Racism in Top End guilds exposed.

[Traveler Voltin]

it was more protection from the government for the most part but i could be wrong.

[rrayy]

America is racist; no surprise it is found in its online communities.

The world is racist, even where you live. Stop acting like your country is completely innocent of it It isn't.

[Zyky]

At the end of the day people need to stop being so soft-skinned when they're not directing these words at other people in a specific manner. As a gay individual I frequently hear the F word from people who are some of my closest friends and I don't let it bother me because I know they're not saying it to be derogatory towards homosexual people. People need to realize there's a difference between just using a word and being hateful, because not everyone who uses these words are hateful.

[evertonbelmontt]

You're confused about what freedom of speech is, probably because you're American and everyone you know has taught you incorrectly.

Freedom of speech is a concept from Greek philosophy that was revived by early enlightenment thinkers. It means, quite simply, that in a general sense, one is free to speak their mind without consequences.

Where you've become confused is you have equated freedom of speech with an American law, part of the Constitution, called the First Amendment. The First Amendment states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This law is where people get the idea that Freedom of Speech is somehow related to the government because of the abridging the freedom of speech part.

It'd be kind of like if there was a law that specifically said the government isn't allowed to murder people and then you said because of that it's not possible for a private citizen to unjustly kill someone. It's a non-sequitur.

I enjoyed reading this. Thanks for the info.

[fohpo]

At the end of the day people need to stop being so soft-skinned when they're not directing these words at other people in a specific manner. As a gay individual I frequently hear the F word from people who are some of my closest friends and I don't let it bother me because I know they're not saying it to be derogatory towards homosexual people. People need to realize there's a difference between just using a word and being hateful, because not everyone who uses these words are hateful.

The problem is that normalizes the use of the word and can generally lead to people becoming more accepting of the more derogatory use. There's been research on it, I'll have to dig back to find it.

[uwotm869]

The problem is that normalizes the use of the word and can generally lead to people becoming more accepting of the more derogatory use. There's been research on it, I'll have to dig back to find it.

Who the fuck cares? They’re fucking WORDS. They have absolutely NO meaning unless YOU ALLOW it to. Humans will ALWAYS be imperfect. There will NEVER be this shining utopia that so many leftists desperately want. The ONLY thijg that will allow humanity to progress and GROW is teaching people that words, concepts, and ideas mean absolutely fucking nothing. People think that putting people in prison for saying shit they don’t like is going to help society? LMFAO. Maybe it’ll give you the illusion that things are nice and cozy but you’ll be DAMN SURE that the people who are still aligned with their emotional nature WILL rise up again and LASH THE FUCK OUT when they’re fucking SICK of being told what they can and can’t say, can and can’t think. This HORRIFYING authoritarian bullshit WILL come back to haunt you, and you’ll have NO safe space to run to HAHAHAHA

[Malcho]

I heard you couldn't get into a raid guild in China even if you knew enough of their language to follow along.
Because they hate all non-Chinese.

[OrcsRLame]

it has everything to do with property rights, because that old concept of free speech comes into direct conflict with property rights. At some point, something has to give.

The concept of free speech simply doesn't work in a world with private property. When two rights conflict with one another, then one will win out. Not only would you be attacking the property owners property rights, but also their own freedom of speech and freedom of association.

Nah, fuck that.

Then just say you're against Freedom of Speech. Or if you feel that's too much of a rhetorical landmine then stop talking about Freedom of Speech and start talking about how great the First Amendment is, since that's what you mean anyway.

Just please stop saying wrong things about Freedom of Speech. It's cringe af.

[Machismo]

Then just say you're against Freedom of Speech. Or if you feel that's too much of a rhetorical landmine then stop talking about Freedom of Speech and start talking about how great the First Amendment is, since that's what you mean anyway.

Just please stop saying wrong things about Freedom of Speech. It's cringe af.

I'm not, because you are pushing bullshit. Just because I don't think you should be able to force your speech onto others on their own property, does not mean I'm opposed to freedom of speech.

Or, are you now arguing you are opposed to property rights and freedom of association?

If you are arguing I'm opposed to free speech, then you are also arguing you are opposed to those things.

Let me know!!!

[A Chozo]

Context is very important, clear actual racism I agree shouldn't be tolerated but if something is said as a joke between people that know each other that's different.

A sequence of jokes using racism at it's base between the same group of people isn't ok, it's still racism.

Imagine that we had a room in an hotel where a group of people reunited, and all they did was make racist jokes while playing chess. When they leave, they all behave nomarly, but when there, racist "jokes".

If anyone knew what those people did there, they would simply be labelled as racists. They express their racism in secret, but it's still part of who they are. And that part disgusts the rest of us. Not that we can do anything because they keep doing it in their little private space, but if we know about it (and we did with OP's post), we feel disgust. We feel that there's a problem in the fabric of society that led a group of people to decide that lame racist jokes are fun (but are too coward to make any of them in public).

[rhorle]

Freedom of speech is a concept from Greek philosophy that was revived by early enlightenment thinkers. It means, quite simply, that in a general sense, one is free to speak their mind without consequences.

Imagine nation bashing, history dropping, and writing multiple paragraphs just to be wrong. Did you never learn what happened to Socrates and his trial? Any freedom of speech has always been at the behest of the government and why even an Athenian could be tried for what he taught and said. Because that is who makes the rules in a society. That is why in the US it was set up to restrict the governments ability to stop speech.

