LFR is a superfluous, meaningless difficulty

[TheRevenantHero]

Thank you so much for this. I'm tired of explaining to folks why LFR is necessary, why I do it over normal, and why it needs to stay. This basically sums it up.

- - - Updated - - -


What about folks who struggle to get into normal raids, or who might not be the best players and would probably get kicked 15 minutes after the raid is formed and started? Why can't we have a place to go to?

You're trying to reason with a gatekeeper. People like them believe that if you're not part of a guild or established raid group, you don't deserve to do content.

[Wuusah]

What about folks who struggle to get into normal raids, or who might not be the best players and would probably get kicked 15 minutes after the raid is formed and started? Why can't we have a place to go to?

There are plenty of guilds who go through normal raids with 1-2k dps players and have a great time with that.

I think LFR is fine and shouldn't be removed but it pushes casual players into this guildless playstyle. Everything you do you can do solo or just by pressing a button and getting ported into the content with some randos. It's not even close to the experience you'd have by playing in a casual guild where meet up once a week to do the normal raid, get onto discord and just make jokes all the time.

[crusadernero]

What's wrong with mythic?

Nothing, but % of people doing it dont really justifies making big and grand raids. So in a way, mythic raiding ppl need LFR in the game. Without LFR, there would be much smaller or worse raids coming out.

[Cup of Tea]

What about folks who struggle to get into normal raids, or who might not be the best players and would probably get kicked 15 minutes after the raid is formed and started? Why can't we have a place to go to?

I really can’t agree enough.

I used to raid regularly, used to be MT but times change and I can’t commit to that sort of thing anymore. My guild raids several days a week but they have long started by the time I get online. So if I want to raid I use LFR. If it were removed I just wouldn’t raid, I’d wait (as I have in the past) and just solo the raid a expansion or two down the line. No way I would step into PUG normals.

[XDurionX]

What's wrong with mythic?

Nothing, except is eats up most of the ressources for the least people participating.

[Azerate]

There are plenty of guilds who go through normal raids with 1-2k dps players and have a great time with that.

I think LFR is fine and shouldn't be removed but it pushes casual players into this guildless playstyle. Everything you do you can do solo or just by pressing a button and getting ported into the content with some randos. It's not even close to the experience you'd have by playing in a casual guild where meet up once a week to do the normal raid, get onto discord and just make jokes all the time.

It doesn't "push" anyone anywhere.

There's a lot of players who will never, under no circumstances, take part in organized raiding / player made PUGs. Removing LFR will not magically make them search for custom groups for raids. It will make them not see the content.

Plus, the jump of difficulty between lfr and normal is actually significant. People who are capable of heroic and mythic might not see it, but that's definitely the case.

[Okacz]

Tried LFR with an alt a few days ago, was positively suprised.

The fights arent a slogfest like they used to be, they move pretty much on the pace of normal. Mechanics are well represented, while the right ones are cut to make LFG runs smoother. While the gear ain't the best, it can reward Legendary recipes or Renown for catch-up. Overall, it was pretty fun, at least compared to literally ANY iteration of LFR in the past, where it was either lolzerg, stuff too hard for people it was designed for, or just a drag.

I'd say that for catch-up purposes, or just to see the raid if you don't have time to normal/hc, it's pretty good.

[crusadernero]

You're trying to reason with a gatekeeper. People like them believe that if you're not part of a guild or established raid group, you don't deserve to do content.

As retail wow are now, its more or less like any other game were you can choose what difficulty to take part in.

Whatever your choice is, it has no effect on your playstyle at all. If you take storymode and your friend takes veteran(hardest), it makes no difference.

So I dont understand why ppl are upset about LFR.

[Glordif]

Nothing, except is eats up most of the ressources for the least people participating.

Only that it doesn't. The raids are being designed anyway for Normal and Heroic, and especially from this tier we know Blizzard prioritises testing Mythic difficult if not last then certainty towards the end of the development cycle.
I also hear that if LFR didn't exist then we wouldn't have raids? Really? What other great content do Blizzard have just waiting until raiding becomes unpopular. Island Expeditions, Torghast, Warzones?

