'I can't keep doing this': gig workers say pay has fallen after California's Prop 22

[PC2]

I'm guessing Elegiac is a big believe in the One Billion Americans thesis. That isn't really the case; more people means lower over all wages, a point always ignored, because at the end of the day, if you double the labor supply, you halve the bargaining power of labor. Plus you double the cost of rent because there is now a massive demand for housing. So, Warren style Open Borders is great if you own property and are in the market for a cheap maid or cheap nanny and really want to keep those uber drives inexpensive.

The economics just aren't there, at least for the class of people who will be working as Maids and Uber drivers. And given there is no chance in hell of rolling back Prop 22, on the contrary, the architects have a direct line to the White House and the loyalty of the ruling political party at the moment, Prop 22 is going nation wide.

So yeah, a vast surplus army of desperately poor gig workers might be great for your average Warren voter, cheap maids, cheap rides, cheap nannies, cheap everything really. AND Big juicy returns for the property investments. But in real terms it will suck for everyone else.

No that's called a zero sum mentality. The population can go up while wages go up. Income is mainly a function of knowledge and not the amount of people in an economy.

[JohnBrown1917]

In the end that fate can't be avoided. Automation was always going to end with a impoverished servant class. I just don't get the drive to hasten it.

Only if you let that happen.
Oh wait, thats the whole point of right-wing politics, my bad.

[PC2]

In the end that fate can't be avoided. Automation was always going to end with a impoverished servant class. I just don't get the drive to hasten it.

Not at all because even if we automated all current tasks there would still be an infinite amount of new tasks and jobs that people could perform in order to generate wealth for themselves.

[Theodarzna]

No that's called a zero sum mentality. The population can go up while wages go up. Income is mainly a function of knowledge and not the amount of people in an economy.

We live on a zero sum planet, you aren't going to furnish a billion people with an American style of living, there aren't enough planets for that. Income won't go up if you double the labor supply, that isn't how supply and demand works. How much labor is worth in a market system which neither you, nor the Warrenites intend to reject changes that at all.

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In the end that fate can't be avoided. Automation was always going to end with a impoverished servant class. I just don't get the drive to hasten it.

Automation is radically overstated.

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Only if you let that happen.
Oh wait, thats the whole point of right-wing politics, my bad.

So are you not one of those "Fully automated space communism!" people?

[Elegiac]

We live on a zero sum planet, you aren't going to furnish a billion people with an American style of living, there aren't enough planets for that. Income won't go up if you double the labor supply, that isn't how supply and demand works. How much labor is worth in a market system which neither you, nor the Warrenites intend to reject changes that at all.

Okay, where is this concern for population growth when you were busy saying the government needs to be punishing people financially for being childless? Lol.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Okay, where is this concern for population growth when you were busy saying the government needs to be punishing people financially for being childless? Lol.

Well you see, the children need to be of a certain cultural heritage and have a certain skin color. People who simply cross a border could never possibly fit into a nation built by two hundred years of multicultural migrants. They could never possibly fit in to our mono-multicultural society. Plus apparently voodoo economics something something more people spending money apparently means it shoves wages down because reasons.

Has anyone ever noticed how nonsensical trickle down/supply side economics is? We basically have infinite production but the current bottleneck to economic growth is people who are unable to buy things. But apparently this is THEIR fault because they didn't create a billion dollar corporation and rig the government's laws to their benefit and pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

[Theodarzna]

Well you see, the children need to be of a certain cultural heritage and have a certain skin color. People who simply cross a border could never possibly fit into a nation built by two hundred years of multicultural migrants. They could never possibly fit in to our mono-multicultural society. Plus apparently voodoo economics something something more people spending money apparently means it shoves wages down because reasons.

Has anyone ever noticed how nonsensical trickle down/supply side economics is? We basically have infinite production but the current bottleneck to economic growth is people who are unable to buy things. But apparently this is THEIR fault because they didn't create a billion dollar corporation and rig the government's laws to their benefit and pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

Nice, well I thank you for putting words into my mouth and being so generous in your representation of my stance on natalism. But hey, rock on with the strawman, I am sure it'll earn some solid pats on the back there.

