Outland greens vs lvl60 epics.

[Bigbazz]

This is such an uniformed post, my eyes hurt.

Don't be silly, I also killed Arthas in full T6 m8, it's there in the screenshot.

[Diabloish]

The Chinese guild who got region first Illidan was still in mostly T3 when they got the kill so that should tell you when you'd be replacing T3...

Actually that screenshot shows maybe 2-3 people with like one piece of t3...

Also... you do realize how screenshots work right? You don’t have to be in the gear you downed the boss with to take a SS lol. I remember bringing my pvp along for every screenshot we had in tbc that doesn’t mean I used my pvp gear

[WaltherLeopold]

So as the title says, are lvl57-60 outland greens comparable to any lvl60 epics?

Depends on item slots, strong trinkets will last you all the way to prebis in most cases, weapons for almost all classes will be replaced while leveling or immediately at 70, notable exception being eye of nerub for hunters which is = prebis in bc, warrior t3 is very good even into karazhan, obviously replaceable but a lot of items are either only slightly better or = to dreadnaught gear.

In general, all caster gear is replaced unless it's trinkets, same with all melee dps gear, healers can easily heal t4 content with a mix of classic bis and tbc preraid bis and some notable examples, like kt shield is usable all the way into black temple, eye of the dead & blue dragon is bis/sidegrade for a lot of healers until black temple.

Most gear that rely on it being good because of % crit, hit, dodge and whatnot are going to be very diminished at 70, but strong on use trinkets and high ap/sp stats are what people are talking about when they say it's usable in tbc, like mark of the dawn/champion from kel'thuzad phylactery which stays relevant to sunwell for some classes. An exception to this is Styleen's Impeding Scarab, because avoidance alternatives in tbc are pretty rare, so a pure avoidance trinket as strong as this is functional for quite a while.

[Zyky]

I remember T3 was comparable to T4 and if you had a full set of T3 it was technically better than T4.

[Heathy]

enchanted t3 is pretty decent but ofc, helmets in tbc have meta sockets that will probably be bigger than zg enchanted t3. socketed gear in general is likely going to win on stats when socketed and enchanted.

some t3 seems like it has lasting potential, the trinkets in BWL are pretty good until t4 maybe even t5. styleens/dft/rejuv/nelth tear/kiss of the spider etc, trinkets comparable to this come from karazhan or from spending loads of badges on one.

the 2 piece set bonus on druid t3 could be useable throughout seeing as that proc is kinda unique and a dps increase for rogues and warriors. the sacrifice in stats from not using 2 pieces of 70 gear is probably worth the benefit of that setbonus. if you only have 1 resto druid they could use 2 peices of t3 all the way through bc for that proc on rejuv. and it would probably be a dps increase for the raid. if you made those two peices something like belt and bracers you could still use full t4-t5.

warrior t3 is almost as good as t4 but it doesn't take into consideration gems and enchants which make t4 better. because the tbc sets only have 2 and 4 pt set bonuses, it would still be possible to weave in some t3. some classes might benefit from their 2 or 4pt of t3 for a while, other specs or classes will probably benefit more from the raw stat increases on 70 gear. in the end it'll be 'is this set bonus better than xx stats' and in some cases the set bonus might be better than a few more stats.

[crazyman2]

TBC had a serious lack of good caster trinkets. Especially for warlocks (T5 had class specific trinkets and the warlock one was complete junk if you weren't playing felguard... and you shouldn't be playing felguard).

Both the sapphiron trinket and nefarian trinket would be worth keeping around. For the whole expansion.

The darkmoon card is kind of a no-brainer. After that, you had
1. Shifting Naaru Sliver off Muru (basically not available to anyone but top raiders)
2. Skull of Guldan off Illidan (I saw more warglaives drop than this trinket)
3. Hex Shrunken Head from ZA (This only dropped slightly more than the skull... and when it did, I didn't win the rolls)
4. Sextant of Unstable Currents from SSC (the 60 trinkets are arguably better than this, along with everything else.

So you're looking at likely 4th/5th BiS, with one of the preferred options being obscenely rare and another being obscenely difficult to get.

I used the nef trinket at level 80 until it was replaced with Dying Curse from Naxx pretty quickly before I got a heroic blue.

[Diabloish]

TBC had a serious lack of good caster trinkets. Especially for warlocks (T5 had class specific trinkets and the warlock one was complete junk if you weren't playing felguard... and you shouldn't be playing felguard).

Both the sapphiron trinket and nefarian trinket would be worth keeping around. For the whole expansion.

The darkmoon card is kind of a no-brainer. After that, you had
1. Shifting Naaru Sliver off Muru (basically not available to anyone but top raiders)
2. Skull of Guldan off Illidan (I saw more warglaives drop than this trinket)
3. Hex Shrunken Head from ZA (This only dropped slightly more than the skull... and when it did, I didn't win the rolls)
4. Sextant of Unstable Currents from SSC (the 60 trinkets are arguably better than this, along with everything else.

So you're looking at likely 4th/5th BiS, with one of the preferred options being obscenely rare and another being obscenely difficult to get.

