Making flying better

[HateTrain]

So here is the thing, if we assume that flying is removed from current content because it is problematic, how would you assume that flying can be added to current conteont in the future without some cahgnes to how flying works on the base level? Almost the entire game disagrees that current content can be mixed with flying. We have an almost endless parade of patch islands that show the developers do not want flying near relevant content.

There's the problem, someone put a ASSume into your "point".

[Sondrelk]

There's the problem, someone put a ASSume into your "point".

Do you have better assumptions on why Blizzard has consistently avoided flying in patch zones?

We have Isle of Quel'danas, Firelands, Isle of Giants/Thunder, Timeless isle. Argus, Korthia in the next pathc even.

Again, Blizzard has a very clear pattern of not wanting flying in current content. Call me boring but I think they do this because they are game designers and they realize that flying and current content really doesnt mix.
For more reasons you could always remember back in WoD, where the developers explicitly stated that flying and current content doesnt mix, which is why they slashed it from 6.0.

[HateTrain]

Do you have better assumptions on why Blizzard has consistently avoided flying in patch zones?

We have Isle of Quel'danas, Firelands, Isle of Giants/Thunder, Timeless isle. Argus, Korthia in the next pathc even.

Again, Blizzard has a very clear pattern of not wanting flying in current content. Call me boring but I think they do this because they are game designers and they realize that flying and current content really doesnt mix.
For more reasons you could always remember back in WoD, where the developers explicitly stated that flying and current content doesnt mix, which is why they slashed it from 6.0.

Yes, as cynical as it sounds, to draw out subscriptions from the fence sitters/Casualistas. WoD was the lesson that taught them that they could draw out flying and get the engagement you're on about, and then after a patch or so, get the engagement that comes after flying is introduced. I can admire wanting to make things more interesting as you point out but it's as likely to happen as....like removing playable Forsaken and forcing all players that were Forsaken to "Resurrect" human or delete the character.

[chaoticcrono]

You say they didnt need to nuke flying to make better open world content, but I imagine the developers nuking flying and then making better open world content is proof to the contrary.

Also, evne with that they clearly seemed to take every opportunity to remove flying whenever new content showed up, as evidenced in TBC with Isle of Quel'danas. Even the expansion that introduced flying had the developers realize that it migth be better to not have it for the final questing zone.


So here is the thing, if we assume that flying is removed from current content because it is problematic, how would you assume that flying can be added to current conteont in the future without some cahgnes to how flying works on the base level? Almost the entire game disagrees that current content can be mixed with flying. We have an almost endless parade of patch islands that show the developers do not want flying near relevant content.

the open world content is still ass and has been for a while now... its just the same old shit with a new coat of paint...

the developers having a hate boner for flying doesnt mean flying is the problem... imo the problem is the devs.

[Yseraboy]

Blizzard has made its mind about flying 10 years ago. It wont change. Well maybe after WoW is officially on its last legs it could, but still doubt it.

Man, I had to go look: TBC was released in 2007, so its over 13-years since we could fly at (then max) level 70.

1. Druids getting flight form
2. All the flying mounts we are able to buy with in-game currency.
3. Flying mounts in the cash shop

As much as some players - and some developers - would like to put the genie back in the bottle, I don't see it happening.

The devs have found a workable compromise = no flying until you complete the current content, and even then there are some areas they want to keep painful i.e. The Maw.

We've been arguing about this since Wrath (2008) was released, and (most) everyone who had paid for flight training -and- flying mounts was upset that they had to "buy flying again" when Wrath introduced paying for "Cold Weather" flying, and again - only after reaching max level. (Bonus points for having to buy the tome for each alt)

People wanting to gimp flying are going to have as much luck with their arguments as people wanting to get rid of LFR.

The devs who want to nix/ban flying have had to settle for the current (decade old) compromise, so I don't think anyone in these forums is going to get any changes pushed through.

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Wrong.

You being able to fly has huge impact on no flyers. They will be forced to use their flying mounts because they will not gimp themselves.
You being not able to fly has a huge positive impact on no-flyers as they will be able to ride on the ground without feeling they are being gimped.

If flying is just for lazy people, how do non-flyers "gimp" themselves by not flying?

