to post $26.4 billion in GAAP net earnings by the summer of 2030 ($33.4 billion pretax, less corporate rate of 21%).

It would basically have to become the largest carmaker in the world, but continue to sell cars with an average price of 55k+ without any profit % loss. they would have to earn 25-30 billion in profits.

All this while they have some massive competition. Fucking ford is going to roll right over Tesla when it comes to pickup trucks and that does not even include #2-4 doing the same. they have no vehicles to compete in 80% of the car market.

How long is Tesla going to be able to ride off the subsidies of Emission credit sales? Its huge reason why they were even profitable.



The only chance they have is their other businesses which make up only 11-13% of their revenue. Zero profit btw.
The second these secondary businesses really start to shine they will split them out into separate companies so Musk can reap the rewards.

Straight up this stock right now is gambling not investing in future impossible growth. They would need 220 years of the current growth to match their stock price.

Wow, imagine that! No one has ever manipulated stock or fiat currency before!

Bitcoin made its investors multi-millionaires. It is a revolutionary payment system that enables p2p transfer with no intermediaries. These facts never get mentioned by old media farts who perpetuate a self-serving narrative that is is somehow scary and dangerous. It is only dangerous to their friends in banking.

.

Never said they didn't.

You know Pets.com also made its investors millionaires, but 99% of the unfortunately lost it all. Can give you a few thousand more recent examples if you want of companies that vaulted with nothing backing up the stock prices. Hell you got Gamestop doing it right now because of massive manipulation and stupid shorts.

As for bitcoin
Its a system that hardly anyone accepts.
Its a system that is unregulated and you can't even get your money if something happens like you forget your password/hash/info etc.
Its a system that is going to be regulated to the same level as every other currency and system, losing most of its benefits.

Bitcoin is another fly by night pyramid scheme that a bunch of people will make a lot of money on. The majority, not so much. Hell 2500 people own half the market.

[Rasulis]

Even Tesla doesn't make much sense when it comes to stock growth. They did sell 40% more cars last year but the stock grew 800%. I think a lot of people are using their money to buy into the stock market because they have no other source of income. Wouldn't shock me if some of it was from the stimulus checks.

I can't speak for their other products, but their Powerwall is the bomb. I did a lot of research before we installed two Powerwalls last year. Nothing was remotely close in term of cost, efficiency, customization, quality and warranty.

Would I directly invest in Tesla? No. A P/E ratio of over 1,600 is a bit insane. Granted there was that one time when Amazon P/E ratio hit 3,700 and people that invested back then ended up doing fine.

Do I think Tesla will be 10 times bigger than Amazon. Very doubtful. Right now, with the exception of Walmart, the companies with the highest revenues are all low overhead service companies. When it comes to companies with the highest net revenue (profit), they are all low overhead service companies. All of them, including Walmart, also have large global mass customer base.

None of Musk's companies match those criteria. All of them have high overhead cost & small customer base. Overall, the EV market is still a small share of the overall car market. With well established competitions such as Toyota, Ford & GM, and deep pocket new comers such as Nio, and a bunch of new start ups like Faraday, Fisker, etc. It is a really crowded market. Boring and Rocket X face the same issues. Very small specific customer base. The number of large tunneling projects globally that require the use of a tunnel boring machine (TBM) can be counted with your fingers. As for Rocket X, you don't make money sending people to Mars. That's a money-losing proposition for now. They plan to make their money through sattelite internet broadband service – Starlink. Another very crowded market – OneWeb, Amazon, Keppler, etc. The one sector where the company dominate is electric storage battery, both small and large scales. The only problem, I am starting to sound like a broken record, the customer base is too small.

Can I avoid investing in Tesla? Since Tesla is now part of the S&P 500 with the fifth highest market cap, if you invest in any kind of index fund, probably pretty unlikely.

BTW, since Tesla joined the S&P 500, the energy sector is now only worth 1.2% of the S&P 500. How the mighty has fallen.

[Zan15]

I can't speak for their other products, but their Powerwall is the bomb. I did a lot of research before we installed two Powerwalls last year. Nothing was remotely close in term of cost, efficiency, customization, quality and warranty.

