Valor points capped at 5k

[Vasilisa]

Once again, the system is only rubbish because you can't upgrade shit to 226.

Remove "only", place it "also" and we'll both fully agree This system should just have weekly cap which would be way lower the current one (like 1000 or 1500) and valor earned from M+ should scale with difficulty.

[Ange]

Guess we have an answer: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...905/892616/149

No surprises here, cap is seasonal, which (in my opinion) makes this system rubbish unless you are upgrading bis items (mind that I'm not saying that farming 5k valor each week would be a good idea). Can't wait for the next season when you'll have to wait ~4 weeks in order to upgrade your 1st item.

This VALOR implementation is the worst of any other time gated gearing system we had.

Lets look at someone with a MAIN + KSM and see how long it takes to gear a new char with this system.

* lets say you get into +2 dungeons with friends, to get the 5000+750/weekly valor points together and you get 1 187 (+2) gear for each itemslot on the way
=> 60750 VALOR POINTS NEEDED FOR UPGRADES

That would need 76+ WEEKS of valor capping just to get your gear to ilvl 220. And 14-15 keys in PUGs starting to require allready 218-220 to make the weekly keys with every affix in time. After 76 weeks of valor farming your new char would make the requirements for a weekly key (minus R.IO char rating)

The VALOR system is clearly not intended for gearing new chars and with the KSM gating clearly not meant for casual players.

So the whole system is just here to give fully geared 220-226+ players the OPTION to switch 1-2 pieces with BiS gear and even that might require 8-12 weeks.

[ellieg]

This VALOR implementation is the worst of any other time gated gearing system we had.

Lets look at someone with a MAIN + KSM and see how long it takes to gear a new char with this system.

* lets say you get into +2 dungeons with friends, to get the 5000+750/weekly valor points together and you get 1 187 (+2) gear for each itemslot on the way
=> 60750 VALOR POINTS NEEDED FOR UPGRADES

That would need 76+ WEEKS of valor capping just to get your gear to ilvl 220. And 14-15 keys in PUGs starting to require allready 218-220 to make the weekly keys with every affix in time. After 76 weeks of valor farming your new char would make the requirements for a weekly key (minus R.IO char rating)

The VALOR system is clearly not intended for gearing new chars and with the KSM gating clearly not meant for casual players.

So the whole system is just here to give fully geared 220-226+ players the OPTION to switch 1-2 pieces with BiS gear and even that might require 8-12 weeks.

Its not intended to fully gear a char to 220 by itself. It works together with the GV. Assuming you are getting at least a +10 done within the first month of the season, this system makes it so you can get to at least 220 ilvl. If you are filling out 2-3 slots in the GV, you should be getting a 220-226 slot almost every week. Valor will let you target farm for the slots that you've been unlucky with.

[Frozenbro]

So the whole system is just here to give fully geared 220-226+ players the OPTION to switch 1-2 pieces with BiS gear and even that might require 8-12 weeks.

The system does have issues, no one can deny that and those need to be polished, but its your issue if you expect valor to be the savior of non geared alts to go from trash 180 to 220 in a few weeks, cause no system is gonna do this, so people need to judge the system with a bit of perspective, i mean, just read your own post xd

[Ange]

Its not intended to fully gear a char to 220 by itself. It works together with the GV.

The valor system is not a kickstarter for a higher GV. Its the opposite, if you use the seasonal and hard time-gates points for low-ilvl pieces, you allready lost in the gearprogression and there is no way to catch-up till october (next content patch), since it would require 1,5+ years to catch-up.

[Vasilisa]

My main issue with it is that it's waste to spend valor on non-bis items. As I've stated already I'd prefer if there was weekly cap or if you could exchange e.x. weak stat 220 (upgraded) neck and bis 200+ neck for bis 220 neck. I'd still prefer weekly cap though. For me current system is galaxy distance away from being useful, I'd probably stick to doing my 1-4 M+ each week and not bother with valors.

[Ange]

I'd probably stick to doing my 1-4 M+ each week and not bother with valors.

With the low drops in dungeons, you might be fully 226 GV geared before you see upgrade-worthy 210 ilvl drops in 15+ dungeons.

[Thunderball]

I dont get the complaining. You can upgrade items you couldnt upgrade before, that's the only change. What are you complaining about exactly?

[Kumorii]

It's kind of interesting how after we get currency people come up with the "what if we waste currency?" argument. That's sort of the nature of currencies... You can waste it by buying wrong pieces. Don't ask for a system if you don't like how the system works. It's true ever since badges were first introduced.

[ellieg]

The valor system is not a kickstarter for a higher GV. Its the opposite, if you use the seasonal and hard time-gates points for low-ilvl pieces, you allready lost in the gearprogression and there is no way to catch-up till october (next content patch), since it would require 1,5+ years to catch-up.

I've gotten a useful 220+ ilvl gear from the vault about 90% of the time since ~4th week of the season. So prob about 9 upgrades. Im at 218 ilvl, dont raid, pvpd to 1400 so lowest slots are 207. Id guess about 10 more weeks in the season. With Valor, i can bring up 2-3 of these slots from 207 to 220. Nothing crazy but thats a significant upgrade, almost 3ilvl total.

[Lathspell]

It's kind of interesting how after we get currency people come up with the "what if we waste currency?" argument. That's sort of the nature of currencies... You can waste it by buying wrong pieces. Don't ask for a system if you don't like how the system works. It's true ever since badges were first introduced.

The problem is you should never upgrade anything under 210, because it's a huge waste of currency. So people who don't do 15's yet have to save all their valor for when they do. Terrible system.

