Wow Players Want Easy... Easy Runs, Easy Gear

[ONCHEhap]

I mean that system works well for runescape where players vote on what is added to the game. The only time it backfired was when the devs tried to sneak something past that system.

I don't understand why the idea that the community can simply demonstrate what it wants is somehow inferior to some devs pet project. Can you name a new system that was well liked since mage tower?

I mean,a lot of the most hated features of the game are things the players asked for,such as LFR,endless grinds,titanforging,removing titanforging,pruning,unpruning,more focus on raids,less focus on raids (yeah there are a lot of things that were added and then removed because people whined),PvP templates,valor in its many forms,and then the lack of valor,garrisons....

The list goes on and on,almost every hated feature the game has had in the past decade and more were almost direct player requests

[kenn9530]

Except that's counter to what Blizzard needs. They want subs. They want people to spend money on the game. If you have a large chunk of players that quit shortly after an expansion launches and then only poke in on big patches, that's a lot of lost revenue.

Again, people want meaningful content with meaningful rewards. Achievements may be to some, but certainly not to all. They want to feel as though their characters are improving. Getting stronger. Not to the same extent that people doing higher end content, but there should be an achievable delta between the two.

They dont really need the subs WoW is not the big money maker anymore they just do the bare minimum to keep it going, if they were to add more content for casual player that probably still would quit early on then the stuff WoW do good at would end up suffering and then you would lose the players that usually stay subbed.

WoW just offers you rewards for the content your do currently and thats the best way, casual players are more than rewarded for what content they do, doing harder content is what makes the character stronger, if you dont do that content you wont get any stronger and have no need to.

And thats exactly what happens every expansion. People exhaust the content thats appropriate for them, hit the wall for whatever reason and leave.

A player who usually quits is still going to quit regardless of what content is available, at a certain point your going to be doing the same stuff over and over and if your not raiding then your probs going to quit for a while, blizz are not good at delivering long term casual content.

[Electric Lighter]

I mean,a lot of the most hated features of the game are things the players asked for,such as LFR,endless grinds,titanforging,removing titanforging,pruning,unpruning,more focus on raids,less focus on raids (yeah there are a lot of things that were added and then removed because people whined),PvP templates,valor in its many forms,and then the lack of valor,garrisons....

The list goes on and on,almost every hated feature the game has had in the past decade and more were almost direct player requests

I don't recall most of those being player requests. I will admit some drummed up a lot of support before they were implemented but very few were received well once the players had them in their hands or on beta.

That is why I see as a voting system as being positive. Have blizzard give an outline of the system and let players say yes or no with some milestone to open up the vote.

[Violent]

Ah yes, and who better to tell Blizzard how to develop their games than random forum users who don't have access to the information they do and, you know, just fucking guess about shit.

I'm sure you have access to better data on player engagement than they do. Yup.

Why do you people act like data is such a "Guarded Secret"?? Everyone/Anyone can look up quarterly earnings, Everyone/Anyone can correlate, collect, and condense "data".
You don't have to BE Wal-Mart to know Wal-Mart was killin it. You don't have the BE Gamestop to see the shit tank.
Just because you don't know how, doesn't mean no one else does.
Aaaand let's not forget, last but not least, EVEN WITH all the "data" any given company "gets more of" than someone else, they STILL make WRONG/BAD business decisions.

The both of you are as bad as a welfare mother clamoring for more Gov. control because you think it'll mean more $$. Hop off the Blizz-D.

YUP.

[Unholyground]

The problem is the types of content WoW has and the lack of evolution within each. There's no reason they couldn't have dungeons that were randomly generated with mythic difficulties for one. They could also do the same for raids. That's not even adding new styles of content it is just naturally evolving existing content. Professions also need to be able to create current raid level gear that is another thing that needs to be fixed.

[jellmoo]

They dont really need the subs WoW is not the big money maker anymore they just do the bare minimum to keep it going, if they were to add more content for casual player that probably still would quit early on then the stuff WoW do good at would end up suffering and then you would lose the players that usually stay subbed.