I used the nef trinket at level 80 until it was replaced with Dying Curse from Naxx pretty quickly before I got a heroic blue.

I’m sorry what? You kept nef trinket until wotlk? Did you never do dungeons or raids ever? You get a lot of good options for trinkets at the very start. The badge trinket itself outclasses them all

[kranur]

Most of t3 and some aq40 won't be replaced by quest items, not even by the 70 quest chains. Maybe only by the ones with 3 gems. Very few pieces are almost as good as t4 gear if not on par.
You'll replace most of t3 with normal and heroic gear.

Most of t2 and below will be replaced before level 70 or shortly after.

- - - Updated - - -

TBC had a serious lack of good caster trinkets. Especially for warlocks (T5 had class specific trinkets and the warlock one was complete junk if you weren't playing felguard... and you shouldn't be playing felguard).

Both the sapphiron trinket and nefarian trinket would be worth keeping around. For the whole expansion.

The darkmoon card is kind of a no-brainer. After that, you had
1. Shifting Naaru Sliver off Muru (basically not available to anyone but top raiders)
2. Skull of Guldan off Illidan (I saw more warglaives drop than this trinket)
3. Hex Shrunken Head from ZA (This only dropped slightly more than the skull... and when it did, I didn't win the rolls)
4. Sextant of Unstable Currents from SSC (the 60 trinkets are arguably better than this, along with everything else.

So you're looking at likely 4th/5th BiS, with one of the preferred options being obscenely rare and another being obscenely difficult to get.

I used the nef trinket at level 80 until it was replaced with Dying Curse from Naxx pretty quickly before I got a heroic blue.

You played the game wrong ... Icon of the silver crescent, scyer's bloodgem and quag's eye says hello. All 3 available righ off the bat.

[Akka]

Either people considerably exagerate or the buff Blizzard made to the BC gear was much more encompassing (I only remember it changing lvl 70 epic gear), because I remember keeping at least two T2 pieces up to lvl 68-70 and only finding a better weapon in Netherstorm. But then it was during 2.0 patch so things might have changed afterward.

[WaltherLeopold]

I’m sorry what? You kept nef trinket until wotlk? Did you never do dungeons or raids ever? You get a lot of good options for trinkets at the very start. The badge trinket itself outclasses them all

He's not 100% correct but neither are you, the options are pretty limited, quagmirran is good, but if we get 45s icd version, nef trinket is better, if dmf cards which are 2.1 content arent out on launch, you are probably using silver crescent + tear until black temple.

You played the game wrong ... Icon of the silver crescent, scyer's bloodgem and quag's eye says hello. All 3 available righ off the bat.

Scryer's Bloodgem will incur cd with silver crescent, you won't be using both together unless you are really dry on hit, in which case you'd rather use tear over quagmirran's eye anyway.

[Mikah]

One thing I remember was the new weapon affixes, some of which were actually really good.

The lvl57-60 BoEs with 'of the bandit' or 'of the sorcerer' for example were in the range of T1/T2. People kept theirs just because of the enchant, but even the green BoEs ended up being better then anything before.

[Diabloish]

He's not 100% correct but neither are you, the options are pretty limited, quagmirran is good, but if we get 45s icd version, nef trinket is better, if dmf cards which are 2.1 content arent out on launch, you are probably using silver crescent + tear until black temple.



Scryer's Bloodgem will incur cd with silver crescent, you won't be using both together unless you are really dry on hit.

So if we happen to get a version of the game that has item version that are in later patches, but in that same version of the game it doesn’t release trinkets that are also in that patch...... then it will make tear better. So exactly how am I wrong if you had to cherry pick a version of the game that more than likely will never happen lol

[WaltherLeopold]

So if we happen to get a version of the game that has item version that are in later patches, but in that same version of the game it doesn’t release trinkets that are also in that patch...... then it will make tear better. So exactly how am I wrong if you had to cherry pick a version of the game that more than likely will never happen lol

The 25s icd version doesn't make it leaps and bounds better. And as I stated before, no one who is good at the game is gonna bat an eye if you pick an item with something that has like 50+ sp over quagmirran in equivalent stats.

He might have overstated tear's value, but you shouldn't undersell it.

[Master Factician]

Gear upgrades from good Classic pieces to early TBC pieces aren't as large as people make them out to be.

Karazhan ring VS Nefarian ring:



Heroic Durnholde neck VS C'thun neck:

[Diabloish]

The 25s icd version doesn't make it leaps and bounds better. And as I stated before, no one who is good at the game is gonna bat an eye if you pick an item with something that has like 50+ sp over quagmirran in equivalent stats.

He might have overstated tear's value, but you shouldn't undersell it.

I didn’t undersell it. I never said it was trash, I said it’s replaced instantly once you hit 70... which it is. Maybe you need to go back and read what I said. What I was being so ‘extreme’ about is how he said he kept it on going into wotlk, which something that is hilariously wrong when talking about how strong a trinket is.

[WaltherLeopold]

I didn’t undersell it. I never said it was trash, I said it’s replaced instantly once you hit 70... which it is. What I was being so ‘extreme’ about is how he said he kept it on going into wotlk, which something that is hilariously wrong when talking about how strong a trinket is.

