will TBC bring us back the non toxic community and non min/max culture?

[Weeps]

I consider TBC to be one of the finest expansions.

Min/max definitely existed. If you just joined wow by TBC, you won't realize much of it. There will be even more min/maxing with gear in TBC.

I don't remember any world buffs or the like for raiding. If there were, they will be utilized even moreso.

TBC is a great expansion. The dungeons are TOP NOTCH. Raids were fun as heck too.

[Kathandira]

I thought of something. Min/Maxing in TBC is less of a concern than in Vanilla. In Vanilla you had to chase particular items since items were a bit of a mess. When you look at gear while leveling, you end up with some incompatible stats. Through Vanilla they began to get a feel for what stats were sought after by most players, and began releasing gear in Raids that was more optimized. In TBC, you see far more straightforward stats on gear.

Of course i'm not saying Min/Maxing doesn't exist in TBC, just that it is a bit more plain to see what stats and gear is best for your character.

[blankfaced]

I've seen people flip out over the covenants people chose in HEROIC DUNGEONS. The games community to it's very core is toxic and always has been. The people that think it never was toxic were naive then and are blindly nostalgic now.

[Diabloish]

I've seen people flip out over the covenants people chose in HEROIC DUNGEONS. The games community to it's very core is toxic and always has been. The people that think it never was toxic were naive then and are blindly nostalgic now.

Back in real tbc it wasn’t near AS toxic in terms of min/maxing. I will say tho it was probably worse in terms of things like racial slurs etc in general. So the overall toxicity was probably similar but the min/max culture was for sure a lot less present.

[Echocho]

The biggest toxic part of the private server community was the vanilla one. These are the people who believe that the game was completely ruined by the time TBC launched and that vanilla is the best wow ever was or ever will be. A lot of them are right wing extremists so a lot of the racism, homophobia etc in Classic comes from there.

If they stay on classic a lot of the toxicity could disappear in TBC.

[iosdeveloper]

i really hope they make it a WoW Classic, TBC Classic and retail in the launcher
i dreamt of being able to switch betweet BC and vanilla

[Rageadon]

Why do you complain about people you dont want to play with because the solution is very easy, dont play with them, make ur own grp and guild, say it a casual run/casual guild

[T-34]

Why do you complain about people you dont want to play with because the solution is very easy, dont play with them, make ur own grp and guild, say it a casual run/casual guild

For a certain group of players it requires too much effort to search for like-minded people. Complaining is much easier.

[Zyky]

Looking at this whole 'toxic' vs 'non-toxic' talk, I'm just not sure things have really changed that much. For sure in the infancy of Vanilla WoW when people didn't really know what was good, you had a lot of open minded people. That all changed when people realized what was good, and what uh, wasn't good. When I read people screaming about toxic culture in WoW, what that really reads to me (more often than not) is that you should bend to my idea of what's fun at the expense of your own. You don't want to raid with my balance druid or retribution paladin in classic WoW? Yeah, this community is fucking trash and toxic. You won't let me tank as an enhancement shaman or protection paladin in classic WoW? Yeah, toxic shit community not getting on board with my idea of fun. In a way, isn't it ironic that these people screaming about toxicity are likely the most toxic people themselves? They're just as 'bad' as the people excluding them, by wanting everybody to include them. It's like those stories when you were younger where some kids mom talks to your own, and your mom pressures you into playing with that kid even though you don't want too.

See this paragraph shows how little you know about the problems of Classic while also showing how little you know about what the game was like Vanilla-early Cata. It also shows how little you know about mmo's outside of WoW, such as FFXIV, and how they don't have a toxic culture because the community cuts the cancer out fast because they strive to be good people and good mentors.

- - - Updated - - -

The "GOGOGO" is a staple of the modern MMO. This is evidenced by Classic be "Infected" with Min/Max and "GOGOGO"

False it's a staple in only WoW. This is not present in ESO, FFXIV, or GW2

[Yizu]

Yes they existed but wasn't THAT common like now in retail.

Are you sure we played the same game? Pretty sure tbc was the "bring the class, not the player" expansion.

[Diabloish]

Are you sure we played the same game? Pretty sure tbc was the "bring the class, not the player" expansion.

How is this considered min/maxing? Raid comps/setup has nothing to do with min maxing lol. You can min/max without this style of raid setups and you can go without it as well.

[chrisnumbers]

It's not the game that makes people toxic, it's you. If you think you're entitled to success, and you deserve success just because you're you, then you're toxic. But there is hope. You can change if you want to.

[Yizu]

How is this considered min/maxing? Raid comps/setup has nothing to do with min maxing lol. You can min/max without this style of raid setups and you can go without it as well.

LOL min maxing in tbc includes raid comp, like the new recruit having this talent so others wont have to so they can minmax. Or arcane mages and boomkin requires an spriest to function. Or having a space goat in your group. I can think of alot more scenarios where raid comp affects minmaxing

[Biglog]

The Internet as a whole is much more toxic than it was back 15 years ago when TBC released. An expansion isn't going to change that.