That is simply not true. at all. WoW is still the big money earner for Blizzard. It still rakes in cash, and they stil really, really, really want to acquire new subs and retain those that are subbed. There isn't a single business model they could employ that would be like "eh, who cares if we have subs". People quit when they get bored. It's as simple as that. If you continue to engage them, they are less likely to quit. If you give them content they want to do, instead of trying to funnel them into content they don't want to do, they are far more likely to stick around for a longer period of time.

WoW just offers you rewards for the content your do currently and thats the best way, casual players are more than rewarded for what content they do, doing harder content is what makes the character stronger, if you dont do that content you wont get any stronger and have no need to.

Again, this is not about needing higher level gear. It's not. It's about content and reward. It's about giving players the content they want to do, and having that content be meaningful. Nobody is suggesting that casual players get gear that equals or surpasses that of hardcore players. Just that there is a lot of room between the two levels, where you could add extra rewards for more content that casual players like. Let them feel like they are progressing, even if they never hit the level of the hardcore players.

It's not about needing better gear. It's about the content and giving people an incentive to play it.

[RobertMugabe]

There is a lot of contention between casual and hardcore player base.... and how our rewards for gameplay should be implemented

Some people say they deserve better gear or better rewards, because they do different content they perceive as being more substantial. In reality though, everyone chooses the path of least resistance, we always choose the easy way.

That's why there is META for mythic dungeons... people want the classes that make the runs easier for them

That's why there is META in Arena... people people want the easiest chance to win

That's why there is class stacking, and guilds choose the OP dejour for Race to World First

In any RPG MMO, the player wants his/her character to feel stronger next week than it did last week.... no matter what content you choose to enjoy.

Blizzard needs to either balance it's classes with equal AOE and single target, or they need to come up with upgrade systems for every style of player, because no one wants to play an mmo and feel like their character is stagnating

Thanks for saying the most obvious thing known in this game.

[kenn9530]

Because casual PvP modes like random BGs and warmode still require gear to survive. I don't get a choice of my opponents in those and I can easily be forced to fight mythic raiders all day. Are you saying I should be forced to mythic raid or gladiator PvP just to finally be allowed to enjoy random BGs or turn warmode on?

PvP is still not casual content even the normal BGs, still means your trying to do content that is outside your capability, warmode atm is just pointless really.

That is simply not true. at all. WoW is still the big money earner for Blizzard. It still rakes in cash, and they stil really, really, really want to acquire new subs and retain those that are subbed. There isn't a single business model they could employ that would be like "eh, who cares if we have subs". People quit when they get bored. It's as simple as that. If you continue to engage them, they are less likely to quit. If you give them content they want to do, instead of trying to funnel them into content they don't want to do, they are far more likely to stick around for a longer period of time.



Again, this is not about needing higher level gear. It's not. It's about content and reward. It's about giving players the content they want to do, and having that content be meaningful. Nobody is suggesting that casual players get gear that equals or surpasses that of hardcore players. Just that there is a lot of room between the two levels, where you could add extra rewards for more content that casual players like. Let them feel like they are progressing, even if they never hit the level of the hardcore players.

It's not about needing better gear. It's about the content and giving people an incentive to play it.

Have you not looked at the financials, while WoW itself makes a good chuck of money its only about 25% of the companies revenue, its the other sources of income that make most of the money for the company. WoW is not the bread winner for the company anymore.

If blizzard really cared about subs they would focus more on a wider range of quality content, they dont do that and stick to the easy path to making money for the least amount of effort.

Your going on about rewards, the player already get rewards with easy access to decent gear, what other rewards do you want and your also wanting to get stronger, which you are unable to do without better gear, if a player never steps into raids or PvP then they wont be able to progress the character in anything but acheivements or other stuff they do ingame.

[Tadkins]

PvP is still not casual content even the normal BGs, still means your trying to do content that is outside your capability, warmode atm is just pointless really.

Random BGs are not casual content?

Have you not looked at the financials, while WoW itself makes a good chuck of money its only about 25% of the companies revenue, its the other sources of income that make most of the money for the company. WoW is not the bread winner for the company anymore.

