Gearing alts feel so stupid now

[Chin]

Win or lose its free honor and much easier to gear than previous

[Enclave]

Win or lose its free honor and much easier to gear than previous

Honor is nothing right now, honor gets you 197 ilvl which cant compete for anything above 1500

25 / 35 conquest for a win is a joke and must be increased

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMd2l33WR8g

[damneddog]

It is impossible to have a rogue at 80k with basic buff like Fort etc. It must have been a battlemaster health boost + some other buff like banner and the druid's hp buff. I have around 80k hp when i am self buffing with cooldowns like desperate prayer, battlemaster + banner. If a rogue is playing battlemasters trinket, he is somewhat less of a threat than on use DPS trinket i'd say... Eitherway, ilvl now is consistent where if you max your character out at ilvl226, you will get around +/- 40500/41500 hp. around there. My ilvl226 priest with fort has 42500 hp.

Yes full honor starting out at ilvl158 is garbage, but this was the starting gear when the season started out. we are near end of season 1, so you can't compare your gear with the gear that others have played for. it will be easier to gear via mythics now for you as entry point to pvp, or just form a YOLO PUG group and gain honor/conquest that way. The way the MMR works is that you will eventually fight a team with the same MMR as you, so its all about queuing up and playing really... when the next season is about to start, blizzard will make everyone be able to gear up the conquests gear to allow ilvl226 so that everyone is on par to start out season2. this has always been the trend, to balance the playing field due to early starters vs late starters. they have already done this via mythic+ with valor point upgrades to ilvl220.

Get your conquest now which is up to 7700 cap. Previously these guys with high ilvl had to grind weekly to cap their 550 conquests for gears. You guys can easily gear up ilvl200 as long as you play your rated bg without caring about winning/losing. even if you won like 5 games out of 30 games, you will get close to 1k rating. I think it would take you around 10rbg wins for 1400 rating which is ilvl207 gear. RBG gives better honor and que times compared to normal BG too. As long as your MMR is low, you will be paired with teams similar to your MMR. When you start winning, the game will pair you with much higher rating teams, in which if you lose, you will still have rating unchanged (lost 0 points), and you will drop back down your MMR for the next game. Some times winning 3 games in a row at low CR, will suddenly pair you with 1600 cr teams. you will definitely lose due to gear disadvantage, but if you win, you gain a lot of points that boosts you to your next bracket. all i got to say is, just keep playing your games and eventually, you will gear up, and you will get better.

In normal bg, you will sometimes face enemy teams with some super duper gear. that is because they probably just hit a new bracket, and afraid that losing in rated will drop their current rating that they cannot upgrade their gear. so if they just achieved 1800 rival, they are going to farm all their honor to upgrade to ilvl220 before playing rated again. sometimes you are in luck with these type of players in your normal battleground. same is true for those who hit 2100cr (ilvl226), they need a lot of honor to upgrade their items, and you will definitely see them playing a lot of normal bgs. i guess this is one way to make the better geared players que for normal bgs, and help the lower geared players.

[Necromantic]

There is an inherent flaw in the BG matchmaking system where 1 player = 1 player regardless of their gear quality.
Imho blizzard should not allow gear quality in PVP to make such a cataclysmic difference in HP and DPS.

But if they insist on that then they should separate BG matchmaking into "200ilvl and below" and "201ilvl and above".
If queue times would become a problem then a gear scaling system can boost poorly geared ppl to 200ilvl or reduce the ilvl of great gear down to 200ilvl.

Top quality gear should not be allowed to ruin unranked PVP where the majority of players are poorly geared.
Its basically the same situation with "twinks" that ruined low level pvp for over a decade until blizz finally separated them from regular BGs.

I agree. When it comes to PVP, it should be about how good you are at using your abilities, timing moves, strafing, strategizing, etc. Not about "who has the most purps". That depletes the purpose behind "player vs player." Better gear should account for higher level game content.

That's just my opinion.

[erifwodahs]

My shaman in full honor pvp gear (158) has 22,000 health.
People in 190-200 PVP gear seem to be having around 33,500 health give or take.
Saw a rogue yesterday who had a bit over 80,000 health.