[Elegiac]

Nice, well I thank you for putting words into my mouth and being so generous in your representation of my stance on natalism. But hey, rock on with the strawman, I am sure it'll earn some solid pats on the back there.

What else are we supposed to assume when your position is effectively that population growth is only okay if it's native born citizens of a certain socioeconomic class doing the growing?

[Ivanstone]

We live on a zero sum planet, you aren't going to furnish a billion people with an American style of living, there aren't enough planets for that. Income won't go up if you double the labor supply, that isn't how supply and demand works. How much labor is worth in a market system which neither you, nor the Warrenites intend to reject changes that at all.

If its a Zero Sum Planet how do we address income equality? Wait I know. Take money from those who have too much income. Gogo Marxism. You like Marxism right?

Furthermore if its a Zero Sum Planet, immigration really doesn't matter at all.

[Krakan]

Only if you let that happen.
Oh wait, thats the whole point of right-wing politics, my bad.

Yes...I'm sure the other side ruled by elites will save you...

[Elegiac]

Yes...I'm sure the other side ruled by elites will save you...

The right wing represents the status quo which is ruled by those same elites, so...

What was your argument again? Besides exposing that the modern right has basically become the modern analogue to a monarchist party representing the King's interests in parliament while using populist rhetoric as a cover?

[Krakan]

The right wing represents the status quo which is ruled by those same elites, so...

What was your argument again? Besides exposing that the modern right has basically become the modern analogue to a monarchist party representing the King's interests in parliament while using populist rhetoric as a cover?

I don't really have an argument more simply enjoying the toboggan ride to ruin as people slowly start to realize how screwed they are and how easily they were herded towards it.

[PC2]

I don't really have an argument more simply enjoying the toboggan ride to ruin as people slowly start to realize how screwed they are and how easily they were herded towards it.

Why do you think people and/or the economy are headed into ruin though? We're in a pandemic and a recession but they are just temporary.

[JohnBrown1917]

Yes...I'm sure the other side ruled by elites will save you...

Just because you happen to support the super rich, like Trump, does not mean everybody does.
I'm not going to join you in pretending that you actually need a strong hierarchy for society to function. Sorry.

[Krakan]

Why do you think people and/or the economy are headed into ruin though? We're in a pandemic and a recession but they are just temporary.

I think a lot of people envision a highly unrealistic future of not wealth but comfort given to them by governmental institutions. It's a childish belief that somehow in someway the rich will pay for everything. While the slow destruction of their buying power is slowly waking them up to the realization they are screwed.

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Just because you happen to support the super rich, like Trump, does not mean everybody does.
I'm not going to join you in pretending that you actually need a strong hierarchy for society to function. Sorry.

You think so do you? Tell me friend who has more power in society a uber driver or a CEO?

You already live in the world your desperately pretending doesn't exist.

[Ivanstone]

It's a childish belief that somehow in someway the rich will pay for everything.

The rich won't pay for everything. We kind of want them to stop taking our money so we can pay for our own stuff.

[TigTone]

Well, so goes California so goes the country. It's going nation wide, the allure of borderline slaves is just too great to be passed on by these people.

The GOP dream

[Felya]

In the end that fate can't be avoided. Automation was always going to end with a impoverished servant class. I just don't get the drive to hasten it.

No, this is simply not true. Who builds automation? Who owns the patent?

Let’s pretend that I work on automation... that I have both written and planned automation, that replaced 48 hour process, with a 2 hour cycle... in this pretend situation, do you think I got paid?

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You think so do you? Tell me friend who has more power in society a uber driver or a CEO?

What if I changed that to... who has more power in society. Uber CEO or 4 million uber drivers around the world... combined?

[Themius]

No that's called a zero sum mentality. The population can go up while wages go up. Income is mainly a function of knowledge and not the amount of people in an economy.

Income is mainly a function exploitation... not knowledge.

[Theodarzna]

The GOP dream

Scratch a Democrat and its the same thing. After all Kamala's brother in law spearheaded the prop 22 effort.