Gearing - Whats wrong with Blizzard ???

[kamuimac]

What is wrong with this ppl at Blizz HQ ? i dont get it how they thought progress should happen in this xpac.

i do not talk about low amount of drops. i am fine by that. but i am a resto heal with 202/203 gear. i can heal m+ 6 and +7 rather easy. 8 is also no problem but i have to be on action always, when running with other ppl, even between 203 and 210/213. 9 will become slowly a problem (depends on dungeon) when not outgearing it with 210 tank and 1-2 210+ dps. +10 is no chance for a „normal“ item level ~200 grp.

well. that said, i now look at how to improve my gear. i did the raid 4 times full clear on normal mode (some bosses 6 or 7 times). did PvP and have 200 ilvl conquest trinket (its rather good/ok for restos). now here comes my question:

how the hell i shall improve from here onwards ?

i checked that stuff and realized:

- to update pvp conquest 200 gear you need 1400 rating - no chance for me
- to get into HC pug raid with 202/203 ilvl ? no chance
- m+ gives exactly 200 for +7 till +10 (WTF ???)
- VP -> KSM10 needed to upgrade, and noone sane wanna spend capped VP for lowlvl items (most idiotic system ever)

so, how the hell this should work, when not waiting weeks for the higher ilvl item once per week by greater vault or joining a guild???

the heck, you can not improve your character at this point. WTF ???

just take a imaginary character, put 200 item level on every slot (and a few 207 from last bosses) and then tell me how and where exactly this char should go and get higher drops there, than the 200 items he already has ??? i dont get it.

what does Blizz think how this should work ???

you can calc the ilvl here: 235 legendary + 2 x 207 + 11 x 200 = 2849/14=203 item level
and how do i get items higher 200 now?

does this progressing/gearing/rewardsystem makes any sense at all ? what i am missing here? plz enlighten me.

you are supposed to be subbed for 16 + weeks and gear up via GV lottery after spaming 10 x m+ a week

have fun

[ellieg]

you are supposed to be subbed for 16 + weeks and gear up via GV lottery after spaming 10 x m+ a week

have fun

Or do rated pvp

Or raid

The staple endgame system we've had for years.

[LedZeppelin]

I think its a good thing that top players get BiS gear at a rate of about 1 piece a week. The very fastest being mythic raiders doing close to a full clear. At 10 m+14+ a week, thays 3 options of 226. With average luck, yhats 1 upgrade almost every week,woth valor filling in the gaps with 220

What Im saying is that M+ is not equal to raiding. Raiding is superior. Mythic raiding you can get multiple 226. M+ you can only get on tuesday. Killing a boss in mythic helps you kill other bosses so there is a slight snowball effect. M+ is supplemental to mythic raiding or raiding in general. Not equal.

[Luxeley]

Disagree, the problem is the playerbase who keeps thinking they can do end-game content as SOLO players. Look at the OP argument, as a SOLO player your progression is limited (in terms of gear) because to advance further you need to be in a guild or on regular team (whether that's a raiding team, a M+ team, or a rated PvP team).

And since WoW is a MMORPG where the foundation is to be in a group, guild, or team do accomplish end-game content like raids, rated PvP or M+.

Yes we know how amazing it is that you could PuG your way up the chain and get AoTC but that's not the design intent.


Why do you think that the baseline response to "why can't I progress past X" is create your own group and then do X?

Alternatively, you could just wait until the content is no longer relevant and then players can solo the crap out of it. Throne of Thunder is easily Soloable at this point or good ol' Molten Core.

You obviously don't pvp. I'll give you the M+ argument with regard to my initial post. The OP is clearly a solo player and should be able to find an M+ group and/or guild as a healer no less. That I can easily 100% agree with. But as far as Pvp is concerned - NO F'king WAY. First of all, there are no pvp guilds out there and the opportunities in pugs for 3s or RBGs are nowhere near the same ballpark as the opts for M+ In Pvp if you're climbing the ladder you are constantly punching above your weight class. Given the ridiculous high burst environment, there is ZERO room for error. Matter of fact, you can everything right, not make a single mistake and if you're fighting against a player who is 10 or more i-lvls higher, you don't have a shot if the Xp/ skill are equal. You're not constantly punching above your weight class in M+ so you can find FAIR ground in M+, but that fair ground DOES NOT exist in pvp, unfortunately.