Would I directly invest in Tesla? No. A P/E ratio of over 1,600 is a bit insane. Granted there was that one time when Amazon P/E ratio hit 3,700 and people that invested back then ended up doing fine.

Do I think Tesla will be 10 times bigger than Amazon. Very doubtful. Right now, with the exception of Walmart, the companies with the highest revenues are all low overhead service companies. When it comes to companies with the highest net revenue (profit), they are all low overhead service companies. All of them, including Walmart, also have large global mass customer base.

None of Musk's companies match those criteria. All of them have high overhead cost & small customer base. Overall, the EV market is still a small share of the overall car market. With well established competitions such as Toyota, Ford & GM, and deep pocket new comers such as Nio, and a bunch of new start ups like Faraday, Fisker, etc. It is a really crowded market. Boring and Rocket X face the same issues. Very small specific customer base. The number of large tunneling projects globally that require the use of a tunnel boring machine (TBM) can be counted with your fingers. As for Rocket X, you don't make money sending people to Mars. That's a money-losing proposition for now. They plan to make their money through sattelite internet broadband service – Starlink. Another very crowded market – OneWeb, Amazon, Keppler, etc. The one sector where the company dominate is electric storage battery, both small and large scales. The only problem, I am starting to sound like a broken record, the customer base is too small.

Can I avoid investing in Tesla? Since Tesla is now part of the S&P 500 with the fifth highest market cap, if you invest in any kind of index fund, probably pretty unlikely.

BTW, since Tesla joined the S&P 500, the energy sector is now only worth 1.2% of the S&P 500. How the mighty has fallen.

Amazon hit 3700 because they had extreme charges to earnings that one reporting year and a half.

they went from 1.21 to .81 to .07 cents EPS
then to -.09 cents

they leveled off again once those few quarters were over in the 100-300 range.

Most analyst and serious stock market players knew how to strip out these charges/events to get to the true EPS number and true PE

Tesla has no special charges against their earnings in a meaningful way that is artificially spiking their PE


Of course they had insane growth waaaaaaaaaay beyond what tesla currently has.


I am out of the SP500 index fund i was in because of Tesla and a few others. Went more specialized funds that ignore tesla but try to get the broader market.
That and my Citibank investment that spiked to 69.90 but is now 61-62. Had a sell order at 70.70. Got greedy from the low 40's.

Oh well.


got another 5k to invest due to my christmas revenue increase. Still looking, i am feeling a little bit of a pull back here overall so i might wait till feb.

[Rasulis]

Amazon hit 3700 because they had extreme charges to earnings that one reporting year and a half.

they went from 1.21 to .81 to .07 cents EPS
then to -.09 cents

they leveled off again once those few quarters were over in the 100-300 range.

Most analyst and serious stock market players knew how to strip out these charges/events to get to the true EPS number and true PE

Tesla has no special charges against their earnings in a meaningful way that is artificially spiking their PE


Of course they had insane growth waaaaaaaaaay beyond what tesla currently has.


I am out of the SP500 index fund i was in because of Tesla and a few others. Went more specialized funds that ignore tesla but try to get the broader market.
That and my Citibank investment that spiked to 69.90 but is now 61-62. Had a sell order at 70.70. Got greedy from the low 40's.

Oh well.


got another 5k to invest due to my christmas revenue increase. Still looking, i am feeling a little bit of a pull back here overall so i might wait till feb.

Nathan Rothschild once said “I never invest at the bottom, and I always sell too soon.” Basically bet the trend, but don't try to beat the market. Very wise man.

He also said "Tax the rich, and tax them heavily." Definitely a very wise man. Although, odd words coming out from one of the richest man of his time.

[hellhamster]

I've kinda switched from stock market to crypto investing in the the last 2 weeks following the Bitcoin hype. I didn't want to partake in crypto for a long time, because a: I was expecting the bubble to burst at any moment, b: fear, uncertainty and doubt coming from the Fed, c: I never delved deeper than the surface (I never actually looked at charts), d: volatility, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you learn your crypto market basics and can make you a shitton of money in the long run.

