Boost & mount haha

[Thestrawman]

I don't think you have to level to 58 by hand. I never thought that. You are free to use the boost as you want. What I do want is fresh realms. The ones who go to existing realms are free to use boosts as much as they want.
What I want is for people to be honest as well. Gaining power by paying money is p2w and always has been.

It's amusing how shallow of an argument you have. You're basically the boy who cried p2w.

[kukkamies]

It's amusing how shallow of an argument you have. You're basically the boy who cried p2w.

I truly don't understand. What do you even mean with that?
No explanations for your opinion so have to turn to attacking the person? The classic, feels like it happens so often here.

[chrisnumbers]

?? I don't understand. Do you think it's not power to gain levels?

The power of a level 58 over a level 1 is totally irrelevant. What people are concerned with is the time they have to spend getting to 58 when their goal is to play the game at 70. Literally no one is buying a 58 and thinking "I may now smash all of the level 1s loool" since that's not how or why the game is played.

[kukkamies]

The power of a level 58 over a level 1 is totally irrelevant. What people are concerned with is the time they have to spend getting to 58 when their goal is to play the game at 70. Literally no one is buying a 58 and thinking "I may now smash all of the level 1s loool" since that's not how or why the game is played.

Of course no one is thinking that. It's so obvious 58lvl is more powerful than 1lvl. It should also be obvious that gaining the 57lvls for paying money is a power increase. Power pretty much equals time until raids. Saving the around 100 hours of levelling means you are more powerful than one who didn't get the boost for that 100h + the time it takes from 58 to full dungeon gear. Then weekly time gates kick in and the no boost can catch up.

So it's around a 150 or 200 hours of power increase compared to no boost?

[Thestrawman]

I truly don't understand. What do you even mean with that?
No explanations for your opinion so have to turn to attacking the person? The classic, feels like it happens so often here.

It should be obvious what my opinion is. I think your whole argument is stupid. You've yet to point out in any way that the boost is a win. I gave you so many chances to prove how it's a win and the best you could come up with is that it's faster then leveling through classic. Which is the point. Because unlike you Blizzard can see the thousands of accounts that gave up 20-30 levels in to classic and came up with the brilliant idea of providing very restrictive boosts through that so they didn't have to split the miniscule classic player base between vanilla and tbc. You should be grateful for the boosts.

[chrisnumbers]

So it's around a 150 or 200 hours of power increase

I think you're too hung up on your idea of power. A boost is a time save, and that's it. The power of a character is meaningless.

[kukkamies]

It should be obvious what my opinion is. I think your whole argument is stupid. You've yet to point out in any way that the boost is a win. I gave you so many chances to prove how it's a win and the best you could come up with is that it's faster then leveling through classic. Which is the point. Because unlike you Blizzard can see the thousands of accounts that gave up 20-30 levels in to classic and came up with the brilliant idea of providing very restrictive boosts through that so they didn't have to split the miniscule classic player base between vanilla and tbc. You should be grateful for the boosts.

I did point out quite a few ways it's a win and you never had any counter arguments. Just said the same thing again and again. "58 isn't winning whole wow!". Seems like you have trouble recognizing midway points in things?
It is good for those who like it of course. It still is p2w. There's many people who like p2w, it's not always bad. I'm just one who doesn't like it. The ones who like are free to enjoy it. Chinese even glorify p2w and take pride in it.

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I think you're too hung up on your idea of power. A boost is a time save, and that's it. The power of a character is meaningless.

If power of character is meaningless then nothing can ever be p2w in games where it's meaningless. It's an opinion too... Since even getting gear from raids or dungeons is just a time save. Not like it's difficult at all. Same with reputation or gold.
Even in real life the only thing you need is time. Then you can get as much money or skills as you want. If only I had 50 years of investments
running before today... I'll stop working the moment I do

[Rageadon]

Are you of the opinion that nothing can be p2w? Because you never literally win WoW so nothing can ever be p2w

No, im asking you if lvl 58 is when you win the game, you refuse to answer, by ur logic buying the game is p2w

[kukkamies]

No, im asking you if lvl 58 is when you win the game, you refuse to answer, by ur logic buying the game is p2w

I've already answered many times. 58 gets you a lot closer to winning the game. It's a big increase in power compared to one who didn't buy the boost. Buying the game isn't p2w because everyone is on equal playfield. Boost means we are running a 10km running competition but boosted start at halfway done while non-boosted starts at beginning. Buying would be like an entrance fee to join the competition, everyone still starts on same line.

[Thestrawman]

I did point out quite a few ways it's a win and you never had any counter arguments. Just said the same thing again and again. "58 isn't winning whole wow!". Seems like you have trouble recognizing midway points in things?
It is good for those who like it of course. It still is p2w. There's many people who like p2w, it's not always bad. I'm just one who doesn't like it. The ones who like are free to enjoy it. Chinese even glorify p2w and take pride in it.