The fact is raiding normal, heroic and mythic is the bread and butter of the game and it always has been. They could justify it when fewer people did it, and they can justify it now. Without raiding, World of Warcraft would begin to noticeably die.

As for LFR it is a pointless meaningless difficulty. I know people who only play LFR and even they don't like it. It's not the difficulty they can't stand, but the constant wipes and toxicity that follows. A wing of LFR can take longer than actually raiding with less progress.

The solution isn't to completely destroy it but to remake it. Make it solo content like a story mode. The difficultly can be tuned to one player of bronze or at most silver proving ground difficulty. Let is show players the story and teach them about their class, and how mechanics work to help them become better players with the reward of loot at the end.

[Segus1992]

People miss the point. The purpose of LFR is not to gear up, it'a purpose is for everyone to see the raid and conclude the storylines without having to rely on youtube as not everyone can commit to a raid schedule .. and pugs ... well are just toxic to the causals.

You mean leeches who expect to be taught? There are raids that go in without knowledge, but it's usually not those raids the casuals join, because those raids are only casuals and they tend to fail very early.

You can be a casual and still know what you're doing. Even looking up rough tactics for every boss only takes a few minutes.

[Tadkins]

You're trying to reason with a gatekeeper. People like them believe that if you're not part of a guild or established raid group, you don't deserve to do content.

Dealt with too many of those types throughout my time in WoW. People like me who don't have many friends and who have trouble finding lasting guilds just don't have a place in the game apparently.

There are plenty of guilds who go through normal raids with 1-2k dps players and have a great time with that.

I think LFR is fine and shouldn't be removed but it pushes casual players into this guildless playstyle. Everything you do you can do solo or just by pressing a button and getting ported into the content with some randos. It's not even close to the experience you'd have by playing in a casual guild where meet up once a week to do the normal raid, get onto discord and just make jokes all the time.

Not everyone has an easy time with guilds. I've struggled for a long time to find one where I could fit in. Particularly one that would accept I just don't really like voice chat/discord all that much. I just want to kick back, drink a beer and listen to some music while doing stuff in the game.

I really can’t agree enough.

I used to raid regularly, used to be MT but times change and I can’t commit to that sort of thing anymore. My guild raids several days a week but they have long started by the time I get online. So if I want to raid I use LFR. If it were removed I just wouldn’t raid, I’d wait (as I have in the past) and just solo the raid a expansion or two down the line. No way I would step into PUG normals.

Same here, it's fun when you get a chance to do it, and I have before. It's just not always an opportunity that is available.

If not for LFR, I'd probably just look up the lore on Youtube while unsubscribed. That means Blizzard gets no money.

[Segus1992]

Tried LFR with an alt a few days ago, was positively suprised.

The fights arent a slogfest like they used to be, they move pretty much on the pace of normal. Mechanics are well represented, while the right ones are cut to make LFG runs smoother. While the gear ain't the best, it can reward Legendary recipes or Renown for catch-up. Overall, it was pretty fun, at least compared to literally ANY iteration of LFR in the past, where it was either lolzerg, stuff too hard for people it was designed for, or just a drag.

I'd say that for catch-up purposes, or just to see the raid if you don't have time to normal/hc, it's pretty good.

Yep I agree, the way LFR is currently is pretty good. Not too hard, not too easy, not too slow. Some fights require some tactics which becomes a drag when neither of the tanks speak English, but balancing the game around the lowest denominator is worse.

[Beuargh]

"usual LFR rent"

then don't do LFR bro.... you are not the first with that topic and it's always the same arguments and answers. you don't see the point of doing lfr? don't do it. it's most likely still the most popular raid mode out there, and those people doing LFR don't give a single fuck if you don't see the point or don't like it. you don't get it? then forget about it and go get that higher ilvl gear if that's what you are after. leave it alone and do something else FFS ... trim your own fat for exemple ?? if the endgame is too bloated for you I have a few exemple of stuff they could trim before touching LFR. obviously it's not your endgame and the good news is that you can ignore it!! why don't you do just that?