However, since the new US government didn't take a harsh view on crypto (other than some probable changes in its taxation coming from one particularly old lady), this had to mean that everything is fine. My 2 cents:

Of course the stock market has gems like Tesla, Amazon and other less known gems (looking at you microchip manufacturers). Of course you could buy at an insane low due to Covid crashing the markets last year and make 700% in some insane cases. Overall though they have NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING on crypto as far as gains go. People are looking at Bitcoin and they go "well, it immediately went -30% after its all time high". Well, first of all, the crypto community WANTS a market correction after the insane rally of late, because it's healthy in the long run. It will be bearish for a few weeks, but it will inevitably fly high again once it reaches a certain low. Secondly, all this hype attracts people and money, increasing the market cap, hence the price given that the volume remains relatively unchanged, even more. Not just people, but institutions and big funds with big money as well. Thirdly, there is huge unrealized potential on alternative cryptocurrencies, many of which can go x5, x10 or even x100 in the long run, like Cardano, Ethereum, Chainlink, Polkadot, Avalanche etc. These alternative cryptocurrencies use technologies that are vast improvements on Bitcoin and can be implemented in future markets. Bitcoin has some severe flaws (ie energy consumption, lack of Oracle implementation, proper staking etc) that these alternative currencies seek to fix with their own platform.

Crypto and its core beliefs are revolutionary and the way to the future. Having a decentralized means of currency without any intermediaries controlling the value and transactions is the future. As soon as fiat money lost its precious metal equivalence, its value plummeted, and governments can't do anything from preventing inflation that is the result of banking with quantative easing. There are some issues with crypto like the majority of volume is being controlled by a small amount of people that isn't analogous to the global population, but I believe that will be ironed out in the future.

Surely, crypto volatility is much bigger, but this also means that the gains and volume changes are astronomically higher. However, I strongly advise spending a lot of time doing your own research, learn how to read charts (VERY IMPORTANT), or at the very least listen to a friend who's experienced in crypto before going in.

[Zan15]

I've kinda switched from stock market to crypto investing in the the last 2 weeks following the Bitcoin hype. I didn't want to partake in crypto for a long time, because a: I was expecting the bubble to burst at any moment, b: fear, uncertainty and doubt coming from the Fed, c: I never delved deeper than the surface (I never actually looked at charts), d: volatility, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you learn your crypto market basics and can make you a shitton of money in the long run.

However, since the new US government didn't take a harsh view on crypto (other than some probable changes in its taxation coming from one particularly old lady), this had to mean that everything is fine. My 2 cents:
.

there is a 60 day pause on regulation on transactions over 3k.
If these regulations go through it will cripple the biggest selling point of Bitcoin. Its one hell of a bet on a president and party that is more likely to want to collect the taxes being avoided then let them continue to slide

No way are they going to avoid FinCEN rules/regulations especially with the big push on sex trafficking in this country.

No way are they going to avoid the tax monkey coming down on them now that democrats are in charge. And i support this, why should they be able to make 1100% and not pay taxes but the other 99% of the investing community pay taxes on their gains?

its a much bigger risk then most of the stock market right now.

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Of course the stock market has gems like Tesla, Amazon and other less known gems (looking at you microchip manufacturers). Of course you could buy at an insane low due to Covid crashing the markets last year and make 700% in some insane cases. Overall though they have NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING on crypto as far as gains go. People are looking at Bitcoin and they go "well, it immediately went -30% after its all time high". Well, first of all, the crypto community WANTS a market correction after the insane rally of late, because it's healthy in the long run. It will be bearish for a few weeks, but it will inevitably fly high again once it reaches a certain low. Secondly, all this hype attracts people and money, increasing the market cap, hence the price given that the volume remains relatively unchanged, even more. Not just people, but institutions and big funds with big money as well. Thirdly, there is huge unrealized potential on alternative cryptocurrencies, many of which can go x5, x10 or even x100 in the long run, like Cardano, Ethereum, Chainlink, Polkadot, Avalanche etc. These alternative cryptocurrencies use technologies that are vast improvements on Bitcoin and can be implemented in future markets. Bitcoin has some severe flaws (ie energy consumption, lack of Oracle implementation, proper staking etc) that these alternative currencies seek to fix with their own platform.

.