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If power of character is meaningless then nothing can ever be p2w in games where it's meaningless. It's an opinion too... Since even getting gear from raids or dungeons is just a time save. Not like it's difficult at all. Same with reputation or gold.
Even in real life the only thing you need is time. Then you can get as much money or skills as you want. If only I had 50 years of investments
running before today... I'll stop working the moment I do

See the problem is, you see everything as p2w. It's not. It will never be p2w. There's absolutely nothing about the boost that gives you an edge over anyone else. But keep stamping your feet and throwing your fit and maybe, just maybe you'll convince someone who already agreed with you.

[Duroga]

Are you of the opinion that nothing can be p2w? Because you never literally win WoW so nothing can ever be p2w.

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If you read the conversation it's about whether the boost is p2w or not. And you clearly say "While it is sort of p2w, it's a very weak one". Please tell me why that doesn't have any credibility? Do you also not have any credibility?

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And if I don't boost I'll be at level 1. Behind you while we both did nothing. Sounds like booster is the winner to me.

P2W would be a level70 with full T4, 375 Profession and EPIC mount.
Level 58 with 60% Mount and Dungeon Blues ist just P2Chill, i would call it a catchup.

I got 2 Chars at 60, one at 54 and one at 46 and i just cant't take it anymore.
Leveling suxx, dungeons suxx, cause al you read ist looking4boost.
I went back to retail, but m+ suxx and boosting is just the same shit al over again.

It was different for my first char on classic, leveling felt nice you always found groups, everybody helped each other
but once the 24/7 nolifers started to domain everything the game got bad.

It would or maybe will be the same if you have to start all over again at 1.
By the time you reach 70, the nolifers control the game and its over before it began.
If you start at 58 at least you have a couple of weeks to enjoy the game.

[Prag]

Trying to argue that TBC should be consistent with a product, whose evolution is pretty much the Raison d'être to those Classic / TBC servers is utterly nonsensical.

Nope. Not what I’m arguing. I’m saying it IS consistent with their product decisions ever since they moved to engagement metrics.

You mean the opinion of those people that essentially is "i don't want to level through Classic?"

Yes.

So going by your earlier comment that Classic leveling is dead, it's going to impact those that want to level without paying for the boost, as they will lack other players around them to complete certain quests or consistently run dungeons.

It's pretty difficult to shit on classic leveling, something that is designed around having lots of people engaging in it, then saying the ability to skip past it will negatively impact nobody, it's obviously going to have a negative impact on those that aren't willing to pay for the boost.

A) TBC patch removes the requisites for group quests for most of the Classic content.

B) It’s already dead. The community isn’t dead, but it sure as shit doesn’t seem interested in the journey.

By that way, have you come up with a good solution for the whole botters / profession alt abuse?
Considering you brought it up, i guess you have a good solution for this issue.

There isn’t one. It’s always going to be an issue, with or without the boost. I imagine it’ll be mostly players, not bots, who use the boosts to get more profession CDs so at least there’s some silver lining.

[kukkamies]

See the problem is, you see everything as p2w. It's not. It will never be p2w. There's absolutely nothing about the boost that gives you an edge over anyone else. But keep stamping your feet and throwing your fit and maybe, just maybe you'll convince someone who already agreed with you.

Do you honestly think skipping around 100 hours levelling isn't an edge? I would rather skip the 100 hours of waiting for raid times and buy the gear there...

[Thestrawman]

Do you honestly think skipping around 100 hours levelling isn't an edge? I would rather skip the 100 hours of waiting for raid times and buy the gear there...

An edge over whom? The people who already have level 60s and wearing t3 gear? Those are the people who have an edge. They should just nuke all the servers and make everyone level everything up from the start again. That's the only way it'll be fair right?

[kukkamies]

P2W would be a level70 with full T4, 375 Profession and EPIC mount.
Level 58 with 60% Mount and Dungeon Blues ist just P2Chill, i would call it a catchup.

I got 2 Chars at 60, one at 54 and one at 46 and i just cant't take it anymore.
Leveling suxx, dungeons suxx, cause al you read ist looking4boost.
I went back to retail, but m+ suxx and boosting is just the same shit al over again.

It was different for my first char on classic, leveling felt nice you always found groups, everybody helped each other
but once the 24/7 nolifers started to domain everything the game got bad.

It would or maybe will be the same if you have to start all over again at 1.
By the time you reach 70, the nolifers control the game and its over before it began.
If you start at 58 at least you have a couple of weeks to enjoy the game.

What if it's T4 minus one piece?

I can understand people don't like levelling. I'm fine with it using it, only want the option of a realm without boosts or old chars. Pay to catchup would still fall under p2w definition to me since it's used for pretty much any power, xp increase and such.
Would be nice to give it for all players and make it free. I'd be pretty happy with that and would even use it. But paying for it goes against me.

