Guilds dying because of Castle Nathria?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Lol, and this is exactly why i dont understand why people even bother watching streamers.

The only people i know that waste their time with that, are simply people that were forced into a lifestyle they dont really like and had to leave their gaming hobby behind so they take their fix through watching someone else, or people that no matter what age group we were, they always were terrible at any game we tried, no matter how much we tried to help them through.

I really dont get it, unless you are in the category of the above.

It basically is like all media. Watch it if you like. Watch it if you feel the need. If you don't then don't watch it. Everything will be ok either way. I personally am not big on just watching TV shows randomly during the day. Some people are though and I don't really have a problem with them doing so. Hey, they like it.. so no big deal. Some people like watching the news every night.. hey.. more power to them. Other people like to watch Preach talk about WoW. Perfectly normal. Then people that watch any of these things like to discuss them. When you consider Preach talks about WoW.. and this is a pretty heavily tilted WoW message board you kind put one and one together and figure people probably will talk about Preach and other talking heads here. If you don't really want to talk about them or whatever the best suggestion is to see that is what a thread is subjected about and hitting the back button. I do it with tons of threads on here every day. I mean it is that simple. You see it is something you aren't interested in and just don't show interest in it. I find it a lot more strange that people feel the need to inform everyone "I am not interested in this topic so much that I am announcing my lack of interested by saying I don't even know what it is people are interested in because I do not have interest" levels of bullshit. It well over half this thread already. Why? I am here saying this because I find the topic interesting weather Preach is right, wrong, or whatever. It doesn't mean I think he is god. Or that he is always right. Or that he runs the community. It just means he talks about a subject I like to listen to and well.. I listen to it from time to time. Why do people that do not care so interested is what has me asking myself what the fuck man? Do you get it? It is just kind of loopy to me.

[Otimus]

This problem comes up with every expansion, and I think the fundamental core is always the same. People want to gussy it up by saying things like the quantity of drops, difficulty, drama, and such, but I think, and have always thought it's one fundamental thing: People like the idea of raiding. People don't actually like raiding. This leads to hopes and optimism before they can, then actually doing it and realizing they don't like what it actually entails. Then there's the realization that about 75% of WoW is slanted towards it. Rinse and repeat every dang cycle.

[kaintk]

i remember a time where guild was dying because the boss was really too hard (guild killer boss)

but now guild die of boredom, hardcore gamer try to convince us that shadowland is not a bfa 2.0 but it is, slowly peoples are quitting and guild dying because the content is the same, boring wq, time gated content, thorgast is exploraiton island 2.0 after 2 week its was already boring. etc..etc..

blizzard dont have it anymore

justhire some real people who know how to make new quest line for each 1-2 week, implement them in the game , event like, now its just about doing some quest, waiting 1-2 week , doing 2 quest, wating 1-2 week, doing 1-2 new quest etc...

anyway, for people defending the actual contents, im sorry for you

[TheLucky1]

Ah this topic again..
Oh and also the same responses as every year trying to reason for their own agenda.

Guilds disband since the beginning of the game for pretty much the same reasons as now...

But don't worry, next year and the year after that we'll have a similar topic about it with very similar nonsensical answers.

[kaminaris]

Its a mix of things, but its an extra icing on the cake i mean, its not 100% loot issue, but the new reward structure, makes weaker players/weaker guilds exposed.

There is no longer gear flowing from low M+ to carry their asses to clear HC easily.

The combination, causes resentment and distraught.

Yep, a friends that were able to clear heroic in MoP (when mythic wasn't a thing) in 3 months, struggled hard to even finish raid in time in latest expansions. So no only that but also visible difference in difficulty. Compare mechanics of SoO to castle or heck even legion/BfA raids. At least gear could carry people if they went thru that extra mile. And it also make reclears valuable so that nobody suddenly want to pass every boss they killed once or got loot from.

This change hit really hard weaker guilds while top ones just bypassed it with monnies.

[LazuOG]

Yup. And, if it weren't them, it'd be community moderators from MMO-Champion or other community sites. Or gaming journalists.

Do you remember back in earlier expansions when streaming wasn't nearly as popular? We still had interviews and other content on Wowhead and other community sites. If streaming died today, we'd still have interviews and other content.

So, aren't you saying that YouTube'rs like preach are currently more relevant than gaming journalists and mmo forum moderators? If so, you are right.

At least with certain popular figurines in the wow streaming and content creation world I know what their motivations are and that they actually play the game to its fullest. They put their face, lives, and to some extent career behind their opinion and that makes them infinitely more relatable, believable, and genuine than some semi anonymous, no-name forum keyboard warrior, or a journalist that has to cover a variety of games in order to make a proper living, effectively robbing them of the time to play the game as in-depth as they would have to in order to form a qualified opinion.

The major issue I see with people, especially on mmoc, who hate on streaming and yt personalities influence on the game, is that they somehow believe the supporters of said content creators just parrot what they are being told and not a single one of then would have come to the same conclusion hadn't they been influenced by someone. This would mean that in-game issues that are brought up by these people don't actually exist, and are simply community made, which is almost degenerate, might I say.