Freedom of Speech has never been about freedom from all consequences. Because anything you so will undoubtedly have a consequence of some form or another. Social. Political. Philosophical. Etc. Saying it is an ancient rule that you can't be blamed for anything you say is just a way to weasel out of responsibility.

It is freedom of speech not freedom of responsibility. If you can't own what you say and deal with the results then you weren't freely speaking to begin with. You were only speaking because you couldn't be harmed.

[LanToaster]

...wall of text...

I´m sorry this happend to you. I do wonder though, when I read/see stories like this, why did you not report them?
"Calling out", like this thread doesnt fix the Issue. If issues get reported, people get punished.

If anyone knew what those people did there, they would simply be labelled as racists. They express their racism in secret, but it's still part of who they are. And that part disgusts the rest of us. Not that we can do anything because they keep doing it in their little private space, but if we know about it (and we did with OP's post), we feel disgust. We feel that there's a problem in the fabric of society that led a group of people to decide that lame racist jokes are fun (but are too coward to make any of them in public).

But what makes you different from them in that case?
You judge, and hate them because they are/think different. Its basically the same.

You call them cowards, could it not be that they are just a bit more tolerant than you are? They might accept you not liking their humor and spare you from it. But you judge them.

[The Oblivion]

A sequence of jokes using racism at it's base between the same group of people isn't ok, it's still racism.

Imagine that we had a room in an hotel where a group of people reunited, and all they did was make racist jokes while playing chess. When they leave, they all behave nomarly, but when there, racist "jokes".

If anyone knew what those people did there, they would simply be labelled as racists. They express their racism in secret, but it's still part of who they are. And that part disgusts the rest of us. Not that we can do anything because they keep doing it in their little private space, but if we know about it (and we did with OP's post), we feel disgust. We feel that there's a problem in the fabric of society that led a group of people to decide that lame racist jokes are fun (but are too coward to make any of them in public).

some of the best jokes involve race, you are missing out lmfao

only idiots (sjw's) would label them as racists and feel "disgust", no normal person would hear a joke and think, this person believes their race is superior to this other race, which is what makes someone a racist.

[apustus]

A sequence of jokes using racism at it's base between the same group of people isn't ok, it's still racism.

Imagine that we had a room in an hotel where a group of people reunited, and all they did was make racist jokes while playing chess. When they leave, they all behave nomarly, but when there, racist "jokes".

If anyone knew what those people did there, they would simply be labelled as racists. They express their racism in secret, but it's still part of who they are. And that part disgusts the rest of us. Not that we can do anything because they keep doing it in their little private space, but if we know about it (and we did with OP's post), we feel disgust. We feel that there's a problem in the fabric of society that led a group of people to decide that lame racist jokes are fun (but are too coward to make any of them in public).

"If I could read minds I'd think people are bad"

[Shadowferal]

Freedom of speech is a concept from Greek philosophy that was revived by early enlightenment thinkers. It means, quite simply, that in a general sense, one is free to speak their mind without consequences.

Incorrect.
"one is free to speak their mind without legal consequences."

You can lose your job among other things for being an a-hole.

[Nnyco]

Just because you write/say it on your private discord doesnt make it any less racist. Such a silly excuse.

[Shadowferal]

My former supervisor lost his job because he insisted that wearing his pro-2nd amendment t-shirt was acceptable.
Outside...sure.
In the workplace? Nope.

[Theoris]

No surprise there, and it's not even limited to the playerbase. There's an item from the Ny'alotha raid that translates from Old God speak into a racial slur (with a hard 'r', too).

[NordWitcher]

Plenty of people are condoning racism, and some are even admitting to being racists, themselves.

They got outed, and that's what free speech is all about. They were free to say those things, and others were free to let others know what they said.

Ok but them you don’t get to cry about it later if you talking “free speech” and that is your argument. You can’t have it both ways.

- - - Updated - - -

Your defense of racism is weak as hell dude. Doing something in private you are ashamed of and being a racist is completely different things. Home boy might be ashamed that he jerked off to his waifu pillow in private but he isn't a bigot because of it. You don't throw around racist terms in your private life if you are ashamed of it, you just don't want the world to know that you're a bigot.

So nice try on the deflection. Stop with the weak ass attempts to defend bigots.

Maybe you should stop being ignorant. You took out a sentence out of context to say what you wanted to say. I could do the same but would only be wasting my time with an ignorant troll.

[vulfrika]

You have very little understanding on what’s it is like to be a minority in America.

If you are so well informed in American history they why do you insist that minority’s need to “get over it”.

To me it seems you learned American history from a white washed book that glances over the history of minorities in America.

To put it in some perspective for you minorities in America have only had 57 years of protected civil rights. Civil Rights act of 1964 Incase you forgot.

Even with the act there is still systemic racism in many aspects of American society.

57 years of civil rights are more than what half of Germany has had, and several of the east european people. They are moving/have moved on.

The black american's situation is neither unique nor uniquely hard. In fact, they have it so good that they can perform mass violence and destruction for an entire summer without any real repercussions. In fact, the english army mowed down irish protestors for less in the 70's (bloody sunday for reference), so the irish has had it harder for longer than the black american population.

The black american population needs to get its fingers out of its ass and move on.