how to fix the catch 22's of this game?

[Argorwal]

its quite simple fix

game needs to be much eaiser

just like it was in vanilla-wolk.

wow was popular when it was easy fun game

wow is garbage when its game designed only for mythic raiders.

50% of sub losses in first 2 months proves this.

it means they lost not only people who come back to game to give it chance but even people who played through whole Legion and BfA.

by june they will loose 80 % of players

why ? because there is literaly nothing to do in game for casual playerbase

The game is worse because it has easy content and also harder optional content you don’t have to do at all rather than only easy content?

Do you think video games with difficulty settings are bad because the higher ones are too hard for your taste?

[Hellobolis]

These aren't dev created requirements, so there is nothing to 'fix'.

While not directly created by the devs, the level of detail in the API access does heavily encourage it. If they didn't want it to exist they could easily make the API results vaguer.

which i honestly don't think is a bad idea for keys upto the weekly level. especially at keys below 10 (accurate) score just doesn't add any value.

[GreenJesus]

If a group is asking for 1300 rio for a +15 it means they want a pushed +2 run, not grinding it out to just make the time. So if you see a requirement that high you should ask yourself if you would fit in with such a group. That's why rio is useful. You should really do enough 15s, 16s, and 17s to be able to time them comfortably before you've got the experience to crush a +15, and your rio score will reflect that experience.

There are a LOT of people buying single +15 boosts sitting at around 1k rio who think this entitles them to get into any +15 group they want.

KSM is about 1350. So the requirement is basically just asking for other players that already got KSM. Like I can do 17s or higher or whatever, but there's no reason to do so for my weekly. I'd rather just do 4 15s to get the max reward. Im looking for other players that could also do 17s but are doing 15s. Im not looking for players that are stretching their ability and gear to barely time a 15.

[Accendor]

Im alliance too, a bit = 15 min depending on dungeon and key level. If its a 15, you're spammed even as alliance. Only rarely do I have to wait 15min to create a group in the 12-15 range, and we create group as dps, so need healer/tank

Seems like we live in 2 different worlds then.
I think I have never successfully created a group as DPS in the last 5 years, except when my key was already at 14/15

[ellieg]

Seems like we live in 2 different worlds then.
I think I have never successfully created a group as DPS in the last 5 years, except when my key was already at 14/15

What time do u play and what region? In NA, I do most of my groups from EST 3pm-6pm, or 10pm to midnight. Not much trouble for me from those times. Also Tuesday night can be harder to find ppl cause a lot of the good ones are raiding

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KSM is about 1350. So the requirement is basically just asking for other players that already got KSM. Like I can do 17s or higher or whatever, but there's no reason to do so for my weekly. I'd rather just do 4 15s to get the max reward. Im looking for other players that could also do 17s but are doing 15s. Im not looking for players that are stretching their ability and gear to barely time a 15.

I just finished up KSM this weekend. 5 +15s and 3 +16s. 1345 score. Thinking of grinding score a bit higher to make findings 15s for weekly easier like you said

[Magneto]

You should quit and play a game that actually respects your time instead of one that actively tries to prevent you from playing it.

Best recommendation. Meaning: Either you find loopholes to bypass the gatekeepers or you let go.

[T-34]

Best recommendation. Meaning: Either you find loopholes to bypass the gatekeepers or you let go.

Or you make your own group and take control of your own "gate".
"Gatekeeping" only exists in the heads of those that either can't admit that they are to bad to do an activity and/or are to lazy to take control of their own in-game experience.

"Gatekeeping" can't exist in a system where all have the exact same opportunity to do something.

[cface]

Seems like we live in 2 different worlds then.
I think I have never successfully created a group as DPS in the last 5 years, except when my key was already at 14/15

I play on EU, play around 20-23, and a bit later on weekends. You must play on US since you say we live in 2 different worlds.
I've geared my affliction, created groups from the get go, starting 2 keys till 10.
My main group isn't really meta either, 2 melee (arms/uh) and me as balance. Sometimes a tank will pop in and whine about melee, but replacement is found regardless

[Magneto]

Or you make your own group and take control of your own "gate".
"Gatekeeping" only exists in the heads of those that either can't admit that they are to bad to do an activity and/or are to lazy to take control of their own in-game experience.

"Gatekeeping" can't exist in a system where all have the exact same opportunity to do something.

a loophole for example is making your own group. in fact your reply in this very well thread is trying to play the gatekeeper.

[Accendor]

I play on EU, play around 20-23, and a bit later on weekends. You must play on US since you say we live in 2 different worlds.
I've geared my affliction, created groups from the get go, starting 2 keys till 10.
My main group isn't really meta either, 2 melee (arms/uh) and me as balance. Sometimes a tank will pop in and whine about melee, but replacement is found regardless

Playing on EU, Alliance.

[Kaver]

Seems like we live in 2 different worlds then.
I think I have never successfully created a group as DPS in the last 5 years, except when my key was already at 14/15

You can easily make a group as a dps if you just invite the first people (of relevant roles) who sign up. But you probably wont do that will you. Because most of you guys complaining about RIO are incredibly hypocritical. You complain that other people don't invite you, but at the same time you also wont invite a tank if he isn't high enough ilvl etc.

