Could the World of Warcraft and its characters defeat those of Starcraft and Diablo?

[TigTone]

WoW seems to be incredibly inconsistent between what they describe and what actually happens. The Legion SUPPOSEDLY has all this power, yet has never brought it to bear in the actual game and has never actually shown us any of it. The biggest Fel Reaver we've seen was defeated by single individuals; "collapsing star" sounds impressive (and by the way, not all stars go supernova at the end of their life) but cannot possibly be an accurate description given the energies involved. My guess is it's mostly Legion propaganda and boasting, with only a kernel of truth (e.g. they could just use something like fission/fusion processes for powering Reavers and simply CALL this "the power of a collapsing star"). Either that, or physics in the WoW universe works COMPLETELY different in which case we cannot make any predictions at all because we don't know the rules.

Only assumption we can make about WoW physics is that magic allows the manipulation of it. Even break realities.

Azeroth races may not have the tech of Starcraft but the powerful magic users it has can definitely closes any gap there is in term of fire power and resources.

[Nynax]

If we'd be arguing equal stats, then we'd just be arguing which verse has the most hax. And WoW has the most hax, and just more of everything. Starcraft has the Zerg and the Protoss, which cannot do shit if we normalize/equalize their power, and Diablo has Imperius and shit like that, which, once again, are equalized, so their immense power means nothing if they have no hax.

I'd say it's more fun to argue this, since you can bring up why either the Legion could dismantle the Zerg, or why the Zerg could absolutely eat up the Legion. And you'll find interesting arguments from both sides. I've found some interesting points myself. Especially in regards to Diablo, which is a verse I lack proper knowledge of.

Idk if that's really equalizing though. Equalizing would be like....let's assume an Orc warrior would be a match for a single zergling, but probably not a hydralisk. Early Jaina/mages would be a match for a High Templar. Post MoP Jaina would be a match for the Queen of Blades. But these are extremely rare and unique characters. Where is the Hordes/Alliance answer to siege tanks? How do they deal with a whole Battlecruiser when their equivalents are literally made out of wood, some iron, and hot air? Is the answer always "a godlike being intervenes?"

And "cause magic" isn't really an answer for me. That magic causes physical world effects so it must have physical properties after it's "unleashed." Does frost magic freeze everything "just cause" or is it more realistic to assume it materializes ice around a target, reinforced ice but still ice. Does a fireball hit as hard as a supersonic cannon shell? Is a mana bomb equivalent to the force destruction of a tactical nuke? If so, it's possible for bigger Starcraft units/buildings to survive it. How strong is the Shield Dalaran can put up? How much punishment can it take and why can't we assume that a Protoss Mothership shield is at least it's equal?

I don't actually want you to answer these questions, just sharing my thinking and why I get bored by "we have reality altering Gods." So at the end of the day, the only actual versus is WoW Gods vs Diablo Gods vs Starcraft Gods. And sure, WoW Gods win there's a lot more of them...and apparently they don't actually die.

[darkoms]

Its really not that hard to get. Nothing of what I said is confusing, or anything like that. No one is screaming or crying here either. Also, you do realize that we won not just because of Azeroth, yeah? We also won cause of the Army of the Light, the Titan Pantheon, and some other things like forces of the Void, and forces from other cosmologies like life (The Dream is not just an Azeroth thing btw).

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The Legion has Fel Reavers that can destroy planets, and/or bring out enough force the level of a collapsing star (Supernova level, basically). Hard to believe that their even bigger ships cannot do such a thing. Like, really, I find it neigh impossible to believe such a thing.

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I think I'll just leave this thread. I made my points, and most of the counter arguments I've heard have already been debunked or have been explained already. I enjoyed this conversation though. I got to know more about Diablo and Starcraft, which is nice. Which reminds me, when I get home, I should replay Diablo 3. Also leaving this thread since some people are starting to get very toxic when debating me, and I'm just not going to deal with it.