[ellieg]

What Im saying is that M+ is not equal to raiding. Raiding is superior. Mythic raiding you can get multiple 226. M+ you can only get on tuesday. Killing a boss in mythic helps you kill other bosses so there is a slight snowball effect. M+ is supplemental to mythic raiding or raiding in general. Not equal.

I think M+ is better than all raids except mythic. Uncapped 210, very closely equal to the 213 drops. Youll be getting 226 in your vaults, compared to the 213, and eventual 220 in heroic raids. The average m+15 er will be higher ilvl than the average heroic raider.

With mythic raids, you'll have to start killing at least 3 bosses to get 1 option in vault of 226. I know good guilds did this fast but most raiding guilds definitely don't. Then at 20% drop rate, you'll need to be killing 5 bosses for average rate of 1 piece a week. Ppl doing 3+ mythic bosses a week will get gear faster than m+, but imo, before that, m+ wins out

[Akibaboy]

ofc! but it seems not designed to go with 202 into HC raid or +10 dungeon ? i play wow since 15 years without interruption and this seems not intended when i look at actual stuff.

202 itemlevel and invite (even as healer) in HC pug ? no chance.
202 itemlevel and 4 other ppl with itemlevel 200-205 doing +10 ? have you ever tried this ???

so.... ????

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y, ofc! but is +10 designed to go there with 202 item level grps ???

and why in the hell should anyone, as another example, ever go 7, 8, or 9 when he did 6, when there drops NOTHING higher than 200 until +10 ??? this means your progression route in m+ is: ...6,10,... does this makes any sense ???

Blizzard is not the issue here, the social norms of the community are the core of what you're experiencing... and even that there's not anything particularly wrong.

Since you want to just PUG everything, then you need to be able to display up front some kind of experience, stat, or other qualification for people to want to trust you with their time and energy. That's a tough grind to be in because you need to be maximizing every gear source possible, including maybe joining some of those YOLO PvP groups to unlock 207-213 upgrade ability (I did and I hate PvP).

When people say the best way to get out of this cycle is to join a Guild or Community, they're not lying. Because I play with people I know well and have experience with, I know that when one of our guildies jumps on a 197ilvl disc priest, that he'll be able to hold his own to some degree. We might not time our highest keys with him, but we all communicate what our expectations are ahead of time, share what keys we don't care about timing, etc. When we raid Heroic we have a group of about 10-12 that are good enough to carry the 8-10 extra tag alongs that need gear still... and we're all fine with that because that's the purpose of our community. During progression our core team is ready to help get other members up to speed, go on extra runs we don't necessarily need, pass loot on to those who need it, and share resources like pots and food.

[Recovery]

ofc! but it seems not designed to go with 202 into HC raid or +10 dungeon ? i play wow since 15 years without interruption and this seems not intended when i look at actual stuff.

202 itemlevel and invite (even as healer) in HC pug ? no chance.
202 itemlevel and 4 other ppl with itemlevel 200-205 doing +10 ? have you ever tried this ???

so.... ????

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y, ofc! but is +10 designed to go there with 202 item level grps ???

and why in the hell should anyone, as another example, ever go 7, 8, or 9 when he did 6, when there drops NOTHING higher than 200 until +10 ??? this means your progression route in m+ is: ...6,10,... does this makes any sense ???

Heroic groups not inviting you at 202 ilvl is a community thing. DO you think any of the players had above that ilvl when they were downing heroic at the beginning of the expansion? Join a guild. IF youre good enough, they will bring you in.