If blizzard really cared about subs they would focus more on a wider range of quality content, they dont do that and stick to the easy path to making money for the least amount of effort.

Your going on about rewards, the player already get rewards with easy access to decent gear, what other rewards do you want and your also wanting to get stronger, which you are unable to do without better gear, if a player never steps into raids or PvP then they wont be able to progress the character in anything but acheivements or other stuff they do ingame.

Because everyone likes to see their characters get stronger, even if you're just doing world quests or random battlegrounds. And if that is not happening, if that is not available, then what is the point in continuing to play the game?

What was so wrong with a casual player being able to slowly get conquest and slowly upgrade their gear through non-rated PvP?

I am currently not subbed to the game as I don't have a working computer, but even once I do I am second-guessing my choice to come back, because it feels like I'm only going to be crapped on and treated like a second-class citizen if I do. I really get the feeling Blizzard has nothing but contempt for non-champion level players at this point.

[kenn9530]

Random BGs are not casual content?


Because everyone likes to see their characters get stronger, even if you're just doing world quests or random battlegrounds. And if that is not happening, if that is not available, then what is the point in continuing to play the game?

What was so wrong with a casual player being able to slowly get conquest and slowly upgrade their gear through non-rated PvP?

I am currently not subbed to the game as I don't have a working computer, but even once I do I am second-guessing my choice to come back, because it feels like I'm only going to be crapped on and treated like a second-class citizen if I do. I really get the feeling Blizzard has nothing but contempt for non-champion level players at this point.

No PvP is casual content, it still requires a little knowledge and skill.

If you dont do the content that rewards better gear, why should a player get gear that others get by actually doing more challenging content, casuals dont need that gear, and then you get cases of overgeared casual players trying harder content and screwing it up for those players, casuals should be stuck with lower gear because they dont put in the effort to get better gear simple as that.

[Tadkins]

If you dont do the content that rewards better gear, why should a player get gear that others get by actually doing more challenging content, casuals dont need that gear, and then you get cases of overgeared casual players trying harder content and screwing it up for those players, casuals should be stuck with lower gear because they dont put in the effort to get better gear simple as that.

I just explained why casuals do need that gear, because PvP does not give you the option of your opponents, and a WQer will just as easily be forced to fight a mythic raider. From a PvE standpoint, it would be like a heroic dungeon player randomly fighting a +15 mythic plus version of a boss in there. There's a good reason to have options there that do not rely on already being a champion level player. Even if it's slower, there should always be a path to progression, otherwise what is the point of even playing?

If not gear, then ilvl brackets or templates would be fine as well.

[kenn9530]

I just explained why casuals do need that gear, because PvP does not give you the option of your opponents, and a WQer will just as easily be forced to fight a mythic raider. From a PvE standpoint, it would be like a heroic dungeon player randomly fighting a +15 mythic plus version of a boss in there. There's a good reason to have options there that do not rely on already being a champion level player. Even if it's slower, there should always be a path to progression, otherwise what is the point of even playing?

If not gear, then ilvl brackets or templates would be fine as well.

They dont need that gear though and if you dont do content that requires better gear they dont deserve it plain and simple, if you want the gear do the content that will reward you, WQ there is no reason to have WM on it rewards a little gold and anima so its not essential and no matter the gear the casual player will still die to a more skilled player.

A casual player should never be able to get the highest level loot no matter how slow if they dont do the content that rewards it.

[Shiekyerbooty]

They dont need that gear though and if you dont do content that requires better gear they dont deserve it plain and simple, if you want the gear do the content that will reward you, WQ there is no reason to have WM on it rewards a little gold and anima so its not essential and no matter the gear the casual player will still die to a more skilled player.

A casual player should never be able to get the highest level loot no matter how slow if they don't do the content that rewards it.

Really though... WoW is not rocket surgery... most people can do interrupts and cast spells... it's just comes down to what content they choose to do that in

What's makes interrupting a healer in an arena more special than interrupting a boss during a world quest ?

