LFR is a superfluous, meaningless difficulty

[Glazey]

WoD committed the cardinal offense of displeasing the "play 24/7" crowd.

No, WoD committed the cardinal offense of being a facebook game.

Everything that you've listed was finished within 3 months. Every new system that WoD introduced is seen as a failure. For a expansion that's meant to last two years to have content that only lasts for 3 months is a unacceptable failure. WoD had the fastest decline in playerbase in the games entire existence and still most likely holds its lowest point of subscribers.

[Nobleshield]

No, WoD committed the cardinal offense of being a facebook game.

Everything that you've listed was finished within 3 months. Every new system that WoD introduced is seen as a failure. For a expansion that's meant to last two years to have content that only lasts for 3 months is a unacceptable failure. WoD had the fastest decline in playerbase in the games entire existence and still most likely holds its lowest point of subscribers.

I think a lot was they didn't plan for longevity but they went the opposite way in Legion and turned the game into Diablo. The garrison was a neat idea but being there all the time sucked. The command table was (and still is) garbage. Ashran idk I didn't do PVP. Of course the fact that this playerbase wants to blow through everything ASAP and then loudly complain they have nothing to do because they didn't take their time while at the same time bitching if things are gated to make them take their time contributes the most.

[Glazey]

I think a lot was they didn't plan for longevity but they went the opposite way in Legion and turned the game into Diablo. The garrison was a neat idea but being there all the time sucked. The command table was (and still is) garbage. Ashran idk I didn't do PVP. Of course the fact that this playerbase wants to blow through everything ASAP and then loudly complain they have nothing to do because they didn't take their time while at the same time bitching if things are gated to make them take their time contributes the most.

They didn't plan for longevity? they've been deep in the 2 year cycle at this point, how they didn't "plan" for it just furthers my point that WoD was (and still is) a unacceptable failure. Players are gonna plow through everything all the new content, sure. We knew there was more content down the pipeline though. All WoD gave us was the zone that was delayed with a new reputation and a raid that was disappointing coming off the high that was BRF.

Whether you liked Legion or not is up to you, but calling it worse than WoD is just a absurd denial of reality.

[Depakote]

Wait, Legion with 10 baseline dungeons, 3 added in patches including the first “mega dungeon” since vanilla, mage tower, assaults, individual class campaigns, 36 artifacts (one for each spec) with their own quest line, 5 models, and 4 tints per model, class mounts, 5 raids covering 40 bosses (WoD had 3 raids covering 30 bosses), 4 added zones/daily hubs, is “no content?”

Legion had the most gated content. Timegated and Skill/gear gated. In WoD literally anyone could work their way up from bottom getting the best gear and compete in the Challenge mode dungeons and earn the armor sets. With Mythic + you either start as fast as everyone else or you get left behind. It's an unfair gearing system catered to those who have time and possibly even $ seeing as how runs can be bought.

[neik]

The game should definitely have a low intensity matchmaking system in place for those players who otherwise aren't interested in doing higher and more challenging activities.

The easy solution is to forget that it exist and focus on mythic plus which is very successful if you look at the amount of global players that are currently running the keys.

[Jastall]

Legion had the most gated content. Timegated and Skill/gear gated. In WoD literally anyone could work their way up from bottom getting the best gear and compete in the Challenge mode dungeons and earn the armor sets. With Mythic + you either start as fast as everyone else or you get left behind. It's an unfair gearing system catered to those who have time and possibly even $ seeing as how runs can be bought.

You're confusing WoD CMs with Mists's, which rewarded the armors. WoD rewarded weapons, most of which were pretty ugly IMO.

Speaking of, Mists managed to have CMs... and other stuff too. Such as more raids than WoD, more zones, more (and faaaar better) patches in general, lots more story content, daily content that wasn't just Apexis bar filling, a story that made at least some sense compared to WoD's timey-wimey-alternate-universe-one-Legion ball of total nonsense, so on and so forth. I won't even begin to list Legion's content. You not liking the content because it was "gated" doesn't mean it didn't exist. Not how words work.

Also, lol at thinking people in WoD didn't buy boosts, in either CMs or raids.

[Depakote]

You're confusing WoD CMs with Mists's, which rewarded the armors. WoD rewarded weapons, most of which were pretty ugly IMO.

Speaking of, Mists managed to have CMs... and other stuff too. Such as more raids than WoD, more zones, more (and faaaar better) patches in general, lots more story content, daily content that wasn't just Apexis bar filling, a story that made at least some sense compared to WoD's timey-wimey-alternate-universe-one-Legion ball of total nonsense, so on and so forth. I won't even begin to list Legion's content. You not liking the content because it was "gated" doesn't mean it didn't exist. Not how words work.

Also, lol at thinking people in WoD didn't buy boosts, in either CMs or raids.

I said nothing about not liking it, you inserted that bit in yourself. I also didn't say that people didn't buy boosts in WoD but it likely happened more in Legion because of the mythic+ system and how so much story + quests were locked behind it. Mists and WoD were the last of the high quality expansions imo. These past 3 have been crap and until they get rid of Ion they'll continue to be crap.

[Argorwal]

I said nothing about not liking it, you inserted that bit in yourself. I also didn't say that people didn't buy boosts in WoD but it likely happened more in Legion because of the mythic+ system and how so much story + quests were locked behind it. Mists and WoD were the last of the high quality expansions imo. These past 3 have been crap and until they get rid of Ion they'll continue to be crap.