In most cases these content creators are a conduit for people that already thought about the state of the game in a similar way, and are happy that they are not alone with their opinion. Also, think about how competitive the market of streaming and online content creation is. Do you really think people like preach would get away with spewing nonsensical issues about the game that objectively don't exist without being dismantled by every other content creator there is ? Also, their takes are mostly obvious and spot-on. I have personally never watched a critical wow content video without having had the same kind of thoughts before myself.

Content creators are ultimately good for the game, and they push blizzard towards being better at delivering quality content. They are the critical outlet you, as a player, needs in order to make your experience better in the long run. Do some people disagree with the objective shortcomings certain content creators highlight? Sure. There are always some people that see things differently. Does that make said objective issues less true? Not in the slightest.

Tl;DR: Hating on content creators out of principle is a boomer-menatlity-driven witchhunt, and, if anything, a warning sign that a person who holds these views might be unable of taking part in rational conversation.

[potis]

Yep, a friends that were able to clear heroic in MoP (when mythic wasn't a thing) in 3 months, struggled hard to even finish raid in time in latest expansions. So no only that but also visible difference in difficulty. Compare mechanics of SoO to castle or heck even legion/BfA raids. At least gear could carry people if they went thru that extra mile. And it also make reclears valuable so that nobody suddenly want to pass every boss they killed once or got loot from.

This change hit really hard weaker guilds while top ones just bypassed it with monnies.

I dont think buying BoE gear helps with bypassing anything, its not like full items slot boes drop.

Reclears -are- valuable now considering how scarce gear over 210 is.

Its just not like previous expansions where the scaling stopped at +10 at the start of the expansion, if this was BFA or Legion, M+ would end at 10, and it would be dropping 220 ilvl, which would have made Nathria irrelevant.

Now that +10 is same as Normal raid, people are showing their weaker side, clearing a +10 is still easy for the average "raider", a +15, not so much at the moment, so it reflects into their raiding, exposing them.

And generally anyone talking about things done before Legion when the game changed immensely end up with the same discussion, "They used to be good", nope, they were still bad, game design carried them, someone doesnt magically forget how to be good at WoW.

The guild i took over (they quit en masse since Legion was too much for them) years ago was exactly as you describe, they somehow cleared HC MoP/WoD? raids, and they were so insanely, insanely weak players it baffled my mind how, but clearing a raid 10 days before the next patch, 10 ilvls above it, and with so many nerfs after, isnt "clearing the raid".

[LazuOG]

But thats the thing, most YT of any game, are literal trash, not in the sense of playstyle, but trash quality.

Most of them just repeat what they read on a forum or on here, or reddit, to get clicks, which means $$, they dont even understand half the shit they are talking about, and yeah, echo chambers after that.

As example, Preach, didnt even know who he was until mid-BFA if it wasnt for a friend to mention him, although i had read the name around here before, and i have never watched a full video, but its clearly obvious what he does.

Despite having the skill to play at a high level, most of his content are trash, pure clickbait trash, made him famous and money so congrats for that, but degrading your quality..Eh.

I just cant understand how people are so damn dumb to not understand basic things like that in 2021.

As example, Max from Limit is making videos now, thats actual guides/quality shit, thats literally the Rank 1 player trying to teach others and i havent even seen any, they just popped up, i dont even have to see them, i know they are decent.

But i guess, anything is like the WoW skill level, tiny % of skill jumps, leading to a massive number of trashness, as it reflects on YT, shouldnt surprise me.

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[Belloc]

Tl;DR: Hating on content creators out of principle is a boomer-menatlity-driven witchhunt, and, if anything, a warning sign that a person who holds these views might be unable of taking part in rational conversation.

Yeah, I don't think that there's a need for a rational conversation when it comes to streamers telling their followers to harass people they see riding store mounts, nor do I see any reason to consider store mounts to be an issue worth complaining about. I will never consider people who behave that way to be relevant or desirable to the game's community.

[probert]

the last few expansions have been weak (WoD, BFA, now shadowlands) but the one saving grace had always been good dungeons and particularly raids.

now even Ion's special sauce has expired -- the raiding in CN is buggy, tedious, gimmicky garbage. I haven't even tried mythic but to endure that BS you have to be a particular type of sadist it looks like. what's funny watching these guilds slowly shut down is that there's not even anger or drama involved... just a general acknowledgement its not fun anymore.

now whether the raiding design is a failure because of experimentation, COVID constraints, reduced budget, or simply reinventing the wheel too many times I couldn't say. but its clear no one is enjoying the raiding scene, and mythic+ dungeons has a similar morose ambivalence.

[kaminaris]

I dont think buying BoE gear helps with bypassing anything, its not like full items slot boes drop.

Reclears -are- valuable now considering how scarce gear over 210 is.

Its just not like previous expansions where the scaling stopped at +10 at the start of the expansion, if this was BFA or Legion, M+ would end at 10, and it would be dropping 220 ilvl, which would have made Nathria irrelevant.