I'll bring out some WoW scaling scans once I get home. After that, I'm basically done. So, if I don't reply to your stuff, my bad. Just not gonna focus on the thread is all. See ya, and thanks for the discussion. Y'all can do your own discussions from here.

I'm talking generally about how you write your posts. Too much fanboy.
The Army of the Light helped on Argus, the Pantheon only helped in the end, but yes, we won only thanks to them. Forces of the Void? In which place? Xal'atath?
The Emerald Dream is only found on Azeroth. There is a dimension of Life (perhaps called the Gardens of Life), but the Dream is unique to Azeroth.

[DeltrusDisc]

Depends entirely on the potency of their technology and magic in their opposing worlds.

If the efficacy of guns and explosion in the warcraft universe is any indication Starcraft's forces would barely be able to inflict pin pricks in terms of damage for example.
But with Diablo it's even iffier because the magic seems different mostly, but on the other hand the demons of Diablo seem like mere kittens compared to i.e. the old gods or creatures like Deathwing, and the alliance and horde did win against those.
On the other hand the Nephalem effectively soloed the prime evil and Malthael, so (s)he's absurdly strong - then again a titan is way stronger again than even a nephalem i'd wager, and again we did kill that too.
So really it boils down to the specifics in the case of Diablo vs. Warcraft, but i think that Starcraft's just way below it all there due to its dependancy on technology that just doesn't really work against Azerothians (and thus presumably Diablo creatures as well) and its distinct lack of magic.

Lack of magic? Clearly you've never played Starcraft and thus your understanding of SC weapons and such is negated.

All I need to say is: "Kerrigan."

[TheFirstOnes]

Also, regarding WoW physics, this is the same game where Sargeras legit stabs Azeroth with his blade, but it at the most only destroys Silithus, and causes internal bleeding from Azeroth VIA Azerite pouring out of the world. There was some corruption shit, but that's that.

Even though, something like that should be able to destroy the entire fucking planet, but like I said, it's bad writing on WoW's part.

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Not to mention the fact that Sargeras' blade should be much fucking bigger than what's shown in game (As it's literally a reforged, fel amplified version of the blade that cleaves worlds in two, as shown in the Chronicle). But, whatever. I'll accept it. If Blizzard wants to ignore the blade's existence atm, I'll ignore it. -_-

"The Emerald Dream is only found on Azeroth. There is a dimension of Life (perhaps called the Gardens of Life), but the Dream is unique to Azeroth." Wasn't it stated that Ardenweald and the Dream were polar opposites of each-other though? And I don't remember Ardenweald being an Azeroth only factor. Would love to see more of the planes of Life though. Maybe later this expac? They're already setting something up there.

That's all people.

[Biomega]

Honestly, I have no idea what's up with WoW. My argument is that it's bad writing from Blizzard, in order to make WoW players seem as powerful as possible, which therefore can provide an excuse for when they and the Titan Spirits face Argus.

I mean, that makes it sort of a moot point doesn't it. They SAY a lot, but nothing we've actually SEEN in the game even comes close. Omg this can destroy entire worlds yada yada - yet somehow the weapons barely work in a 20-meter radius in actual practice. This has the power of ONE THOUSAND SUNS - but a single player character can somehow just handle it fine. Too much story conceit there I suppose, to make any sort of realistic prediction.

[TheFirstOnes]

I mean, that makes it sort of a moot point doesn't it. They SAY a lot, but nothing we've actually SEEN in the game even comes close. Omg this can destroy entire worlds yada yada - yet somehow the weapons barely work in a 20-meter radius in actual practice. This has the power of ONE THOUSAND SUNS - but a single player character can somehow just handle it fine. Too much story conceit there I suppose, to make any sort of realistic prediction.

I mean, you could just argue that our power was pretty insane at the time, especially with the Artifact weapons, which some of them have recorded history of decimating worlds (Like the Maw of the Damned, or the Scepter of Sargeras), or having divine power (Like the Scythe of Elune).

I seriously need to stop saying I'm done with a thread, only to reply more lmao.

