[TV] WandaVision

[Endus]

No. I disagreed with your assertion that Agatha killing her coven was the same as Thanos doing what he did. As I have stated three times now. I never once said Agatha wasn’t evil even though you’re claiming I did. Maybe go back and look at what I wrote and do your best not to project anything beyond the words I used.

Thanos killed billions because he was worried about them running out of finite resources... that doesn’t do anything but prolong the time it takes resources to deplete. Nobody was trying to kill him. Agatha stole some no no knowledge and was being killed because of it. Pretty big difference.

At the very least, Agatha didn't start that fight. She fought back, after being (in her opinion) sentenced to death unjustly. They were literally trying to execute her, and it appears her tool for killing them was literally the magic they were using to try and kill her with, she just twisted it around on them somehow.

Much of her issue with Wanda also appears to be concern for the state of the Earth; she noticed a mega amount of magic being used, and showed up to figure out how. And when she realized Wanda was using chaos magic, that became a problem for her, because of the risks.

Honestly, other than the bit of gaslighting she did to amuse herself while hiding within the fantasy, Agatha really hasn't done anything evil. Particularly when she only just realized that Wanda's magic is actually creating things for real, at the end of this most recent episode; if they were just illusions and Wanda was deluding herself, then killing "Sparky" and torturing the "children" is just mucking about with someone's imaginary friends. It isn't real. Hard to consider that "evil" territory, either.

[ProphetFlume]

I think its already semi confirmed we are supposed to be getting John Krasinski and Emily Blunt as Mr/Mrs. Fantastic.

It is not. It’s been a fan cast for years. Marvel has approached blunt for multiple characters over the years. Around the time of a quiet place krasinski said he wanted to focus on his own movies instead of being locked into a brand contract. None of this means they won’t be them, or that they’re not sought after, but the rumor is based on nothing. And personally I think the time for them has passed. The latest rumor is Jennifer Lawrence is sue storm, which I don’t buy but if it ends up true kill me right fucking now.

[Berndorf]

It is not. It’s been a fan cast for years. Marvel has approached blunt for multiple characters over the years. Around the time of a quiet place krasinski said he wanted to focus on his own movies instead of being locked into a brand contract. None of this means they won’t be them, or that they’re not sought after, but the rumor is based on nothing. And personally I think the time for them has passed. The latest rumor is Jennifer Lawrence is sue storm, which I don’t buy but if it ends up true kill me right fucking now.

I wouldn't go so far as to say its based on nothing. Krasinski has actually made quite a few statements about wanting to be Reed Richards and also auditioned to be Cap.

[ProphetFlume]

Much of her issue with Wanda also appears to be concern for the state of the Earth; she noticed a mega amount of magic being used, and showed up to figure out how. And when she realized Wanda was using chaos magic, that became a problem for her, because of the risks.

Honestly, other than the bit of gaslighting she did to amuse herself while hiding within the fantasy, Agatha really hasn't done anything evil. Particularly when she only just realized that Wanda's magic is actually creating things for real, at the end of this most recent episode; if they were just illusions and Wanda was deluding herself, then killing "Sparky" and torturing the "children" is just mucking about with someone's imaginary friends. It isn't real. Hard to consider that "evil" territory, either.

She can also just be shitty without being evil. She’s been alive for centuries which both invites a different mindset and means she grew up in a time of completely different beliefs and morals. Witches have histories of sacrificing animals and collecting reagents from their parts.

Speaking of her age, I’m not sold on it being from sucking the essence nor draining magic from the dark dimension. I guess we’d have to see her in the mirror dimension to see if she has the mark on her forehead. She also doesn’t have the blackness around her eyes kaecilius and co had, but neither did TAO. Her magic isn’t black but purple, while the other witches’ were blue, and wanda’s is red. I thought maybe she’d visited kamar taj for a time and stole that grimoire we saw, but I don’t see the ancient one training her. But maybe.

[Gasparde]

I wouldn't go so far as to say its based on nothing. Krasinski has actually made quite a few statements about wanting to be Reed Richards and also auditioned to be Cap.

And since then he has blown up and become quite the name already.
As filthy rich as Disney is, they probably don't want to build the next 10 years of Marvel upon someone who can already ask for RDJ amounts of cash now instead of 10 years down the road. Like, I don't expect them to go with complete nonames, especially not once we're getting to the point of iconic and beloved characters such as Dr Doom, but I'm pretty sure we're just not gonna see a The Rock or Jennifer Lawrence in a role that's gonna be featured in like every other film over the next 10 years.

[Berndorf]

And since then he has blown up and become quite the name already.
As filthy rich as Disney is, they probably don't want to build the next 10 years of Marvel upon someone who can already ask for RDJ amounts of cash now instead of 10 years down the road. Like, I don't expect them to go with complete nonames, especially not once we're getting to the point of iconic and beloved characters such as Dr Doom, but I'm pretty sure we're just not gonna see a The Rock or Jennifer Lawrence in a role that's gonna be featured in like every other film over the next 10 years.