[TheRevenantHero]

As retail wow are now, its more or less like any other game were you can choose what difficulty to take part in.

Whatever your choice is, it has no effect on your playstyle at all. If you take storymode and your friend takes veteran(hardest), it makes no difference.

So I dont understand why ppl are upset about LFR.

Because gatekeepers insist people play the game the way THEY want people to play it. So if you're not playing the game the way they are, you don't deserve to see content.

[Flurryfang]

seems lots of people are playing LFR so that's pretty strong evidence that it has meaning to a lot of players
LFR was made so that casuals could experience the story and to give them an idea of what raiding was like to decide whether or not it was for them. it has been extremely successful at both

All elements of content, which can be easily acessable and has a gear reward, is being played a lot - says nothing about how good it is or how meaningful it is to people.


I think the idea, that LFR is there for the casuals to "experience" raiding, is a false statement at this point. If that was true, we would see very few people play LFR after their first clear of it, which just ain't the cause.
There is also a rather high number of people, based upon my own experience, who have normal+ difficulty gear when they do LFR, so its not just people, who won't experience the raid otherwise who play LFR.

The thing is, that it is content in WoW.....People are starved for it, so they will take what they can get. When there are only 2 movies in the theater, and you want to watch a movie, picking one of them says nothing about if you like it or not, just that you want to watch a movie.
The same with LFR. I think most people who play it (and therefore the people who the content should be designed for) only about tolerate LFR as it is right now, but its not bad enough to not play. I think if you could record the amounts of "sigh"-s that are made when playing WoW, a good amount of them would be coming from when people click "join group" for LFR.

[kranur]

You mean leeches who expect to be taught? There are raids that go in without knowledge, but it's usually not those raids the casuals join, because those raids are only casuals and they tend to fail very early.

You can be a casual and still know what you're doing. Even looking up rough tactics for every boss only takes a few minutes.

Exactly what I'm talking about. You're expecting everyone to have full knowledge and play perfectly ... for normal difficulty.

God forbid that someone who picks up the task to raid lead a pug takes the time to explain the tactics (which is not that long anyway) and god forbid someone makes a mistake.

This right here is why LFR NEEDS to exist, otherwise a lot of people just have no chance to get in a group.

[schwarzkopf]

Which, while interesting on its own, doesn't prove anything about the playerbase in general.

Correct, never set out to prove that ... just to show how small the non heroic/normal raiding scene is.

[Yarathir]

LFR is a superfluous, meaningless difficulty

For you.*

That's all there's really to say about that.

[Tadkins]

Exactly what I'm talking about. You're expecting everyone to have full knowledge and play perfectly ... for normal difficulty.

God forbid that someone who picks up the task to raid lead a pug takes the time to explain the tactics (which is not that long anyway) and god forbid someone makes a mistake.

This right here is why LFR NEEDS to exist, otherwise a lot of people just have no chance to get in a group.

I'm someone who struggles with some aspects of my class (I have the basics down but I just can never seem to take it to the next level). I'm also someone who struggles with things like logs, simming and weakauras. I can for the most part handle boss mechanics, even if it takes me a couple tries to get them down and even if I still might slip up occasionally.

According to most on these forums I have no place in WoW, with any guild, and I don't deserve to be anywhere near a normal raid.

[Thuunda]

Its more of a game mode for the Aunts/Uncle types who just want to experience the content and story and who have less than apt motor skills to play the game at a relatively decent level. I dont participate in it anymore and it particularly doesnt bother me. A lot of people have commitment issues with playing in a raid for multiple hours so this serves its purpose. Sure, we could add an automated invite mode in normal but I have seen enough wipes in LFR itself and I think Normal requires atleast some coordination and knowledge to get through.

I agree LFR is finally in the right spot where it belongs