[Accendor]

What time do u play and what region? In NA, I do most of my groups from EST 3pm-6pm, or 10pm to midnight. Not much trouble for me from those times. Also Tuesday night can be harder to find ppl cause a lot of the good ones are raiding

Usually between 20:00 and 02:00 (not the whole time, but in that slot), but also sometimes during the day.
Result is always the same when I try to go random - and its also true for basically everyone I know (except people who just go Tank / Heal ofc.).

[T-34]

a loophole for example is making your own group. in fact your reply in this very well thread is trying to play the gatekeeper.

How can anyone "gatekeep" people if they have the exact same possibilities in-game as everyone else, including me, you and the OP?
I do hope that you aren't suggesting that people are entitled to be invited by other people?

[cface]

How can anyone "gatekeep" people if they have the exact same possibilities in-game as everyone else, including me, you and the OP?
I do hope that you aren't suggesting that people are entitled to be invited by other people?

I had a hunter joining our party, he had a wooping 50+ timed 10-14 runs, and we wanted a ranged. Turns out he was survival, but with that experience, I wanted to keep him. He played amazing and did king dps, and hard on the packs that needed a punch. Easy timed key

Just cause 10 keys don't give you anything from gear, it do give you experience, which is what I look for when inviting. I avoid people who are just there for their weekly vault, there are "weekly vault completion" groups out there for them.

[VinceVega]

There is nothing to fix.
If YOU choos to play the game completly in the PuG world without making your own groups you have to live with higher requirements to join.

If i make a group to clear, lets say normal Nathria. I just want to get through and not start to explain stuff to people who want a clear run without putting in the effort.
I wiped my way through Nathria, why should i take someone who queues for a full run wihtout ever doing progress on it?
The only thing i get is someone who can potentially blow up my raid because he does not know tactics or maybe leaves because he could have a short fuse regarding eventuall wipes.

Not saying everyone is like that, but why would i take the risk? I get nothing from it. There are enough progress groups in the tool. Just maybe not full clear groups.

If you do not have the achivemtn join groups who do progress and get it.

Same with mythic+ but even harder there because less people play heal or tank. THAT is a complet social problem nothing else. It is just to easy to blame heal/tank for everything so they don't bother with it anymore.

Healing a pug (or tanking) is so frustrating because you are immediatly insulted if you ask people to interupt from time to time and stuff like that. That is why i only play DPS in Mythic+ anymore.

[klogaroth]

It's not a catch 22. You just don't want to take on the solution.

Make your own group goes beyond running your own key. It also means being even vaguely social. Having a bunch of people you know somewhat, asking if anyone has halls 15, and doing halls 15. Maybe you fill out the rest of the group with people you know, maybe you pug some of the spots. You don't need to invite them to your wedding. You barely need to speak beyond arranging keys and doing keys if you don't want to.

Just the most basic levels of continuation of a relationship vastly increases your access to keys.

[thunderdragon2]

If that was a possibility for them, they probably wouldn't be here. O_o

correct it's not always a possibility for me to play with friend or guildies that's why i went to pugging

[vashe9]

Don't PUG and find a guild

/thread

[thunderdragon2]

It's not a catch 22. You just don't want to take on the solution.

Make your own group goes beyond running your own key. It also means being even vaguely social. Having a bunch of people you know somewhat, asking if anyone has halls 15, and doing halls 15. Maybe you fill out the rest of the group with people you know, maybe you pug some of the spots. You don't need to invite them to your wedding. You barely need to speak beyond arranging keys and doing keys if you don't want to.

Just the most basic levels of continuation of a relationship vastly increases your access to keys.

believe me i've tried making my own groups for this stuff, raids its fine but when it comes to m+... even with exp

let me give you an example, i had a 14 spires a few days ago since i wasn't getting invited to the 2 dungeons i needed i decided to take the advice of some people here and make my own grp, i only took people with 1150 score or higher which meant they had atleast half of the dungeons in time on a 14. and we still failed the key just to the shaman we had dieing a lot and not paying attention when we called for hero on the last non boss mob of the instance causing a wipe.

i get that you win some and lose some but still.......

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Don't PUG and find a guild

/thread

i am in a guild most of the people in it tho are still working through this pandemic so i dont have much choice but to pug if i want to do keys, unless i want to spam them all during the weekend when more guildies become avalible

[kamuimac]

The game is worse because it has easy content and also harder optional content you don’t have to do at all rather than only easy content?

Do you think video games with difficulty settings are bad because the higher ones are too hard for your taste?

i dont care about diffiulty settings - for all i care we could have 15 difficulty settings of raids and 187287318273 dififculty settings of m+


what i do care about is casual players having constant progress of their chars regardless of difficulty on which they play

and for this char progress allowing them to do+1 on difficulty scale after some time with relative ease

they dont have it atm . thats why >50 % of playerbase left game . and by the time 9.1 lands it will be between 70-80 % of playerbase gone with how they fucked up VP system .