I have not played PVP all that consistently in the past few expansions.
But i dont remember there ever being such a colossal difference between starter PVP gear and good/great pvp gear.
Someone having triple or even quadruple my health (and i guess even bigger difference in DPS) is just gameplay crushing & unfun since you can't do anything and you are dragging your team down.

tank here with 61k hp 224 gear. I call bs.

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This is basically why I don't PVP. I enjoy instanced PVP occasionally and did most of my PVP between BC, Wrath, and Cata, but if you only play PVP events occasionally you'll never have good enough gear to be competitive. So I just stick to PVE now.

if u did not grind your ass in tbc pvp - your ass was deleted by people with 300-400 res. You literally had to farm 100k honor to get geared in bgs and weeks upon weeks of arenas, so yeah, nah.

[crusadernero]

Win or lose its free honor and much easier to gear than previous

yeah sure, but you need ALOT of honor. Cant recall the numbers on the top of my head, but you need so much its stupid. If you have a fresh 60 character, dont even bother doing pvp for gear at all. Just quickly get into mythic+ runs and gear up there. Running bgs over and over for honor will take you forever to reach decent gear levels.

The entry level pvp gear is ilevel 158(!) and from there you gotta ugrade it.

[erifwodahs]

If queue times would become a problem then a gear scaling system can boost poorly geared ppl

you must have missed whole bfa... no one who likes pvp liked that.

[Aleksej89]

tank here with 61k hp 224 gear. I call bs.

Not sure what kind of tank you are, in BGs i regularly see tanks who are close to or even above 100,000 health.
Either way just join battlegrounds (especially "epic" ones) and you will soon see DPS who sport 60,000 health and more.

The entry level pvp gear is ilevel 158(!) and from there you gotta ugrade it.

Yea for alts i found it by far the easiest to get full Covenant armor that is upgraded to 197 (nine pieces in total), you can easily get that in two or three days if you do not waste Anima on anything else.
Completing Covenant campaign also gives you a token for LFR quality weapon.
LFR can net you something if you are lucky and it enables the Great Vault rewards for that week.
World Bosses (including wrath of jailer) can also net you an item if luck is on your side.

If after all that you still got item slots that are not at least LFR quality then get PVP honor (or conquest if u can) gear for those slots and upgrade it.

[erifwodahs]

Not sure what kind of tank you are, in BGs i regularly see tanks who are close to or even above 100,000 health.
Either way just join battlegrounds (especially "epic" ones) and you will soon see DPS who sport 60,000 health and more.

So you are talking Ashran. Way to put a point mate. Some tanks, like DHs can have more HP, but but it's not going to be 100k hp. Tanks. Seeing 60k rogue, sure buddy. It's like saying "I can swim 40mph" and forget to mention that a jetboat is dragging you on a waterboard.

[Necromantic]

if u did not grind your ass in tbc pvp - your ass was deleted by people with 300-400 res. You literally had to farm 100k honor to get geared in bgs and weeks upon weeks of arenas, so yeah, nah.

You're not wrong there. And that was the problem.

Vanilla had PVP right where it should be. People in blues/greens killing people in purples just because they were good at PVP.

[archelos91]

There is an inherent flaw in the BG matchmaking system where 1 player = 1 player regardless of their gear quality.
Imho blizzard should not allow gear quality in PVP to make such a cataclysmic difference in HP and DPS.

But if they insist on that then they should separate BG matchmaking into "200ilvl and below" and "201ilvl and above".
If queue times would become a problem then a gear scaling system can boost poorly geared ppl to 200ilvl or reduce the ilvl of great gear down to 200ilvl.

Top quality gear should not be allowed to ruin unranked PVP where the majority of players are poorly geared.
Its basically the same situation with "twinks" that ruined low level pvp for over a decade until blizz finally separated them from regular BGs.

Poor idea, people would just equip gear to get them to the exact threshold of 200. Why play vs 220+ when you have at max 201 ilvl? i would downgrade my gear to be in the top of the lower bracket. Essentially youd be twinking max lvl pvp.

[erifwodahs]

You're not wrong there. And that was the problem.

Vanilla had PVP right where it should be. People in blues/greens killing people in purples just because they were good at PVP.

Vanilla had pvp where developers did not even consider pvp balance.

[munkeyinorbit]

My shaman in full honor pvp gear (158) has 22,000 health.
People in 190-200 PVP gear seem to be having around 33,500 health give or take.
Saw a rogue yesterday who had a bit over 80,000 health.