The only obvious example I can think of is access to ore/herb nodes. No argument for me on that score.

What else?

I've always played on a PvE server, and never use War Mode. Is it World PvP issues?

[MrFawlty]

If flying is just for lazy people, how do non-flyers "gimp" themselves by not flying?

The only obvious example I can think of is access to ore/herb nodes. No argument for me on that score.

What else?

I've always played on a PvE server, and never use War Mode. Is it World PvP issues?

Erm all the benefits that flyers go on about.....constantly.

[rrayy]

If flying is just for lazy people, how do non-flyers "gimp" themselves by not flying?

The only obvious example I can think of is access to ore/herb nodes. No argument for me on that score.

What else?

I've always played on a PvE server, and never use War Mode. Is it World PvP issues?

Getting everywhere faster. No-flyers aren't going to use their ground mounts if there is a faster way to get where they are going.

[Amariw]

I wouldnt mind original poster's idea much, but personally it wouldnt make the game funner for me either.

What would is a world design similar to tbc, wotlk and cata expansions.

In there, flying was designed as part of the outdoor experience, and it enhanced leveling (wotlk-cata) or endgame (tbc). You had cool zones that only made sense if you could fly to them, hidden titan facilities inside Storm Peak mountains that you only found while flying, and flying felt cool.

If they can't do that, I'd rather they make no flying and focus on effective ground travel like grappling hooks, porters, and temporary super fast mounts like the one in Maldraxxus covenant flightpath.

But i really wish they would just design the world around flight.

[Yarathir]

No-flyer options if flying is available: You can opt to not fly. You will be slower, but it is quite literally an option, even if you lack the self-control to use it.

Pro-flyer options if flying is not available:

[CalamityHeart]

Getting everywhere faster. No-flyers aren't going to use their ground mounts if there is a faster way to get where they are going.

But having a slower and harder time getting to where they're going is exactly the experience that no-flyers are advocating for. If the crux of the issue for no-flyers is really that being able to fly trivializes travel, then there should be no issue with them just not using flying mounts and immersing themselves in the experience that they want. It's not gimping themselves, it's playing the game that they say they want to play. But no-flyers who make this argument won't eat their own shit unless everyone else is eating it, too. Having the option to play how you want won't matter as long as there's someone else who has a different option to play how they want. It's just a roundabout way of suggesting punishments for people who fly for no reason. And the only real and necessary counterargument to this issue is "Go fuck yourself."

So what else? What's the actual, not piece-of-shit reason that no-flyers are so adamant about no one flying?

[chaoticcrono]

No-flyer options if flying is available: You can opt to not fly. You will be slower, but it is quite literally an option, even if you lack the self-control to use it.

Pro-flyer options if flying is not available:

exactly....

why they cant see this is beyond me.

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But having a slower and harder time getting to where they're going is exactly the experience that no-flyers are advocating for. If the crux of the issue for no-flyers is really that being able to fly trivializes travel, then there should be no issue with them just not using flying mounts and immersing themselves in the experience that they want. It's not gimping themselves, it's playing the game that they say they want to play. But no-flyers who make this argument won't eat their own shit unless everyone else is eating it, too. Having the option to play how you want won't matter as long as there's someone else who has a different option to play how they want. It's just a roundabout way of suggesting punishments for people who fly for no reason. And the only real and necessary counterargument to this issue is "Go fuck yourself."

So what else? What's the actual, not piece-of-shit reason that no-flyers are so adamant about no one flying?

its not about playing the way they want, its about fucking over those who dont have the same preference.

[rrayy]

But having a slower and harder time getting to where they're going is exactly the experience that no-flyers are advocating for. If the crux of the issue for no-flyers is really that being able to fly trivializes travel, then there should be no issue with them just not using flying mounts and immersing themselves in the experience that they want. It's not gimping themselves, it's playing the game that they say they want to play. But no-flyers who make this argument won't eat their own shit unless everyone else is eating it, too. Having the option to play how you want won't matter as long as there's someone else who has a different option to play how they want. It's just a roundabout way of suggesting punishments for people who fly for no reason. And the only real and necessary counterargument to this issue is "Go fuck yourself."

