Did Greymane cause Shadowlands?

[MrLachyG]

Not trying to argue against myself, but isn't that the same thing? I mean there is an anime drought because the Arbiter was attacked and ever since, every soul goes into the Maw. Or am I misunderstanding something?

the attack on the Arbiter caused the souls to go into the Maw and thereby caused the anima drought for the Shadowlands in its entirety. in my original comment I was referring to the drought in Revendreth, which Denathrius caused by simply not giving anyone outside of his castle anima. Still don't know if Denathrius attacked the Arbiter; he might have but we don't know

[baskev]

Shower thought,
did Genn force Sylvanas to make a deal with the Jailer after he sabotaged her attempt to gain immortality from Eyir by subjugating her and her Val'kyr?
If the last time she had seen the Jailer and seen his offering, was when she died, that means she tried to avoid this path no? But eventually she had to take it because there was nothing left.

Nope,

I think it has been confirmed but do not qoute me on it. That it happend ( her joining the jailor) when she base dived from icc.

But, it might have changed the original plan she and the jailor had. So maybe yes, maybe no. We might never know the real plan. So hard to be sure.

[Raugnaut]

again, not arguing that he caused the anima drought. that is confirmed fact. however there is nothing to confirm that he is the one who attacked the Arbiter (and this includes the Wowpedia page which has nothing about the attack)

Without having put the Arbiter out of commision, there would be NO anima drought, because the souls would have been distributed throughout the Shadowlands. The only way to cause the drought IS to attack the Arbiter - Thus, Denathrius was the one to attack the Arbiter and thus cause the Anima Drought.

[Wangming]

the attack on the Arbiter caused the souls to go into the Maw and thereby caused the anima drought for the Shadowlands in its entirety. in my original comment I was referring to the drought in Revendreth, which Denathrius caused by simply not giving anyone outside of his castle anima. Still don't know if Denathrius attacked the Arbiter; he might have but we don't know

Ah, okay. That was kinda my guess, but it's good to be sure. Thanks for the clarification.

[MrLachyG]

Without having put the Arbiter out of commision, there would be NO anima drought, because the souls would have been distributed throughout the Shadowlands. The only way to cause the drought IS to attack the Arbiter - Thus, Denathrius was the one to attack the Arbiter and thus cause the Anima Drought.

but we don't know that for certain! probable, sure, but we are not certain of the fact that it was specifically Denathrius who sent that spell or whatever it was towards the Arbiter

[Gaidax]

Weekly "Sylvanas did nothing wrong" thread.

KEKW.

[Raugnaut]

but we don't know that for certain! probable, sure, but we are not certain of the fact that it was specifically Denathrius who sent that spell or whatever it was towards the Arbiter

It's been repeatedly confirmed that Denathrius is the one responsible for the anima drought of the entirety of the Shadowlands! And you don't get a drought throughout ALL of the Shadowlands without knocking out the Arbiter! And, again, RED anima attack that came from the direction of Ravendreth was what knocked out the Arbiter!

What did you want, a cinematic of Denathrius coming up and slamming the Arbiter in the face or something?

[Mic_128]

TBH the souls that the Jailer acquired from Azeroth was likely little more then a single droplet in an ocean - Keep in mind that ever since Denathrius sapped the Arbiter, ALL souls have been going to the Maw - And as there are "countless worlds", this means that the Jailer is likely getting hundreds of millions of souls each day.

Supposedly Azeroth is one of the few worlds left with life after the Burning Cursade.

[MrLachyG]

It's been repeatedly confirmed that Denathrius is the one responsible for the anima drought of the entirety of the Shadowlands! And you don't get a drought throughout ALL of the Shadowlands without knocking out the Arbiter! And, again, RED anima attack that came from the direction of Ravendreth was what knocked out the Arbiter!

What did you want, a cinematic of Denathrius coming up and slamming the Arbiter in the face or something?

no, a video of him launching the attack will suffice. also, what do you mean it came from the direction of Revendreth??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsNz...hannel=LeystTV the attack CLEARLY came from above. Did Denathrius know what was going to happen? oh almost certainly; but that doesn't mean he was definitely the one who sent that spell towards the Arbiter. When it comes down to it yeah it probably was him - but we don't know that for certain!

[Lochton]

Yes, it's been confirmed in-game that it was the Sire that did it - It was first implied during the initial questline (Red colored anima attack from Ravendreth's direction) and then later confirmed while questing in Ravendreth, and finally confirmed again as part of the Venthyr campaign - Sire Denathrius caused the Anima drought.

Huh, must have missed the part saying it was him. I know he caused the drought though.

[LordVargK]

Without having put the Arbiter out of commision, there would be NO anima drought, because the souls would have been distributed throughout the Shadowlands. The only way to cause the drought IS to attack the Arbiter - Thus, Denathrius was the one to attack the Arbiter and thus cause the Anima Drought.

Not really true though. The venthyr extract anima from prisoners/sinners. So they have more than enough anima, Denathrius just kept it for himself and the jailer. That's evident at the end of the revendreth campaign where he releases all his anima into the maw (as you can still see now), there clearly was no drought in Revendreth. So at least the venthyr are mostly independent from the arbiter (for much, much longer than the other covenants).