[Argorwal]

I miss the old days when clearing the raid was binary. Everything was a logic progression. You did dungeons until you could do raids. You did the first raid until you could do the next one and so on. Other gear could be obtained on the side to help advance after awhile. It was good.

Many people referred to this as “raid or die” and hated it.

Some loved it.

[Tadkins]

They dont need that gear though and if you dont do content that requires better gear they dont deserve it plain and simple, if you want the gear do the content that will reward you, WQ there is no reason to have WM on it rewards a little gold and anima so its not essential and no matter the gear the casual player will still die to a more skilled player.

A casual player should never be able to get the highest level loot no matter how slow if they dont do the content that rewards it.

There are achievements and such associated with WM so it is something that should be open to everyone. Same with random battlegrounds, for the longest time it used to be casual content with gearing options. That is no longer the case.

No one is advocating for the highest ilvl loot, but enough to be able to survive should be in there. You're seriously claiming that I should be trying to mythic raid or become a keystone master just so I can be allowed to play in random battlegrounds.

What is the point of playing if I can't progress? Why would I continue to pay for a game if I'm just going to be beaten up by other players with no chance to fight back?

[Argorwal]

And thats exactly what happens every expansion. People exhaust the content thats appropriate for them, hit the wall for whatever reason and leave.

Pretty much this.

It’s been happening since forever, is a normal way to play video games.

Playing the same game for years with no breaks sounds awful.

[Tadkins]

Playing the same game for years with no breaks sounds awful.

I've played WoW mostly for years straight, with only maybe a few small breaks here and there.

It used to be a very engaging game and I almost always had something to do.

[chiddie]

Yeah, but if they want to continue playing that character, they hit a wall. The game funnels them into either:

- Continue as you were but you no longer get meaningful rewards
- Move onto content type you don't want to do

There isn't a system in place for them to continue to progress and acquire meaningful upgrades (even if far lower than those doing more difficult content). It just stops.

Imho Blizzard either failed hard in assigning ilvl to WQ and covenant gear (too high) or in assigning ilvl to M+/Raid (too low).

You can get up to around 200 without setting foot in M+ and at that point you open wowhead and discover that to get an item upgrade at the end of the dungeon you have to run at least a +10, that you cannot run not because of your ilvl gear but because you have zero experience and noone will take you with zero rio and even in case you’ll be steamrolled because, again, zero M+ experience. As soon as you discover you have to run all the hill to get to the point you’ll have upgrades and that will take ages, you’ll give up. I mean, I’m 208 and did more or less 70 M+, no way my guildie who got to 200 basically hanging around and looting boars’ skins will do that to have so little improvement.

Unfortunately when you reach WQ Max ilvl items it’s either PvP, M+ or raid if you wanna go past ilvl 200.

[Argorwal]

Imho Blizzard either failed hard in assigning ilvl to WQ and covenant gear (too high) or in assigning ilvl to M+/Raid (too low).

You can get up to around 200 without setting foot in M+ and at that point you open wowhead and discover that to get an item upgrade at the end of the dungeon you have to run at least a +10, that you cannot run not because of your ilvl gear but because you have zero experience and noone will take you with zero rio and even in case you’ll be steamrolled because, again, zero M+ experience. As soon as you discover you have to run all the hill to get to the point you’ll have upgrades and that will take ages, you’ll give up. I mean, I’m 208 and did more or less 70 M+, no way my guildie who got to 200 basically hanging around and looting boars’ skins will do that to have so little improvement.

Unfortunately when you reach WQ Max ilvl items it’s either PvP, M+ or raid if you wanna go past ilvl 200.

I mean, that is the idea?

You need to push into other more difficult parts of the game to get better gear once you’ve plateaus at the difficulty you’re at?

Harder content, greater rewards?

Should people be able to WQ to 226? Really?

I’m sure some would say yes.

[Tadkins]

Should people be able to WQ to 226? Really?

I just don't want to have to fight mythic plus 15 bosses in my heroic dungeons, that's all. That's basically what it is when it comes to PvP right now.