[Nynax]

Idk if that's really equalizing though. Equalizing would be like....let's assume an Orc warrior would be a match for a single zergling, but probably not a hydralisk. Early Jaina/mages would be a match for a High Templar. Post MoP Jaina would be a match for the Queen of Blades. But these are extremely rare and unique characters. Where is the Hordes/Alliance answer to siege tanks? How do they deal with a whole Battlecruiser when their equivalents are literally made out of wood, some iron, and hot air? Is the answer always "a godlike being intervenes?"

And "cause magic" isn't really an answer for me. That magic causes physical world effects so it must have physical properties after it's "unleashed." Does frost magic freeze everything "just cause" or is it more realistic to assume it materializes ice around a target, reinforced ice but still ice. Does a fireball hit as hard as a supersonic cannon shell? Is a mana bomb equivalent to the force destruction of a tactical nuke? If so, it's possible for bigger Starcraft units/buildings to survive it. How strong is the Shield Dalaran can put up? How much punishment can it take and why can't we assume that a Protoss Mothership shield is at least it's equal?

I don't actually want you to answer these questions, just sharing my thinking and why I get bored by "we have reality altering Gods." So at the end of the day, the only actual versus is WoW Gods vs Diablo Gods vs Starcraft Gods. And sure, WoW Gods win there's a lot more of them...and apparently they don't actually die.

Edit: And I'm being easy on Starcraft here, because in Starcraft lore Zerg have a bio armor that takes multiple rounds form a rifle that fires "hypersonic 8 mm armor-piercing metal 'spikes' which can penetrate up to two inches of steel plating" to kill a single zergling. There is a reason they are a huge threat to the galaxy there. And the Horde has what, Steel swords/axes and bows?

[Candy Cough]

Tell that to the Legion, a force that also could've vaporized all life on Azeroth at anytime with their ships, but couldn't do so. Wanna know why? Probably because simply bombing Azeroth like that doesn't work that way.

...Are you delusional? Maybe play starcraft before you say that?



Here a single protoss mothership evaporates all life on a zerg infested planet

[TheFirstOnes]

Yeah, and Sargeras' blade being plunged into Azeroth doesn't destroy the planet whatsoever for some unknown reason. Your point?

[Candy Cough]

Well, Diablo is purely magic and Starcraft is purely technology, while WoW is technology combined with magic so it has huge advantage. They can match whatever Diablo/Starcraft attempts, while Diablo has 0 defense against tech and Starcraft has 0 defense against magic.

Id very much classify psionics capable of conjuring storms with their minds as magic

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Yeah, and Sargeras' blade being plunged into Azeroth doesn't destroy the planet whatsoever for some unknown reason. Your point?

Uhm.. What are you trying to say her exactly?

Because sargeras couldn't destroy azeroth this entire clip is irellevant?

[TheFirstOnes]

Id very much classify psionics capable of conjuring storms with their minds as magic

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Uhm.. What are you trying to say her exactly?

Because sargeras couldn't destroy azeroth this entire clip is irellevant?

My point is that physics in WoW are literally fucked. With this logic, a big protoss beam might not even destroy the world.

[Biomega]

Id very much classify psionics capable of conjuring storms with their minds as magic

I guess Arthur C. Clarke comes into play here.

But in any event, WoW is INCREDIBLY unrealistic and overexaggerated in everything; SC is a little better but not by all that much. It's far from hard SF, and has plenty of implausibilities.

[Candy Cough]

My point is that physics in WoW are literally fucked. With this logic, a big protoss beam might not even destroy the world.

Okay so you're just going to say that no one can defeat azeroth because the physics are fucked

As gordon ramsay would put it, you're in denial. But have fun arguing with other people sir

[qwerty123456]

Only assumption we can make about WoW physics is that magic allows the manipulation of it. Even break realities.

Azeroth races may not have the tech of Starcraft but the powerful magic users it has can definitely closes any gap there is in term of fire power and resources.