I don't think Krasinski will get ruled out over money concerns. I don't think he could or would command as much as RDJ either. He's not that tier of star imo. I don't really care either way tbh. I think that 2020 probably threw a few wrenches in Feige's plans which may include having the FF cast set and shooting beginning as well.

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She can also just be shitty without being evil. She’s been alive for centuries which both invites a different mindset and means she grew up in a time of completely different beliefs and morals. Witches have histories of sacrificing animals and collecting reagents from their parts.

Speaking of her age, I’m not sold on it being from sucking the essence nor draining magic from the dark dimension. I guess we’d have to see her in the mirror dimension to see if she has the mark on her forehead. She also doesn’t have the blackness around her eyes kaecilius and co had, but neither did TAO. Her magic isn’t black but purple, while the other witches’ were blue, and wanda’s is red. I thought maybe she’d visited kamar taj for a time and stole that grimoire we saw, but I don’t see the ancient one training her. But maybe.

I think she likely has some kind of link to either Mephisto or C'Thon. Rumor has it that Mephisto appears. Her not aging could easily be just due to some simple spell she mastered over the years.

[Gasparde]

I don't think Krasinski will get ruled out over money concerns. I don't think he could or would command as much as RDJ either. He's not that tier of star imo. I don't really care either way tbh. I think that 2020 probably threw a few wrenches in Feige's plans which may include having the FF cast set and shooting beginning as well.

When Downey came into the MCU he was basically dead. No one was willing to give the guy any roles. If it weren't for Favreau, I'm not sure if RDJ would be the household name that he is today.

Krasinski is not coming into this from the same background. Not even talking about Blunt here. They'd both be coming in with a pretty strong name already, probably not demanding RDJ or Evans numbers yet... but still, 10 years to go. Marvel makes names households these days... but rarely do they hire household names in positions that are set to carry them through multiple years.

[Berndorf]

When Downey came into the MCU he was basically dead. No one was willing to give the guy any roles. If it weren't for Favreau, I'm not sure if RDJ would be the household name that he is today.

Krasinski is not coming into this from the same background. Not even talking about Blunt here. They'd both be coming in with a pretty strong name already, probably not demanding RDJ or Evans numbers yet... but still, 10 years to go. Marvel makes names households these days... but rarely do they hire household names in positions that are set to carry them through multiple years.

I'm well aware of where RDJ was and how he was lucky enough to sign a royalty clause in his contract and then obviously how he stood to make much more after the Avengers made $1.5b. I don't think Krasinski would be coming in with near that much clout though. I think he'd take like $10-15m per movie and be happy. He's not an a list guy by any stretch imo. Emily is prob more well known but we're also talking about Disney here which isn't exactly short on funds. I think the question would be more relating to their age at this point. I'm not even a Krasinski fan.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I was wondering, is this time frame why Tony or Bruce stop Heyward? It doesn’t make sense to me the Avengers didn’t stop Heyward as many of them were alive in this time frame and I imagine Tony and Bruce would’ve had a big issue with Heyward doing this.

What Authority would they have to stop a government organization following it's charter?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Honestly, other than the bit of gaslighting she did to amuse herself while hiding within the fantasy, Agatha really hasn't done anything evil. Particularly when she only just realized that Wanda's magic is actually creating things for real, at the end of this most recent episode; if they were just illusions and Wanda was deluding herself, then killing "Sparky" and torturing the "children" is just mucking about with someone's imaginary friends. It isn't real. Hard to consider that "evil" territory, either.

They are real to Wanda and Agatha's using that to extort her. Threatening to murder someone's children is overtly evil.

[Gasparde]

Marvel has cast Benedict Cumberbatch and Brie Larson after both were bigger than Krasinski. Blunt could arguably rival them.

Cumberbatch, yes. But then again, he's nowhere near a focal point of the MCU despite having been cast like 8 years ago. I'm not sure if Reed Richards would fall into the same category.

And then there's Larson. Like, maybe it's just me, but while I've heard her name before once or twice... I'm not sure she's been considered as a household name before. Like, yea, she's had some movies under her belt, but it's not like she was carrying those all by herself - totally different league compared to Blunt, but then again maybe not that different from Krasinski (although I can remember him from actually solid movies instead of only remembering Larson from noname roles in stuff like 21 Jump Street or random Amy Schumer movies).

Dunno, I think money could very well be a thing that makes them hesitate in this case.

[Endus]

When Downey came into the MCU he was basically dead. No one was willing to give the guy any roles. If it weren't for Favreau, I'm not sure if RDJ would be the household name that he is today.