I already listed several stocks in this thread that have done just as well as Crypto and a few that have done better the farther you go out with a lot less risk and volatility

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Crypto and its core beliefs are revolutionary and the way to the future. Having a decentralized means of currency without any intermediaries controlling the value and transactions is the future. As soon as fiat money lost its precious metal equivalence, its value plummeted, and governments can't do anything from preventing inflation that is the result of banking with quantative easing. There are some issues with crypto like the majority of volume is being controlled by a small amount of people that isn't analogous to the global population, but I believe that will be ironed out in the future.

Surely, crypto volatility is much bigger, but this also means that the gains and volume changes are astronomically higher. However, I strongly advise spending a lot of time doing your own research, learn how to read charts (VERY IMPORTANT), or at the very least listen to a friend who's experienced in crypto before going in.

Now that the total value is where it is, you can expect massive regulation and taxation in its future

they said the same thing about sales tax and the internet.

i am confused however that you talk about a currency not being tied to an asset and thus losing value, what is Bitcoin tied too?
At least there are assets and ability tied to the dollar, Bitcoin has nothing but....itself.

seems based on your logic it will suffer the same fate as fiat money.

[hellhamster]

there is a 60 day pause on regulation on transactions over 3k.
If these regulations go through it will cripple the biggest selling point of Bitcoin. Its one hell of a bet on a president and party that is more likely to want to collect the taxes being avoided then let them continue to slide

No way are they going to avoid FinCEN rules/regulations especially with the big push on sex trafficking in this country.

No way are they going to avoid the tax monkey coming down on them now that democrats are in charge. And i support this, why should they be able to make 1100% and not pay taxes but the other 99% of the investing community pay taxes on their gains?

its a much bigger risk then most of the stock market right now.

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I already listed several stocks in this thread that have done just as well as Crypto and a few that have done better the farther you go out with a lot less risk and volatility

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Now that the total value is where it is, you can expect massive regulation and taxation in its future

they said the same thing about sales tax and the internet.

i am confused however that you talk about a currency not being tied to an asset and thus losing value, what is Bitcoin tied too?
At least there are assets and ability tied to the dollar, Bitcoin has nothing but....itself.

seems based on your logic it will suffer the same fate as fiat money.

Crypto taxation isn't a real problem. The real problem is emphasis on taxing unrealised gains based on total value that will screw everyone over, not just investors in crypto, but also investors in stock market, futures, hell, even startups or companies that have just started out and don't have any liquidity. The problem is, if the taxman says your portfolio/unrealised gains is worth 1 million dollars on January 1 and you have to pay a percentage back, if you have no other income or funds you are gonna have to liquidate your investments or holdings, likely at a much lower fraction that what the taxman has attributed. There is no way in hell that would happen in the US, but they specifically mentioned regulating and taxing unrealised gains, and that is extremely worrisome for the entire economy.

Regarding risk and volatility, crypto is entering the stage where institutions and funds are finally taking notice, and should slowly begin to mirror the volatility of the stock market. However, risk and volatility can bring higher rewards in the right hands, which is why many people are attracted to cryptocurrencies in the first place.

The value of cryptocurrencies and the reason they have exceeded fiat currencies is tied to the fact that their manufacture is not controlled by a bank or government, but by their uniqueness. Every single piece of crypto is tied to a range of numbers, all unique and identifiable, so that no 2 cryptocurrencies are the same or can be tampered with. It's like a rock collection, every single piece of rock is unique and identifiable as a rock, and manufacturing each new rock takes time and effort. Additionally, the value of each cryptocurrency is also tied to its abilities. Bitcoin is valued far higher right now than the rest because it's the first and most popular one and the volume is set in stone, other cryptos have better applications and better value in different scenarios.

[Zan15]

wow this is getting insane. Might be time to bet the vix because this kind of volatility is contagious


Close at 70s....pre market spike to 160. bounce down to 90....sitting at 70s


A lot of idiots lost money this morning as a bunch more made a ton. Basically betting on Red at the casino at this point.

I am glad the shorts got screwed big time because shorting should be illegal. but now its way beyond them being effected.
Most of the shorts have big pockets, they are going to make it all back and then some shorting Gamestop all over again at these levels.



