Sylvanas won't be getting redemption.

[meroko]

I think it's fairly obvious Sylvanas and Anduin are already working together, the cinematic where she turns him abruptly cuts off. I don't think she turned him at all, I think he's secretly pretending to do Jailer's bidding to get close to him and take him out. He'll probably fail though.

[Smallfruitbat]

What I want to happen is that while we're fighting Sylvanas, the Jailer turns on her and kill steals. We can then spend endless ages speculating as to why the Jailer betrayed her. Years later in a random Q&A, we discover its just because he's an asshole. In the meantime, the apologists can rest happily in their head canon.

While the Jailer is at it, I'd be greatful if he could put Tyrande out of her (our) misery. Blizzard have spent so much time neutering and butchering her character, its frankly embarrassing now.

[Ophenia]

I think it's fairly obvious Sylvanas and Anduin are already working together, the cinematic where she turns him abruptly cuts off. I don't think she turned him at all, I think he's secretly pretending to do Jailer's bidding to get close to him and take him out. He'll probably fail though.

Well we'll most likely go the "double twist!!" route.
- New "in-between" cinematic where we see Anduin and Sylvanas agree on the fact it's the only way to succeed against the Jailer, making us think Sylv has finally understood her ally is not a good guy
- Then *BAM* all that was just the plan all along just to lower Anduin's defense and making him accept the deal.

That's the only way for me to not puke at Shadowlands ending. Everything goes wrong in last raid, we're turning to Sylvanas we truly thought was with us, just for her to go "lol nope, you are all N U T H I N G", and then we kamehameha her with another Magical Device You Can Only Use Once™ and that's it, she's vaporized and we're all happy for a few minutes.

[Kumorii]

I think it's fairly obvious Sylvanas and Anduin are already working together, the cinematic where she turns him abruptly cuts off. I don't think she turned him at all, I think he's secretly pretending to do Jailer's bidding to get close to him and take him out. He'll probably fail though.

Doubt it. Don't think Anduin would willingly be puppetered and stab someone... Sylvanas trying to make Anduin join willingly so she can turn on the Jailor is probably true though.

[Soon-TM]

@Omedon if the end of BfA is any hint, they will have absolutely no qualms in rewriting those iconic lines. Something like "bright lady watch over you", or even better, "victory for Turalyon".

[Verdugo]

@Omedon if the end of BfA is any hint, they will have absolutely no qualms in rewriting those iconic lines. Something like "bright lady watch over you", or even better, "victory for Turalyon".

It will be two voicelines from two different actors awkwardly spliced together.

[OwenBurton]

Not only is your opening statement wrong, but Tyrande doesn't shoot arrows anymore. So no, she won't be getting either of those either. So far, 0/2, nice.


They showed how she was struggling emotionally with the decision she was trying to force on to Anduin, they also showed how she is not at peace with Zovals decisions either. Whether they give her redemption or not. Her bringing us to the shadowlands is the only reason we will be saved from his plans. So in the end, she's the person we needed to do what she did, like it or not.

It depends. Whether you believe Sylvanas is still "redeemable" or not. Apparently Kael'thas still is, and obviously Illidan, and other former enemies as well. I think just killing her would solve very little, practically. Perhaps Sylvanas could redeem herself by watching over the Shadowlands, or the Maw, for the rest of eternity, several thousand years of service in such a position could help atone for some of her mistakes, arguably. I thought that would be Bolvar's job after this expansion, if he does not return to Azeroth, either to Acherus or rejoining Anduin and the Alliance death knights in Stormwind. But perhaps Sylvanas is naturally better suited, in many different ways. She understands firsthand the true nature of evil and oblivion and death far better than any Lich King possibly could. After all, Bolvar was not a cold man in life, but Sylvanas arguably was.

Still a warrior's heart? She had grown cold. No, she was the same. In death as in life.

[Grazrug]

Not redeemd. But vindicated.

[LionSinMaikeru]

Popular opinion is that she is getting redeemed next raid or sometime shortly after it. I very much doubt it, her slicing Anduin with Shalamourne was the last final straw for her. It's the sign that she's finally truly broken with the last vestige of her mortality and morality.

.

Why would you think that?

It's clear from her face in that cinematic she's concerned for what is happening to Anduin.

I don't think for a mili-second that she's truly evil / is perfectly aligned with the Jailer. Everyone believes she is because she NEEDS the Jailer to think she is. Personally, I believe she's waiting for the right moment to take him out and become ruler of the Shadowlands herself so she can rewrite the afterlife and make sure everyone has a fair chance at a happy ending.

[Ophenia]

and make sure everyone has a fair chance at a happy ending.

But since when does Sylvanas care about the other people than herself ?

[LionSinMaikeru]

But since when does Sylvanas care about the other people than herself ?

I think her first thought is definitely ensuring a happy ending for herself + her sisters. I think that the vision she had in WoTLK of her afterlife was enough to scare her and cause her to start on this "plot" of hers. Her main focus is ensuring her and her sisters can be together for eternity.

But I do believe she genuinely cares for her people. She has fought for them and defended them against those who they'd be easy pickings for. I think she believes that the afterlife she saw awaits ALL of her people, so in her mind siding with the Jailer was for the greater good until she can get control and change the ending of their stories.

[Shadowferal]

But since when does Sylvanas care about the other people than herself ?

Writers writing out-of-character behavior...

[Sorrowseer]

My theory is that this rewriting of Sylv has a lot to do with Afrasiabi quitting/getting booted from Blizz by the end of BfA. He was personally writing Sylvanas, thus we got the comical, moustache-twirling villain of BfA. But Afrasiabi sits in Irvine no longer, so Danuser will try his best to make his waifu look at least a little better.