What? Quests and story locked behind mythic+?

????

[Mardux]

I said nothing about not liking it, you inserted that bit in yourself. I also didn't say that people didn't buy boosts in WoD but it likely happened more in Legion because of the mythic+ system and how so much story + quests were locked behind it. Mists and WoD were the last of the high quality expansions imo. These past 3 have been crap and until they get rid of Ion they'll continue to be crap.

It was definitely implied.

[froschhure]

Exactly so

[Depakote]

What? Quests and story locked behind mythic+?

????

Correct not to mention some profession patterns.

[Argorwal]

Correct not to mention some profession patterns.

Did you even play the game?

There were no stories or quests involving mythic+ at all.

[Jastall]

I said nothing about not liking it, you inserted that bit in yourself. I also didn't say that people didn't buy boosts in WoD but it likely happened more in Legion because of the mythic+ system and how so much story + quests were locked behind it. Mists and WoD were the last of the high quality expansions imo. These past 3 have been crap and until they get rid of Ion they'll continue to be crap.

You said nothing but implied it so heavily that anyone would think so.

And literally nothing was locked behind M+ save one Artifact skin from KSM. That's it. Two dungeons were attunement locked and M0 only until 7.2. But nothing regarding story or professions was M+ locked at all. I played the ever loving shit out of Legion, I know.

[Depakote]

Did you even play the game?

There were no stories or quests involving mythic+ at all.

Yes actually but nice attack. Oh and i guess you're just going to gloss over finding pieces of illidan's soul that were only obtainable via mythic dungeons. There might be more but that's the one that sticks out the most. Oh and yes, there were and still are 3 star ranks of patterns for professions that drop off of certain bosses in only mythic dungeons but go ahead, be willfully ignorant because it helps push your narrative.

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You said nothing but implied it so heavily that anyone would think so.

And literally nothing was locked behind M+ save one Artifact skin from KSM. That's it. Two dungeons were attunement locked and M0 only until 7.2. But nothing regarding story or professions was M+ locked at all. I played the ever loving shit out of Legion, I know.

As for you, ya i'm going to ignore you because the reply I made wasn't to you.

[Argorwal]

Yes actually but nice attack. Oh and i guess you're just going to gloss over finding pieces of illidan's soul that were only obtainable via mythic dungeons. There might be more but that's the one that sticks out the most. Oh and yes, there were and still are 3 star ranks of patterns for professions that drop off of certain bosses in only mythic dungeons but go ahead, be willfully ignorant because it helps push your narrative.

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As for you, ya i'm going to ignore you because the reply I made wasn't to you.

So mythic0 (basically old wrath heroic prior to 3.3 and came back in WoD) and NOT anything at all related to mythic+, timers, or affixes?

Are you “sure” you actually played?

[Depakote]

So mythic0 (basically old wrath heroic prior to 3.3 and came back in WoD) and NOT anything at all related to mythic+, timers, or affixes?

Are you “sure” you actually played?

Yup but as seeing as all you have is baseless insults i think i'll ignore you too now though. That doesn't make any of what you've said correct though, i'm just not great at educating those who choose not to learn.

[ShadowofVashj]

I don't think lfr is completely superfluous. Low gear level aside, it's a tool to introduce people to raiding, pure and simple. Yes, it's a watered down mostly brain dead version of it, but it's a no pressure exposure to the system with low stakes.

[Jastall]

Yes actually but nice attack. Oh and i guess you're just going to gloss over finding pieces of illidan's soul that were only obtainable via mythic dungeons. There might be more but that's the one that sticks out the most. Oh and yes, there were and still are 3 star ranks of patterns for professions that drop off of certain bosses in only mythic dungeons but go ahead, be willfully ignorant because it helps push your narrative.

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As for you, ya i'm going to ignore you because the reply I made wasn't to you.

Base Mythic is not M+, you do know that right? You're again confusing two different things. M0 were hardly gated, starting from the time the Illidan quest was even doable (7.1), you could find groups for any M0 very easily via group finder, nobody was ever vetoing these seriously unless they were making a smash group for the dungeon weekly.

[Argorwal]

Yup but as seeing as all you have is baseless insults i think i'll ignore you too now though. That doesn't make any of what you've said correct though, i'm just not great at educating those who choose not to learn.

Your responses indicate a lack of knowledge of how the game worked during Legion so it’s not easy to tell if you actually played.

And everything I said was correct. There is no story or quests in mythic+, and what you were referring to for recipes and quests was base mythic 0 which came back in WoD and was similar to wrath heroics per 3.3.

Anyway, doesn’t matter, happy to be ignored by you I guess.

[Aliven]

no content is behind a gate really its just gear and i will never go into a system that has sludge fist heroic in the lfg system because that is garbage and you have people in lfr right now who are decked out in 197 loot that still dont understand shriekwing

theres no reason to push the higher difficulties into a random group system

If you dont want it you would not use it. Thats great about options, they are optional You can still made premade, go with guildies, etc.

Players are gating content. This is a fact.

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No, WoD committed the cardinal offense of being a facebook game.

Everything that you've listed was finished within 3 months. Every new system that WoD introduced is seen as a failure. For a expansion that's meant to last two years to have content that only lasts for 3 months is a unacceptable failure. WoD had the fastest decline in playerbase in the games entire existence and still most likely holds its lowest point of subscribers.

That decline was mostly due how they treated casual players. And no WoD systems were not failure, guess why we have every expansion since with a mission table.

And garnison were amazing idea.