Maybe not to the same degree, but let's recall that before he was in Iron Man, after his recovery, he was in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and Zodiac, both strong movies with solid critical reviews, and Tropic Thunder, which not only did really well but got memed beyond belief. And got Downey a nomination for an Academy Award.

His career was not remotely "dead" at the time he took on Iron Man.

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They are real to Wanda and Agatha's using that to extort her. Threatening to murder someone's children is overtly evil.

Even if you think the person is crazy and threatening their imaginary friends doesn't really mean anything?

I'm not arguing Agatha's a saint, but we've seen Wanda do way worse. Even before Wandavision.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Even if you think the person is crazy and threatening their imaginary friends doesn't really mean anything?

I'm not arguing Agatha's a saint, but we've seen Wanda do way worse. Even before Wandavision.

Tormenting a crazy person isn't okay.

Let me put you in a hypothetical.

Say there is a crazy guy on the street talking to his "imaginary children"

You then go up into his face and scream at him "If you don't give me all your money I will murder your children in front of you"

Are you a good person in that scenario?

[Nobody Worth Knowing]

Not even remotely. Agatha killed people trying to kill her.

Sparky would disagree. So would John Wick.

[Endus]

Tormenting a crazy person isn't okay.

Let me put you in a hypothetical.

Say there is a crazy guy on the street talking to his "imaginary children"

You then go up into his face and scream at him "If you don't give me all your money I will murder your children in front of you"

Are you a good person in that scenario?

What if that guy's holding an entire town in mental slavery just to give those imaginary kids a good life? And is potentially putting the entire planet at risk in the process?

You can't just cut out major components of Agatha's possible justifications, here.

And like I said; not arguing Agatha's a good guy. Just arguing that Wanda, objectively, has done far worse just in Wandavision than anything we've seen from Agatha.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

What if that guy's holding an entire town in mental slavery just to give those imaginary kids a good life? And is potentially putting the entire planet at risk in the process?

You can't just cut out major components of Agatha's justifications, here.

Her justifications are "You have power...i want it"

And like I said; not arguing Agatha's a good guy. Just arguing that Wanda, objectively, has done far worse just in Wandavision than anything we've seen from Agatha.

And I'm not arguing that anything Wanda is doing is good. What Wanda is doing is terrible. But there's a pretty strong case to be made that she's not responsible for her actions right now.

[Nobody Worth Knowing]

He was crumbling when he tried to leave the Hex

Wrong.

Did you not even look at what was happening on screen? Seriously? The Hex was PULLING HIM BACK IN. He wasn't "crumbling." He was being ripped apart after he physically left the Hex. And, you'll note, he was very much still alive and functioning even as it was tearing him to pieces.

He wasn't deterioriting and falling to pieces at the ground. That's what "crumbling" means.

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So who is the Nexus Being. Wanda or the kids?

Wanda. It was fairly clear in one of the flashbacks.

[Endus]

Her justifications are "You have power...i want it"

I'm pretty sure she never said that.

She wanted to know how Wanda did it.

Not the same thing.

Wrong.

Did you not even look at what was happening on screen? Seriously? The Hex was PULLING HIM BACK IN. He wasn't "crumbling." He was being ripped apart after he physically left the Hex.

That's not a contradiction of what I said. He was falling apart, and the pieces were pulled back into the Hex.

And, you'll note, he was very much still alive and functioning even as it was tearing him to pieces.

"Falling apart" is not really analogous to "functioning".

He wasn't deterioriting and falling to pieces at the ground. That's what "crumbling" means.

It literally is not. Where the hell did you get that?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...lish/crumbling
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/crumbling
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crumbling
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/crumbling
https://www.lexico.com/definition/crumbling

Take your pick of any dictionary.

[PACOX]

What Authority would they have to stop a government organization following it's charter?

A SHIELD organization.

Tony had a ridiculous amount of clout. Tony also 'retired' during that time though. Hulk was being a celebrity.. Captain America had already had a falling out with the government and pulled back a bit. I would Black Widow would have been the hurdle SWORD had to overcome and she was pretty overwhelmed.

[ohwell]

No one was suggesting that Agatha was the one doing the baiting though. Hayward was.



AoS is canon. It's mostly one-sided...just like Netflix's Marvel shows...but they all exist in the same Universe.

That's how Fury got his Helicarrier in Age of Ultron.

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His interactions with everyone share similarities. People are either useful to him or they are in his way. If they are in his way...he's going to do what he can to sideline them.

I was agreeing with you adding more supporting evidence in terms of Agatha.....

Also it's pretty much been cemented that AoS is noncanon to the main MCU once they were left out of the loop on the snap. They tried to keep everything linked up, but the movie side kept tight lipped about the 2 movies and basically the last few seasons basically are proof enough that they aren't in the same universe. One could say the time travel in the season where they were in space/the future caused them to leave the main continuity as that was where the disconnect started with the movies.