The Draenei have Mechs and Spaceships with lasers. It they are comparable in power to Starcraft ones then magic would definitely close the gap. Also it depends on how much of the game is considered cannon cause if a random joe in the warcraft universe being hit by a mech while wearing leather or shit survives or a gnome being able to take and tank hits from Ragnaros then both Diablo and Starcraft universes are fucked.

Lack of magic? Clearly you've never played Starcraft and thus your understanding of SC weapons and such is negated.

All I need to say is: "Kerrigan."

Psychic powers aren't really considered magic but a pseudoscientific ability.

...Are you delusional? Maybe play starcraft before you say that?



Here a single protoss mothership evaporates all life on a zerg infested planet

It didn't destroy the planet from what I remember. Just the life on it. I don't even remember if it did any damage to the landscape. The wow equivalent weapon turned the zone it was used on into a desert as well as killing all the life. And warcraft life is more hardy and protected by a titan. It's even implied that Argus was protecting the broken for thousands of years even though he was warped and broken himself.

[Arikara]

Warcraft is a world with a whole lot of heroes. Compared to Diablo, who only really has a handful of absurdly powerful champions, it is not much of a contest. The Diablo PC should wipe the floor with a handful of Warcraft PCs and/or important lore figures, but there just aren't very many of them—they'd be nothing more than raid boss material at best. Even if the High Heavens decided to join in and a bunch of new Nephalem spontaneously showed up, there just aren't that many people from the Diablo franchise capable of putting up a fight compared to how many powerful characters are running around in Warcraft (which is really just a sign of WoW's recent awful writing, but thats offtopic).

Starcraft is a whole other beast. No chance whatsoever. Even setting aside the total-annihilation options of Kerrigan waltzing into a capital city alone and proceeding to absolutely destroy everything and everyone within without even breaking a sweat, protoss being able to wholesale destroy planets in a variety of ways, and terrans dropping a whole bunch of nukes everywhere, Warcraft characters just still would not be able to deal with something as mundane as a standard Zerg planetary attack. If you think the Legion was any kind of credible threat, think again. Zerglings might look weak and cute when viewed from above. On the ground, they're more like hyper-aggressive felhounds which—unlike felhounds—hit really damn hard and will surround you and tear you apart, and they come in the millions—and that's the absolute most basic unit. How is anything in Warcraft going to do anything to a fleet of Battlecruisers or a bunch of Colossi, let alone things like the Spear of Adun? To put some context down, it would not be at all unrealistic to expect a single Battlecruiser to send Deathwing fleeing, or do serious damage to a bunch of regular dragons. What is Azeroth going to do, shoot fireballs and moonfire at them? When we were facing a bunch of Legion spacecraft, which by all evidence did not possess anti-ground weaponry of any respectable capacity, Dalaran had to deus ex machina our asses by saving us with some nonsensical teleportation spell that sent them back to Argus. Even if that was a thing that would work against Starcraft's spacecraft—and it wouldn't, because that particular thing relied on messing with whatever magic the Legion were using to be there during the Legion prepatch—then the Starcraft spacecraft could still expect to just be able to return to Azeroth's coordinates within a couple of hours, maybe a couple days if they were somehow sent particularly far.

The level of destruction that is wreaked in any battle fought in Starcraft is just on another scale compared to Warcraft. There's no comparison, even without having to bring out the big guns.

It didn't destroy the planet from what I remember. Just the life on it. I don't even remember if it did any damage to the landscape. The wow equivalent weapon turned the zone it was used on into a desert as well as killing all the life. And warcraft life is more hardy and protected by a titan. It's even implied that Argus was protecting the broken for thousands of years even though he was warped and broken himself.

It didn't destroy the planet because it wasn't meant to. It was meant to ignite the atmosphere and kill all Zerg on the surface, which it did. If it had been meant to destroy the planet, it could and would have done so.

Real hard to survive when the world's entire air supply is lit aflame, however hardy conflict has made Azeroth's common soldiers and champions.