I don't like the boosting at all either. Friend gave some gold to join boosts and I quit shortly afterwards. TBC should remove them with the aoe cap. Or at least make it a lot slower.

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An edge over whom? The people who already have level 60s and wearing t3 gear? Those are the people who have an edge. They should just nuke all the servers and make everyone level everything up from the start again. That's the only way it'll be fair right?

An edge over anyone who doesn't have max char yet and are too poor for the boost or have morals against paying real money for advantage. There are many people without 60s or T3 gear and many poor people out there.
I've said many times that I do want fresh servers ye. Could even be fresh server with a boost for everyone and another without.

[Thestrawman]

What if it's T4 minus one piece?

I can understand people don't like levelling. I'm fine with it using it, only want the option of a realm without boosts or old chars. Pay to catchup would still fall under p2w definition to me since it's used for pretty much any power, xp increase and such.
Would be nice to give it for all players and make it free. I'd be pretty happy with that and would even use it. But paying for it goes against me.

I don't like the boosting at all either. Friend gave some gold to join boosts and I quit shortly afterwards. TBC should remove them with the aoe cap. Or at least make it a lot slower.

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An edge over anyone who doesn't have max char yet and are too poor for the boost or have morals against paying real money for advantage. There are many people without 60s or T3 gear.
I've said many times that I do want fresh servers ye. Could even be fresh server with a boost and another without.

No no no, that's clearly not good enough. That'll still give some people an unfair advantage. Which is far too p2w. It should be obvious to you.

[kukkamies]

No no no, that's clearly not good enough. That'll still give some people an unfair advantage. Which is far too p2w. It should be obvious to you.

What advantage would it give? It's not obvious. I wish you would start explaining more of your position and stop just giving vague flaming responses.

[czarek]

You miss the point, you said that due to the boost, there will be less botters and thus a better economy, i said the boost will have the opposite effect because goldfarmers will use the boost to get their bots going ASAP, which obviously leads to a worse economy.

Stick to what i say, not what you want to read into this post, i refute the claim it's going to help the economy and going further to say that will make things worse.
I didn't claim that not having a boost will somehow resolve the botting issue.

They're just going to make even more money in other areas because they can get a bunch of new bots up in no time whenever they want to.

This looks like ur thinking the 50% of toons are bots 25% are boosters 25% buy boost for gold or cash 25% are the rest... Imo payable boost will decrease quantity of bots and gold boosters. Why? Becasue gold bots and boosters are in same life circle. Blizz take one cogwheel from this machine.

[chrisnumbers]

If power of character is meaningless then nothing can ever be p2w in games where it's meaningless.

I will clarify: a boosted level 58's power is meaningless. A character's power becomes meaningful the moment it dings max level.
There is no power in being level 58. All you did was save time.
Let's go this route: What's the difference between a level 58 with 6 days /played and a level 58 with 0 days /played?

[Kralljin]

Nope. Not what I’m arguing. I’m saying it IS consistent with their product decisions ever since they moved to engagement metrics.

Which however doesn't work for a game that's not supposed to follow that design.
The entire point of Classic & TBC is to experience a game that followed a different design, not retrofit the modern design onto the old game.

This is such an utterly nonsensical arguement because it virtually justifies to bring over anything from the modern game, those very same metrics dictated them to alter the face of the game.

Like really, if you think about this arguement, it can be summed up as: TBC should be more like Retail.
And then you are surprised that some people oppose that?

A) TBC patch removes the requisites for group quests for most of the Classic content.

Dungeons are still part of the experience and there are still areas where grouping is a sound call, TBC doesn't introduce a massive powercreep to the lowlevel range where you can overpower multipe mobs at once and certain areas / quests involve that sort of thing.

B) It’s already dead. The community isn’t dead, but it sure as shit doesn’t seem interested in the journey.

Only the part of the community that convenient for your arguement.

There isn’t one. It’s always going to be an issue, with or without the boost.

There is a difference between "It's always an issue" and "They are going to exploit the shit out of it".

I imagine it’ll be mostly players, not bots, who use the boosts to get more profession CDs so at least there’s some silver lining.

Considering botters most likely have some idea about the frequency of ban waves, they can basically do the math whether it's worth to also include profession CD's onto that.
Sounds especially enticing right after a ban wave, when there are possibly months until the next one, from a pure gold PoV, those professions alts break even relatively quickly, especially if they also set up some bots on the AH to snipe cheap mats.

Blizz take one cogwheel from this machine.

And puts a turbobooster onto another one because goldfarmers don't even need to fear a ban wave anymore, they will get their bot network back within days even after the most brutal banwave, because it's perfectly fine to get a multitude of accounts, buy boosts on every single one of them and commence the botting.

You don't even need to go through the hassle of boosting these characters via dungeons anymore, you can just automatically create them and print gold for you.