Maldraxxus also doesn't seem to have any problems with anima. In Bastion you notice it's a little sparse. And only Ardenwald has really a drought and huge problems maintaining their regular activities.

[Ryken]

Beyond the discussion at hand, one person preventing another from doing something never means they are the cause of something happening by the other's choices. Even if Greymane foiled Sylvannas' plans, what she did afterwards isn't on Genn's shoulders. If I get fired from my job and have no money to pay my bills, my old employer isn't at fault if I choose to rob a bank to get the money instead.

[deviantcultist]

This is exactly what I'm worried the community will keep twisting if they go for Sylvanas redemption.

"It was not her fault, but those who misunderstood her and wanted vengeance are to blame."

Yeah right, that's not how it works.

[Mehrunes]

no, Sylvanas has been working with the Jailer since the end of Wrath. Jailer needed souls to go to the Maw to power himself up; used his ally Mueh'zala to convince a dying Vol'jin to make Sylvanas Warchief so that she would start conflicts which would give him thousands of souls

Actually, what Blizzard has said is that her relationship with the Jailer stretches back to Edge of Night. Their relationship could have changed over time. Just look at how Sylvanas' motivations evolved over the years. Hell, even when she was still drafting the campaign against the Alliance her goal was to conquer Stormwind to get more Forsaken.

[MrLachyG]

Actually, what Blizzard has said is that her relationship with the Jailer stretches back to Edge of Night. Their relationship could have changed over time. Just look at how Sylvanas' motivations evolved over the years. Hell, even when she was still drafting the campaign against the Alliance her goal was to conquer Stormwind to get more Forsaken.

I mean we know when the Machine of Death broke, sometime after the first raid of Legion. so honestly I think she was just biding her time, Jailer probably told her that when she was made Warchief that their plan was ready and that is when she really started changing. She barely did anything in the fight against the Legion, left that to others while she set things up in the background for her master's plan

[Electric Lighter]

It is honestly best you don't try to overly invest in wow's story. Every plot line seems to break down into either a story about corruption, betrayal, and/or ancient evil. WoW lore is extremely vast but about as deep as a puddle.

[Wangming]

This is exactly what I'm worried the community will keep twisting if they go for Sylvanas redemption.

"It was not her fault, but those who misunderstood her and wanted vengeance are to blame."

Yeah right, that's not how it works.

They will keep saying it untill a new Chronicle comes and confirms Sylvanas was actually evil. Of course Pyromancer will still assume the Chronicle is lying on purpose, because that's how he rolls.

[Thage]

Shower thought,
did Genn force Sylvanas to make a deal with the Jailer after he sabotaged her attempt to gain immortality from Eyir by subjugating her and her Val'kyr?
If the last time she had seen the Jailer and seen his offering, was when she died, that means she tried to avoid this path no? But eventually she had to take it because there was nothing left.

She's been working with him since she died. Blizzard retconned her internal monologue in all sources after Edge of Night and she's been covertly working with him since. So no, she never tried to avoid this path, she's only wavering now because Blizzard realized they haven't recycled the "bad guy feels bad about suffering consequences for their actions, so they make a big show of how they feel bad about their actions having blowback that affects them, and they do one thing that can subjectively be interpreted as heroic, half the cast will discuss what a hero they are, and all the shitty things they did will be swept under the rug for the next 20 years" subplot for almost a year now, so they're laying down the groundwork for Sylvanas's big "Oh woe is me" moment followed by her "heroic" sacrifice, so Anduin, Genn, and Thrall can tell everyone about the undead space angel who stopped the Void and saved the Terrans, Protoss, and Zerg Azeroth.

[Wangming]

Actually, what Blizzard has said is that her relationship with the Jailer stretches back to Edge of Night. Their relationship could have changed over time. Just look at how Sylvanas' motivations evolved over the years. Hell, even when she was still drafting the campaign against the Alliance her goal was to conquer Stormwind to get more Forsaken.

Odd way to spell dumb retcon, but okay.

[Cosmic Janitor]

again, not arguing that he caused the anima drought. that is confirmed fact. however there is nothing to confirm that he is the one who attacked the Arbiter (and this includes the Wowpedia page which has nothing about the attack)

I think it is conjecture on his part, though you could technically argue that it was Denathrius if you strictly follow the wording, afterall the draught is caused by no longer sending souls properly to the respective realms, which in turn was caused by shutting down the arbiter with a red ernergy attack. It makes sense, even thought it was never stated that denathrius directly attacked the arbiter or how he fucking managed to do that.

- - - Updated - - -

They will keep saying it untill a new Chronicle comes and confirms Sylvanas was actually evil. Of course Pyromancer will still assume the Chronicle is lying on purpose, because that's how he rolls.

I mean Spergomancer aside, Blizzard has practically said that you can't trust the chronicles anyway, because they feel no obligation to stick to them and their already murky, newly established canon that the current writing team themselves hammered out. They essentially already gave themselves a blank cheque to retcon whatever they do and the chronicals are nothing but artbooks with space wasted on meaningless text.