I am really worried about this level of coordinated manipulation of stocks.
If a a bunch of hedge funds got together and tried to coordinate this kind of activity they would be fucked hard by the SEC.

They have caused 6-8 stocks today to rocket 20-40-80%.

[crapel]

Oh the irony
He never argued that he argued that the stock rise is not realistic.
Do you even realize what Tesla has to do to get the values they currently have?


How much would Tesla need to earn 10 years hence? That depends on its price/earnings ratio looking ahead. It's unlikely that any big automaker can remain a runaway growth machine after decades in the business, but we'll give Tesla a generous multiple of 25 in 2030, meaning that investors still expect it to wax at better-than-industry rates. In that case, Tesla would need to post $26.4 billion in GAAP net earnings by the summer of 2030 ($33.4 billion pretax, less corporate rate of 21%).

It would basically have to become the largest carmaker in the world, but continue to sell cars with an average price of 55k+ without any profit % loss. they would have to earn 25-30 billion in profits.

All this while they have some massive competition. Fucking ford is going to roll right over Tesla when it comes to pickup trucks and that does not even include #2-4 doing the same. they have no vehicles to compete in 80% of the car market.

How long is Tesla going to be able to ride off the subsidies of Emission credit sales? Its huge reason why they were even profitable.



The only chance they have is their other businesses which make up only 11-13% of their revenue. Zero profit btw.
The second these secondary businesses really start to shine they will split them out into separate companies so Musk can reap the rewards.

It is like you work for one of those clueless american finance channels.

Jesus Christ. Tesla is NOT a carmaker. Its success is not dependent on selling cars.

Since you don't seem to understand this maybe you could at least explain how you think the other car companies will catch up, despite the fact they are years behind in terms of data collation on self-driving and most other fields? Is it because you think there is some magic about household names that have been treading water for a decade-but you didn't actually do any research on this?

[crapel]

Oh the irony
He never argued that he argued that the stock rise is not realistic.
Do you even realize what Tesla has to do to get the values they currently have?


How much would Tesla need to earn 10 years hence? That depends on its price/earnings ratio looking ahead. It's unlikely that any big automaker can remain a runaway growth machine after decades in the business, but we'll give Tesla a generous multiple of 25 in 2030, meaning that investors still expect it to wax at better-than-industry rates. In that case, Tesla would need to post $26.4 billion in GAAP net earnings by the summer of 2030 ($33.4 billion pretax, less corporate rate of 21%).

It would basically have to become the largest carmaker in the world, but continue to sell cars with an average price of 55k+ without any profit % loss. they would have to earn 25-30 billion in profits.

All this while they have some massive competition. Fucking ford is going to roll right over Tesla when it comes to pickup trucks and that does not even include #2-4 doing the same. they have no vehicles to compete in 80% of the car market.

How long is Tesla going to be able to ride off the subsidies of Emission credit sales? Its huge reason why they were even profitable.



The only chance they have is their other businesses which make up only 11-13% of their revenue. Zero profit btw.
The second these secondary businesses really start to shine they will split them out into separate companies so Musk can reap the rewards.

Tesla is NOT a carmaker. Its success is not dependent on selling cars.

Since you don't seem to understand this maybe you could at least explain how you think the other car companies will catch up, despite the fact they are years behind in terms of data collation on self-driving and most other fields? Is it because you think there is some magic about household names that have been treading water for a decade-did you actually do any research on this?

[hellhamster]

The Gamestop short was inevitable, I really have no idea how people never saw this coming. They bumped the price to hell for no reason at all and were left amazed when there was backlash.

A good tip: if it ain't a tech firm and it's gaining like a motherfucker without any news, NEVER ride that wave unless you're shorting.

[crapel]

Bitcoin is another fly by night pyramid scheme that a bunch of people will make a lot of money on. The majority, not so much. Hell 2500 people own half the market.

You seem to be talking a lot, but incapable of learning anything.

Bitcoin has a utility. It allows p2p digital transfer between individuals without an intermediary. I explained this to you but you didn't understand.

Something with a major utility is almost by definition not a ponzi scheme since something of fundamental value is being transferred.