I have not played PVP all that consistently in the past few expansions.
But i dont remember there ever being such a colossal difference between starter PVP gear and good/great pvp gear.
Someone having triple or even quadruple my health (and i guess even bigger difference in DPS) is just gameplay crushing & unfun since you can't do anything and you are dragging your team down.

You are mistaken. Starter PvP gear is 200ish. Wearing 158 is just trash tier "I dinged 6 minutes ago" gear. When you are comparing yourself to the guys in the best pvp gear then you are saying blizzard is shit because YOU in your LEVELING gear are letting down your raid team because your not fully epiced out when you do a mythic raid. Read that out loud. Yeah it sounds ridiculous doesn't it.

[Necromantic]

Vanilla had pvp where developers did not even consider pvp balance.

It was still great. At least in my opinion.

You were not carried by your gear as much as you were in TBC and afterwards. That's one reason why AV was so successful back then. It was large-scale and not a stupid instagib fest.

[Aleksej89]

So you are talking Ashran. Way to put a point mate. Some tanks, like DHs can have more HP, but but it's not going to be 100k hp. Tanks. Seeing 60k rogue, sure buddy. It's like saying "I can swim 40mph" and forget to mention that a jetboat is dragging you on a waterboard.

Uh no, nothing like that.
Just regular players in a battleground.
And yes it often is over 100k hp, just go into battlegrounds and see for yourself.
Either way not much point talking about this, i see it every day in BGs... dont really care do you believe or not.

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You are mistaken. Starter PvP gear is 200ish. Wearing 158 is just trash tier "I dinged 6 minutes ago" gear. When you are comparing yourself to the guys in the best pvp gear then you are saying blizzard is shit because YOU in your LEVELING gear are letting down your raid team because your not fully epiced out when you do a mythic raid. Read that out loud. Yeah it sounds ridiculous doesn't it.

Full pvp honor gear starts at 158 and that is not leveling gear.
Pvp gear that starts at 200 is Conquest and requires either grinding through TONS of unranked PVP or going into Ranked pvp.

[intenz]

The gearing worked perfectly fine in TBC and wotlk. There was enough differentiation in gear for it still feel like an MMO but everyone could eventually get the same gear it just took longer if you were bad. Only exceptions being slots like weapons and shoulders. I don't think other armor slots were rating gated until s4.

[Ange]

It was still great. At least in my opinion.

You were not carried by your gear as much as you were in TBC and afterwards. That's one reason why AV was so successful back then. It was large-scale and not a stupid instagib fest.

If there is nothing to do for casuals, they play what ever else is there. AV was fun, but not because PVP in vanilla was that great. It was bearable to participate for the cheap epic mount and a wepon you might not had gotten anywhere else.

For most it was just the cheap mount the whole motivation, because getting slaughtered for 18 hours by AOE spamming range DPS was not the most enjoyable gaming mode and the reputation turn-in griefing was allready enough to break many casual players.

For some reason people forget how elitist vanilla was and how extreme loot rules were used. A casual players gearprogression was done with AV weapons and honor farming for some blue pvp gear.

[kenn9530]

You're not wrong there. And that was the problem.

Vanilla had PVP right where it should be. People in blues/greens killing people in purples just because they were good at PVP.

In vanilla where a rogue with a grey weapon can perma stun you and kill you and you stand no chance, or fully geared chars that can 2 shot any player they want, you have no idea on where PvP should be and in vanilla it was not skill, it was just time investments.

PvP should have its own stats so no matter what team you fight your all fighting on the same playing field, gear should have no impact on PvP. In terms of gear no matter if your R1 or just getting into PvP no player should have a gear advantage, it just creates unbalanced gameplay in PvP.

[Mexh]

Do not queue arena until you reach 220+ I level or you will have a really bad time.

[Raugnaut]

Saw a rogue yesterday who had a bit over 80,000 health.

Outside of Ashran, which gives a 100% health buff to all melee specs while on the Ashran road, it's impossible for even Tanks to hit 80k health outside of CDs.

But yea, starting honor gear's ilvl is far too low, and costs way too much honor to get up to par. At this point it's far easier and better to instead just buy the PvP trinkets you need and use PvE to gear up to the point that you don't just get insta-gibbed.