[TheFirstOnes]

Okay so you're just going to say that no one can defeat azeroth because the physics are fucked

As gordon ramsay would put it, you're in denial. But have fun arguing with other people sir

I mean, I clearly express that we've fought tons of things that could destroy the planet with literal ease, but go off I guess? Idk, just feels like you're the one who's in denial here. Hell, I have outerversal stuff no one's debunked yet...OF DEATHWING!!!!

So, gonna handle that one, buddy?

[RainEls]

Zerg would probably win. From a story perspective there were a lot of them and could get across the universe.

Burning Legion never invaded with an army of ships because then Azeroth would lose and Blizzard couldn't let that happen.

Assuming Blizzard isn't in charge of the story so Azeroth can lose the Zerg would actually invade with their fleshy ships and Azeroth would be swarmed and that'd be it.

[qwerty123456]

It didn't destroy the planet because it wasn't meant to. It was meant to ignite the atmosphere and kill all Zerg on the surface, which it did. If it had been meant to destroy the planet, it could and would have done so.

Real hard to survive when the world's entire air supply is lit aflame, however hardy conflict has made Azeroth's common soldiers and champions.

Considering they were able to create perma ocean breathing spells in seconds, Sargeras flaming sword wasn't capable of igniting the atmosphere of Azeroth, there is a Titan protecting the people of Azeroth, you can run around in shadowlands, the void, and the great beyond without needing air, I'd say it probably wouldn't be a problem. You can even still breath in Outland so I'm not even sure a purifier beam would be effective or if it did it should ignite the air in space near the ship first and explode it.

[TheFirstOnes]

"Even setting aside the total-annihilation options of Kerrigan waltzing into a capital city alone and proceeding to absolutely destroy everything and everyone within without even breaking a sweat" Archimonde destroyed Dalaran with sand. SAND...

S A N D !

"protoss being able to wholesale destroy planets in a variety of ways, and dropping a whole bunch of nukes everywhere" The Legion does the same thing casually. This is the 50th time I've said this...

"Zerglings might look weak and cute when viewed from above. On the ground, they're more like hyper-aggressive felhounds which—unlike felhounds—hit really damn hard and will surround you and tear you apart, and they come in the millions—and that's the absolute most basic unit. How is anything in Warcraft going to do anything to a fleet of Battlecruisers or a bunch of Colossi, let alone things like the Spear of Adun?" Probably in a similar way to how we beat the Legion? With Artifacts, godly powers, and shit? Also, pretty sure Fel Hounds consume magics, and are casually the size of Orcs, and the bigger ones are legit gigantic ass destructive hounds of chaos.

"When we were facing a bunch of Legion spacecraft, which by all evidence did not possess anti-ground weaponry of any respectable capacity" So...just going to ignore the massive beams the Legion spews out regularly?

"The level of destruction that is wreaked in any battle fought in Starcraft is just on another scale compared to Warcraft. There's no comparison, even without having to bring out the big guns." I mean, WoW's got outerversal to high outer scaling, but no one is ready for that talk yet.

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"Burning Legion never invaded with an army of ships because then Azeroth would lose and Blizzard couldn't let that happen." It literally happens in 7.3...

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In game, they legit just keep coming from within the skybox, endlessly, until we canonically defeat the Legion at Antorus in the timeline.

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Considering they were able to create perma ocean breathing spells in seconds, Sargeras flaming sword wasn't capable of igniting the atmosphere of Azeroth, there is a Titan protecting the people of Azeroth, you can run around in shadowlands, the void, and the great beyond without needing air, I'd say it probably wouldn't be a problem. You can even still breath in Outland so I'm not even sure a purifier beam would be effective or if it did it should ignite the air in space near the ship first and explode it.

Aren't Sargeras' flames like...eternal though? Dude's a walking constellation of flame. How tf can his blade not hard Azeroth's surface? Yeah, Azeroth's titan is tough, but someone like Deathwing shattered Azeroth in mere minutes by simply waking up.