Now that +10 is same as Normal raid, people are showing their weaker side, clearing a +10 is still easy for the average "raider", a +15, not so much at the moment, so it reflects into their raiding, exposing them.

And generally anyone talking about things done before Legion when the game changed immensely end up with the same discussion, "They used to be good", nope, they were still bad, game design carried them, someone doesnt magically forget how to be good at WoW.

The guild i took over (they quit en masse since Legion was too much for them) years ago was exactly as you describe, they somehow cleared HC MoP/WoD? raids, and they were so insanely, insanely weak players it baffled my mind how, but clearing a raid 10 days before the next patch, 10 ilvls above it, and with so many nerfs after, isnt "clearing the raid".

You realize top guilds were 220 in first 2 weeks? Of course BoE allowed them to bypass that. Otherwise they wouldn't be even close to 220.

Reclears are not valuable, heck even first clears are not since its better to just push PVP, buy boe and call it a day. Once you get the item you don't want to kill that boss again. Not to mention there is not too much valuable loot inside raids.

And no it didn't made CN irrelevant in BfA in legion where dropping high ilvl loot. In fact it was far easier to assemble group on heroic in 2 last expansions.

It's not "They used to be good", they used to have less mechanics and be generally more forgiving so worse players had easier time even WITHOUT TF.

[Lochton]

I noticed this vid from preach and it's quite sad. Even though he's been in this guild for a while it was during this raid cycle that they ended up stopping raiding.

What's blizz going to do about dying guilds? When is the new raid going to be out?

Honestly...

... If your guild dies due to a raid, then it wasn't that strong in the first place.

A new raid won't fix a dying guild.

Guilds die across multiple games every week, nothing new. And new ones are formed every week, nothing new.

[potis]

You realize top guilds were 220 in first 2 weeks? Of course BoE allowed them to bypass that. Otherwise they wouldn't be even close to 220.

Reclears are not valuable, heck even first clears are not since its better to just push PVP, buy boe and call it a day. Once you get the item you don't want to kill that boss again. Not to mention there is not too much valuable loot inside raids.

And no it didn't made CN irrelevant in BfA in legion where dropping high ilvl loot. In fact it was far easier to assemble group on heroic in 2 last expansions.

It's not "They used to be good", they used to have less mechanics and be generally more forgiving so worse players had easier time even WITHOUT TF.

How are we talking about top guilds now? o.O The discussion is about the average player guilds and how guilds are dying

[Skavee]

When mythic raiding there are 2 things that I look forward to. First is the satisfaction of downing that particular boss. The second one is getting a reward appropriated to the difficulty that makes my character stronger. With how scarce loot is I honestly cannot bother with n2 anymore.

[LazuOG]

Yeah, I don't think that there's a need for a rational conversation when it comes to streamers telling their followers to harass people they see riding store mounts, nor do I see any reason to consider store mounts to be an issue worth complaining about. I will never consider people who behave that way to be relevant or desirable to the game's community.

What you just said isn't hating out of principle though, it's a specific reason and you are talking about someone veeeeery specific. So idk what you quote me for.

[Ashina]

Shit raid in a terrible snoozefest of an expansion. Not surprised real gamers give up and all you'll end up with is the egirls, their simps and the pet battlers. 99% of you cucks will not sniff Mythic Denathrius before summer, you wouldn't understand.
Infracted

[Magneto]

Shit raid in a terrible snoozefest of an expansion. Not surprised real gamers give up and all you'll end up with is the egirls, their simps and the pet battlers. 99% of you cucks will not sniff Mythic Denathrius before summer, you wouldn't understand.

Harsh but true!

[8bithamster]

Shit raid in a terrible snoozefest of an expansion. Not surprised real gamers give up and all you'll end up with is the egirls, their simps and the pet battlers. 99% of you cucks will not sniff Mythic Denathrius before summer, you wouldn't understand.

You do realize your lfr clear isn't the same as mythic right?

[Stormwolf64]

Guilds are dying and people are unsubbing simply because Blizzard has not found the exact formula of lengthy fun. Game is a fucking blast until all storylines are done and all you're left with is repetition. They've not yet found a way to distribute some content to make it worth continuing.

[infinitemeridian]

Part of the problem is that the raid itself is not very good. The only bosses with mildly interesting / unique mechanics are Shriekwing, Xymox, Denathrius and maybe Sludgefist. Everything else is just boring rehashes of previous mechanics or just plain unfun (SLG). On top of that, the environment is pretty barebones and there's barely any decorations or setpieces apart from the dance hall. It's just boring brown rooms with nothing in them except some red windows / backdrops occasionally.

Oh hey, did I mention the colors brown / red? On top of that, the raid is overtuned, barely drops any gear, and has few cosmetic items worth going for. I guess for an opening raid, it's more difficult / longer than others, but I felt like the brevity of Ulduar / Highmaul was good. Challenging, but not too challenging. Interesting art design and encounters etc.