And I am saying you won't necessarily replace it.

DMF cards were not out on classic launch, stands to reason tbc DMF cards might not be out on tbc launch, 2.1 is black temple patch, if you did not know.

Just to put it into perspective, you need 4-5 procs of quagmirran to see an effective dps increase. See how important the icd detail becomes?

[Diabloish]

And I am saying you won't necessarily replace it.

DMF cards were not out on classic launch, stands to reason tbc DMF cards might not be out on tbc launch, 2.1 is black temple patch, if you did not know.

Just to put it into perspective, you need 4-5 procs of quagmirran to see an effective dps increase. See how important the icd detail becomes?

And I am saying you won't necessarily replace it.

DMF cards were not out on classic launch, stands to reason tbc DMF cards might not be out on tbc launch, 2.1 is black temple patch, if you did not know.

Jesus Christ dude. Read the full context of what I said please. Of course if you don’t get those drops you might not replace it.

The guy said he NEVER replaced tear until wotlk because of how bad trinkets were. I said “did you never raid or do dungeons?” because you have options to replace it right away. Not even including t5, t6 etc etc.

I never said that everyone and their dog will drop every trinket they had the second they hit 70, I said the moment you hit 70 you have better trinkets available.

Why are you making this argument into something that it’s not? Lol

Also yes I know dark moon cards werent out at launch. But if that’s the case then quags eye is still better. You can say slightly better doesn’t matter but that’s not the point. My point was that it can get replaced right off the bat and this guy said you’ll keep it until wotlk unless you get lucky with t6 levels of gear

[WaltherLeopold]

Jesus Christ dude. Read the full context of what I said please. Of course if you don’t get those drops you might not replace it.

The guy said he NEVER replaced tear until wotlk because of how bad trinkets were. I said “did you never raid or do dungeons?” because you have options to replace it right away. Not even including t5, t6 etc etc.

I never said that everyone and their dog will drop every trinket they had the second they hit 70, I said the moment you hit 70 you have better trinkets available.

Why are you making this argument into something that it’s not? Lol

Also yes I know dark moon cards werent out at launch. But if that’s the case then quags eye is still better. You can say slightly better doesn’t matter but that’s not the point. My point was that it can get replaced right off the bat and this guy said you’ll keep it until wotlk unless you get lucky with t6 levels of gear

What are you even arguing here, i'm telling you that Quagmirran's Eye might not be better than Neltharion's Tear, just right out of the bat, I never said anything about items not dropping.

The real options in that slot is Silver Crescent (on use with a strong base sp stick), Scryer's Bloodgem which is effectively only there for its hit assuming DMF card is not out on tbc launch.

Neltharion's Tear is a middle ground, with a decent amount of +sp and ~1% equivalent hit rating on it, quagmirran's eye does not do anything in the first 100+ seconds of a fight and then it does nothing for another 100+ seconds.

[Diabloish]

What are you even arguing here, i'm telling you that Quagmirran's Eye might not be better than Neltharion's Tear, just right out of the bat, I never said anything about items not dropping.

The real options in that slot is Silver Crescent (on use with a strong base sp stick), Scryer's Bloodgem which is effectively only there for its hit.

Neltharion's Tear is a middle ground, with a decent amount of +sp and ~1% equivalent hit rating on it, quagmirran's eye does not do anything in the first 100 seconds of a fight.

Jesus fucking Christ man you need to read this because this is the last time I’m saying this. So please read and try to understand every single little word you can.

The guy said he kept tear up until wotlk because there were no trinket options outside of lucky drops in the t6 range.

I said at the very start of tbc you have options to replace it. I’m not even beginning to mention what you get in the t5 stages-t6 stages where you would 100% obviously replace it.

My original statement was that you should not be keeping nefs tear throughout the entirety of tbc because that’s ridiculous and mentioned that you can even replace it at the very start if you got good luck.

Now if you want to argue whether or not nefs eye is on par or better than quags eye is irrelevant because my original statement was in the context of the ENTIRETY of tbc.

But since this is the thing you really want to fuckin cling onto I’ll gladly talk this over with you as well.

What on earth makes you think you need 4-5 procs of a trinket that gives you 300+ sp for 6 seconds on a 25 sec icd in order to be better than a trinket with 7 better sp and 16 hit?

And what is your math that I literally does NOTHING in the first 100 seconds?

[WaltherLeopold]

But since this is the thing you really want to fuckin cling onto I’ll gladly talk this over with you as well.

What on earth makes you think you need 4-5 procs of a trinket that gives you 300+ sp for 6 seconds on a 25 sec icd in order to be better than a trinket with 7 better sp and 16 hit?

And what is your math that I literally does NOTHING in the first 100 seconds?

Because that's how haste works, it doesn't increase your damage, it increases the amount of casts you can do in the same window. If you overcap that window (boss duration), it is 100% wasted procs, if you do not reach that window (i.e not proc enough times to give you a "free" shadow bolt) you have not gained any damage.