As for min/maxing, there was plenty of that back 15 years ago in TBC so that definitely won't go away. Anyone that thinks there wasn't min/maxing in TBC didn't play back then. Heck if anything TBC might have been the peak of min/maxing in wow of any expansion. Profs, Aldor/Scryers, rep grind choices, etc. were very set choices for min/maxing raiders at the time. And raids were much less forgiving for freestyle choices.

[Diabloish]

LOL min maxing in tbc includes raid comp, like the new recruit having this talent so others wont have to so they can minmax. Or arcane mages and boomkin requires an spriest to function. Or having a space goat in your group. I can think of alot more scenarios where raid comp affects minmaxing

Do you understand the difference between someone capitalizing on a system min/maxing it to death, and simply just a system existing that can easily be avoided?

By your logic, shadowlands isn’t as min/max heavy because the Meta for raid comps is different.

[crusadernero]

Do you remember the time before classic launched? Where everyone and theyre mother said they couldnt wait to finally step into azeroth again and just go out in the world. Questing, farming, some wpvp, bump into strangers here and there, enjoy the zones. All the while working towards reaching level 60. Taking your time.

Especially streamers taunted this every chance they had. Said retail had lost its soul, it was only min/max focus and instanced content. World was dead blalbla.

Then classic launched. Soon enough people figured out it was better spending 4890357298 hours in SM with 3 mages and do mass AOE pulls. Suddenly the world didnt matter so much, it was about reaching 60 in the most effective way. Gone was the journey, in came the min/max.

Then raiding started. Not only did you need full BiS raid gear for a HARD raid like MC, you needed a stack of world buffs to. So there you are enjoying the journey, flying from place to place to get a world buff only so the REALLY HARD raid MC can be cleared 10 minutes faster.

I remember several streamers said they regretted doing the first leveling only in dungeons just so they could reach 60 quickly. They missed out on whats supposed to be classic strengths, the journey to 60.

BC will no doubt be riddled with the same stuff. You better be ready to grind your arse off the first week(s) to get max lvl, gear, rep, attunments etc in order. There will be meta classes, there will be minimum requierments for simple content(cause min/max). Thats how the community wants it to be.

[Kathandira]

Do you remember the time before classic launched? Where everyone and theyre mother said they couldnt wait to finally step into azeroth again and just go out in the world. Questing, farming, some wpvp, bump into strangers here and there, enjoy the zones. All the while working towards reaching level 60. Taking your time.

Yes. And my first character hit 60 yesterday. Just Questing, running dungeons with random people, and just enjoying Azeroth.

But how did you play Classic?

[Dequanacus]

I played back then and those people existed but because toxic wasn't as much of a buzzword, they were just called elitists. Either term being used here is just synonymous with 'people who want to optimize their end game' and as far as anyone having a bad experience with people who want that, you can just as easily find horrible people that you can associate with any other entire community or way of thinking (like the kind of person that writes off a whole community as toxic)
My guild back then wanted to do what ever was most optimal for clearing content and was selective of people in that regard, we also had a blast, all got along, and it was a great time.

[Tidemoo]

I played in Inner Sanctum and SK Gaming throughout TBC and had a pretty good run, getting a lot of top 5 kills, some top 3 and even missing out on a world-first due to half the UK losing Virgin Media Internet and delaying us for over an hour on our Brutalis and Felmyst kills (when we did get back online we killed it 10 mins after SK so would have easily smashed worlds first hehe).

Anyway, min/max culture for us at least was in effect since the AQ gates opened, I don't really remember any toxicity since alts and out of guild raids and so on never really happened. This time around I would expect a huge increase in both, that's just how the game and mentality has evolved. Get a nice guild and forget the rest .

I first stopped playing wow when I got a job at Blizzard which was just at the start of WOTLK as an Operations Manager and I remember reports of ninja looting, verbal abuse/threats, and other stuff going through the roof. Perhaps I had rose-tinted glasses on in TBC but I can't remember it being that bad in TBC.

Eitherway, easy to avoid if you don't mind getting a guild, but, always dicks about no matter what.

[Kathandira]

I played in Inner Sanctum and SK Gaming throughout TBC and had a pretty good run, getting a lot of top 5 kills, some top 3 and even missing out on a world-first due to half the UK losing Virgin Media Internet and delaying us for over an hour on our Brutalis and Felmyst kills (when we did get back online we killed it 10 mins after SK so would have easily smashed worlds first hehe).

Anyway, min/max culture for us at least was in effect since the AQ gates opened, I don't really remember any toxicity since alts and out of guild raids and so on never really happened. This time around I would expect a huge increase in both, that's just how the game and mentality has evolved. Get a nice guild and forget the rest .

I first stopped playing wow when I got a job at Blizzard which was just at the start of WOTLK as an Operations Manager and I remember reports of ninja looting, verbal abuse/threats, and other stuff going through the roof. Perhaps I had rose-tinted glasses on in TBC but I can't remember it being that bad in TBC.

Eitherway, easy to avoid if you don't mind getting a guild, but, always dicks about no matter what.

I can say there was plenty of Ninja Looting in Vanilla and TBC. But since the game had server communities at the time, they were publicly shamed, and mass ignored.

Definitely one of the things I love about Classic. You build, maintain, and protect your reputation. It is your choice how you want to be received by your server community, but if that choice is to be a jerk, then you sleep in the bed you made.