Remember, we're talking about the same Danuser who outright censured the b**** word in the meeting between Sylvanas and Garrosh in Silverpine - even if it fits Sylv like a glove, on top of being very much in-character for Garry to use such language, especially with someone he thoroughly disliked.

I am 99% sure thats because of irl moral standards being too wimpy about strong words about even fictional people.

[Powerogue]

I could compare what we saw to Illidan's fakeout redemption arc with the naaru. "ooh, is Illidan going to be all redeemed and become a light-demon? NOPE, I AM MY SCARS."



Now I do think they're building to Sylvanas turning on the Jailer, but I don't think she'll be redeemed in the process.

I think her first thought is definitely ensuring a happy ending for herself + her sisters. I think that the vision she had in WoTLK of her afterlife was enough to scare her and cause her to start on this "plot" of hers. Her main focus is ensuring her and her sisters can be together for eternity.

But I do believe she genuinely cares for her people. She has fought for them and defended them against those who they'd be easy pickings for. I think she believes that the afterlife she saw awaits ALL of her people, so in her mind siding with the Jailer was for the greater good until she can get control and change the ending of their stories.

No and octuple no. 1) the Three Sisters comic, where she was more than up for killing and zombifying her sisters. It's not empathy, but hopelessness that makes her believe her twisted undead existence is better than the "false hope" of life. Of believing enemies could see past their differences. Of believing families could be reunited.

2)

"I did pity the forsaken."

Baine did more to preserve the lives and way of the forsaken in BFA than Sylvanas did. Look at the story so far, with the "heroes who held azeroth together" team that we've mostly rescued, and the "villains out to destroy everything we love" team. Who is on which team?

[Maxilian]

Personally I think she will just end up regretting her actions and sacrificing herself as a form of "redemption", is it true redemption? Nope, she still committed genocide, but at least is a step forward, and also people will get what they want (in the sense that she dies), though I would prefer if she doesn't die, and just end up being "jailed" by Tyrande for her transgression against her people (Like an Illidan prison 2.0, maybe a little more cruel to "pay her back" for the suffering she have caused and to push Tyrande in a more "darker" path, like having her be supper nice to her allies, and extremely cruel to her enemies)

[Wangming]

At this point I don't think there is a good way to end the Sylvanas story.

On one hand her moustache twirling cartoon villain antics were dumb and uncharacteristic. On the other hand redeeming her after all this would be a huge middle finger to both Alliance (Burning of Teldrassil, turning of Anduin) and Horde (assassins againt Thrall, Saurfang murdered, the Horde is NOTHIIIIIIING) players.
She needs to die. BUT: The Forsaken are pretty much her personal cult. She freed them from the Lich King. She named them the Forsaken. They use Dark Lady watch over you and Victory for Sylvanas in everyday conversations. Their entire culture will need to be redefined.

The best would be to use Chromie to somehow undo BfA and do something else instead.

- - - Updated - - -

Personally I think she will just end up regretting her actions and sacrificing herself as a form of "redemption", is it true redemption? Nope, she still committed genocide, but at least is a step forward, and also people will get what they want (in the sense that she dies), though I would prefer if she doesn't die, and just end up being "jailed" by Tyrande for her transgression against her people (Like an Illidan prison 2.0, maybe a little more cruel to "pay her back" for the suffering she have caused and to push Tyrande in a more "darker" path, like having her be supper nice to her allies, and extremely cruel to her enemies)

I'm pretty sure there are good fanfics around with that as a story.

[BrintoSFJ]

>commits genocide on an entire race leaving them almost wiped out
>aw feeling a bit sad because her master is an asshole and she has to coerce Anduin

People actually falling for this shit writing ITT lmfao

Simple logic is hard thing to understand these days. People have to complicate the most obvious thing and act like a bunch of snobs to look cool and educated.

[Maxilian]

At this point I don't think there is a good way to end the Sylvanas story.

On one hand her moustache twirling cartoon villain antics were dumb and uncharacteristic. On the other hand redeeming her after all this would be a huge middle finger to both Alliance (Burning of Teldrassil, turning of Anduin) and Horde (assassins againt Thrall, Saurfang murdered, the Horde is NOTHIIIIIIING) players.
She needs to die. BUT: The Forsaken are pretty much her personal cult. She freed them from the Lich King. She named them the Forsaken. They use Dark Lady watch over you and Victory for Sylvanas in everyday conversations. Their entire culture will need to be redefined.

The best would be to use Chromie to somehow undo BfA and do something else instead.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm pretty sure there are good fanfics around with that as a story.

Sadly, yeah, is not easy to end the story of her at this point, someone is going to get the short stick, either way, though for the Forsaken, I guess she could make a last service to them by sending back her Valkyrs to serve the Forsaken and that way they don't have to deal again with the whole "how do we create more Forsaken" story, but more of "How do we approach the creating more Forsaken without repeating the past"

And... well the Tyrande and Sylvanas fanfic, we all know how all those end, and... yeah, no.

[Eosia]

The Sylvanas ending has already been written. Been so since 2013.

Here's a preview...

[Wangming]

Sadly, yeah, is not easy to end the story of her at this point, someone is going to get the short stick, either way, though for the Forsaken, I guess she could make a last service to them by sending back her Valkyrs to serve the Forsaken and that way they don't have to deal again with the whole "how do we create more Forsaken" story, but more of "How do we approach the creating more Forsaken without repeating the past"

10.0 would be the best time for a revamp. Or hell, maybe even a relaunch. The Forsaken need new voice lines because all references to Sylvanas will need to disappear as it is unlikely they still worship her as a whole. The Pandaren need a completely new culture as they have spent ten thousand years keeping the Sha in check yet the Sha threat being effectively over since MoP has not been adressed yet. Over half the races lack their starting zones and plenty other still linger in the past (why hello there Duskwood).