[Kumorii]

The problem is you should never upgrade anything under 210, because it's a huge waste of currency. So people who don't do 15's yet have to save all their valor for when they do. Terrible system.

That's how currencies work... Upgrading a longer path makes it costs more. Every game I can think of have higher costs if you have to upgrade an item more than another.
To me you are just stating the obvious fundamentals on how currencies work.

[Vasilisa]

It's kind of interesting how after we get currency people come up with the "what if we waste currency?" argument. That's sort of the nature of currencies... You can waste it by buying wrong pieces. Don't ask for a system if you don't like how the system works. It's true ever since badges were first introduced.

It's been long time ago when the badges were introduced so correct me please if my memory is clouded. In TBC you could refarm badges if you wanted (not saying it was quick and easy but it was possible), also you could try contacting a GM to refund and item (there was no guarantee for positive response though). Here if you upgrade an item it's done, no rollback or refarm option. Right now you have to be lucky with drops and upgrade the "correct" items which in many cases lead to not spending valor at all (like @Ange pointed out I'll probably be fully decked 220/226 before I get items worth of spending valor on).

[schwarzkopf]

You have a way to upgrade gear you didn't 1 week ago.... and STILL complaining?

Well - my main could have as much valour as he wanted, but there is nothing to spend it on.

For someone running 35+ M+ runs a week to cap on valour... my suggestion is to slow down

[Lathspell]

That's how currencies work... Upgrading a longer path makes it costs more. Every game I can think of have higher costs if you have to upgrade an item more than another.
To me you are just stating the obvious fundamentals on how currencies work.

Upgrading from 187 to 190 should not cost the same amount of valor as from 216 to 220. It is absurd.

[Kumorii]

It's been long time ago when the badges were introduced so correct my please if my memory is clouded. In TBC you could refarm badges if you wanted (not saying it was quick and easy but it was possible), also you could try contacting a GM to refund and item (there was no guarantee for positive response though). Here if you upgrade an item it's done, no rollback or refarm option. Right now you have to be lucky with drops and upgrade the "correct" items which in many cases lead to not spending valor at all (like @Ange pointed out I'll probably be fully decked 220/226 before I get items worth of spending valor on).

Yes, and people still brought up the argument that if you spend badges on the wrong item you wasted tons of time that you previously farmed for naught. That time is still gone and wasted... As is the nature of currency systems that's mixed with RNG loot. Anything that you can ever spend on anything can be dropped the next day if you are luck/unlucky. That people are "surprised" by this is what is interesting to me...

- - - Updated - - -

Upgrading from 187 to 190 should not cost the same amount of valor as from 216 to 220. It is absurd.

Cool I can agree with that, it's however different from the original quote where you just complained upgrading lower ilvl items is a waste of currency than upgrading from higher ilvl...which is just an obvious statement.

[Vasilisa]

Yes, and people still brought up the argument that if you spend badges on the wrong item you wasted tons of time that you previously farmed for naught. That time is still gone and wasted... As is the nature of currency systems that's mixed with RNG loot. Anything that you can ever spend on anything can be dropped the next day if you are luck/unlucky. That people are "surprised" by this is what is interesting to me...

Time is always "wasted" (*cough* 281 tries to get Ji'kun mount *cough*) but I don't mind it if it's time only. Non-refarmable currency is another thing. That's why I say it again: change to hardcap to weekly 1000. This way I could keep on spending valor and the points wouldn't be wasted. Yet I believe it's too late for that as there certainly are people who have already farmed and spent 5000 valors.

[Kumorii]

Time is always "wasted" (*cough* 281 tries to get Ji'kun mount *cough*) but I don't mind it if it's time only. Non-refarmable currency is another thing. That's why I say it again: change to hardcap to weekly 1000. This way I could keep on spending valor and the points wouldn't be wasted. Yet I believe it's too late for that as there certainly are people who have already farmed and spent 5000 valors.

Sure, everyone is different when it comes to what they prefer. Nature of currencies is however that it can be wasted. Be it time to get the currency or the currency itself. Either way, if you ask for a currency system be prepared that it can be wasted. Hell, even if you don't ask for the system, I think you should know that it can be wasted. And you being fine with wasting time doesn't change the fact that the time spent (getting currency) is still wasted if you get the RNG drop afterwards. You are just, as you said, ok with it.

[Ange]

Yet I believe it's too late for that as there certainly are people who have already farmed and spent 5000 valors.

The "SPAM +2 keys for 135 VALOR" till_its_fixed_train is long gone. Of course people farmed 5000/5000 valor, why wouldn't you run sub 12 min dungeons with R.IO 1500-2000 players in the first patch week?

Blizzard just copy&pasted the PVP HONOR upgrade system and "forgot" that a 750 weekly cap is not the same as endless easy to grind honor, the rating/KSM requirement is the same, but its timegated not just into months, but years for a full gear set.

[Vasilisa]

Sure, everyone is different when it comes to what they prefer. Nature of currencies is however that it can be wasted. Be it time to get the currency or the currency itself. Either way, if you ask for a currency system be prepared that it can be wasted. Hell, even if you don't ask for the system, I think you should know that it can be wasted. And you being fine with wasting time doesn't change the fact that the time spent (getting currency) is still wasted if you get the RNG drop afterwards. You are just, as you said, ok with it.

That's why the only logical (for me) reason to spend valor atm is using them only on your bis items. You don't risk that you'd have rng trolling you. That's why I'd want weekly cap instead of seasonal. If you cap it and don't spend, points would be wasted so you'd spend them on non-bis items as well and you could farm new valors next week. I'm not alpha & omega of game design but I know that balancing thing while having certain gearing strategy for players is not easy for developers. Yet I believe that we can agree that this system seems rushed and not thought through.