So what else? What's the actual, not piece-of-shit reason that no-flyers are so adamant about no one flying?

No they are not. THere isn't one no flyer that states they want a slower and harder time. What they are advocating for is the feel of a full world and not people just dropping down to do their WQ and then fly right off.

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No-flyer options if flying is available: You can opt to not fly. You will be slower, but it is quite literally an option, even if you lack the self-control to use it.

Pro-flyer options if flying is not available:

Which again misses the point of why they want no flying.

[Yarathir]

Which again misses the point of why they want no flying.

Doesn't really matter.

[Ringthane]

Man, I had to go look: TBC was released in 2007, so its over 13-years since we could fly at (then max) level 70.

1. Druids getting flight form
2. All the flying mounts we are able to buy with in-game currency.
3. Flying mounts in the cash shop

As much as some players - and some developers - would like to put the genie back in the bottle, I don't see it happening.

The devs have found a workable compromise = no flying until you complete the current content, and even then there are some areas they want to keep painful i.e. The Maw.

We've been arguing about this since Wrath (2008) was released, and (most) everyone who had paid for flight training -and- flying mounts was upset that they had to "buy flying again" when Wrath introduced paying for "Cold Weather" flying, and again - only after reaching max level. (Bonus points for having to buy the tome for each alt)

People wanting to gimp flying are going to have as much luck with their arguments as people wanting to get rid of LFR.

The devs who want to nix/ban flying have had to settle for the current (decade old) compromise, so I don't think anyone in these forums is going to get any changes pushed through.

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If flying is just for lazy people, how do non-flyers "gimp" themselves by not flying?

The only obvious example I can think of is access to ore/herb nodes. No argument for me on that score.

What else?

I've always played on a PvE server, and never use War Mode. Is it World PvP issues?

Boy, I have been playing a long time.

Because I remember that druids got flight form at level 68, and the outcry that ensued.

[kenn9530]

snip

There is barely ppl in the zones anyway so what does it matter if someone just flies to what they need and do it as fast as possible or not, having other players around is irrelevant to WoW content with WQs, not having flying actually means less players out in the world because there is no point in doing WQs most of the time.

The whole point in flying is to make tedious content go faster so it gives you more motivation to actually do it, there is no reason to limit flying at all.

[Tsamane]

Here is a solution
Mount up at a flight master and get a 50% speed buff till you demount. (ground or flying mount)

[rrayy]

There is barely ppl in the zones anyway so what does it matter if someone just flies to what they need and do it as fast as possible or not, having other players around is irrelevant to WoW content with WQs, not having flying actually means less players out in the world because there is no point in doing WQs most of the time.

The whole point in flying is to make tedious content go faster so it gives you more motivation to actually do it, there is no reason to limit flying at all.

I see a lot of people in each Shadowlands zone. Definitely a point to limiting flying.

[Kathranis]

I don't think there's anything wrong with restricting flying until the first patch. It trivializes world content.

However, gaining flying needs to open up access to previously inaccessible areas and quests. They need to design all the zones with areas that can't be reached until flying is unlocked, and then populate those areas in the first patch.

I think they should also make playing without flying less inconvenient Flightmaster's Whistle is a big one, and they should never have gotten rid of it.

I think it would also be cool if using flying mounts in non-flying areas allowed you to double jump and/or glide on them, just like you can when playing a DH. Maybe as an unlockable perk.

[korijenkins]

Because the current incarnation of flying is beyond broken a movement option.

It is by far the fast means of transportation, has no restrictions placed on where you can start using it, and completely bypasses ground content where the game actually exists.

The kind of flying we have in WoW is pretty much the same as what you might see in "games" like Garry's mod. Even sandbox games that place emphasis on pure catharsis like GTA or Just Cause has more inherent restriction to flying than WoW does.

I don't want the game ot languish because players essentially want the ability to teleport. But I equally don't want flying to be completely removed. What I want is for flying to be reined in so it actually has reasons not to use it that enhance the game.

Design better content to work with flying then.

That's what they did in Storm Peaks and Icecrown and it worked. No excuse not to keep doing that today, but they don't.

[phaphot]

totally agree