Also, if you cant get 1400 in 2s or RBGS, there is something wrong. Play the games and you will get there. i promise.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It is a wall that can be overcome with time by riding Great Vault or by skill since you can do higher keys to get 207 and 210s eventually. Now I will admit to a bit of a unnatural curve that happens around 10s. I think it happened because they didn't want it to make gear trading a thing in heroic for some world first race thing and beyond. So drop rewards suddenly go to shit quick and if you can't get like 1 10 done, like SD for example, then you cannot upgrade and yeah.. it is kind of dumb. If, and I stress if, that was the reason then it's really dumb (more or less screwed a lot of people for like 10-100 guilds that do that stuff). Probably if they didn't base upgrade levels on achievements and maybe an average of keys completed that are slightly below the key level (so it has a natural progression curve to completion) and then for any super challenge andies pushing IO. I think this makes it to where it still isn't a "everyone gets the archive" but also giving it a clear path beyond "git gudder".

[Tyrannica]

Go get 1800 in pvp and you can safely ignore most of the content and the toxic playerbase. The gearing system of shadowjoke is just another example of blizzard milking the p2p cow without finally admitting that it does. Most of the players be it in a guild or not do not see enjoyable gearing progress with how the mechanics are implemented unless they can pvp.

From my experience so far in the S1 players just bite the bullet and join the show because 1800 is far easier than running dungeons praying to RNG Gods and waiting for the weekly chest. My suggestion to anyone feeling they struggle with rio, or toxic people or what not, ignore the playerbase find someone you can tolerate, farm 2v2 and profit.

3vs3 is even easier....

and you get that seasional mountfaster, too. Its quite a unique model and more worth some trivial gear that will be upgraded in about 2 months.

He should just join a mountfarm run, they usually hit 1,8k. Especially if there is some sort of TSG or any other melee pug group.

Meanwhile i was starring at the screen for days to find my CR by doing RBGS as alliance, just because i wantet to try something new and get the 3 chest weekly cap quickly - in the end, arenas still are are superior and quicker to do and get all your stuff.

The OP must be a liar, there is no way he played wow for 15+ years and there is no way a cleared even a single mythic+8, as this allready should give a weekly chest of ilvl216.

Or maybe he is on an alt and does not like the gear progression with lowly alts, maybe then i could agree a bit. Could be a better system. Why even the need for KM for 220ilvl valor upgrades if valor is very limited anyways? This only would make sense in this late part of the seasion, if valor would be infinite?

From an alt perspective the gearing system is underwhelming, but from a main perspective isn't a problem at all, if skill and good organized groups don't give you good gear, time will due to how great vaults work.

[Jujudrood]

OP has hit his loot wall.
Play for fun, knowing upgrades will be few and far between, or unsub and wait for however long 9.1 takes.

Loot has always been a controversial issue, where it's too abundant, not abundant enough, too easy to get, too hard to get, the list goes on and on.
At the end of the day, everyone has their choice playstyle and content level, and when you max it, that's that.
You either step up and do harder content or you call it a day (patch) on your power gains.

Blizzard messed up in multiple areas, with Covenant gear upgrading too high too fast (for the WQers out there), to M+ runs not giving anything useful on a per-run basis (just hope the weekly chest picks something good out of the dozens of options from the loot tables of 8 dungeons, where all options can only be for a single spec), and PVP being the "best way to gear" with its neverending currency farm (honor) and the "pick what you want" gear options at the vendor.
They fixed Raid, but we were nearly 2 months into the "3 items for a 30 man raid? the fuck?" territory, so even that soured people.

Ultimately, though, OP's problem is his own.
If he doesn't want to join a guild or interact socially, in an MMO, his options are limited.
You can pug M+, but with a 200-203 ilvl, you won't be getting too many invites above +10, especially if you don't clear those and have a built up IO score.
You can also try to pug rated pvp, hoping to crawl up the ladder, but be prepared to run into premades who outear you, so it will be frustratingly rough going this late in the season.
The community is what it is, so it will be rough, but either sit and wait for more content and a new treadmill or up your game and find a heroic raid guild or keep on applying for + runs until you get an invite.

[Niwes]

Yes. Almost two chest with 191 ilvl avg group.

The fact that you think that ilvl is the reason your group cannot finish a dungeon is the first problem.
People did +15s with that ilvl.

Figuring out what is going wrong, and adding the better players to bnet is what will help you keep climbing.

yes, ofc. i totally believe this. but its the same argument as „join a guild“. i never met this xpac any pug m+ group that ever would be able with avg 191 doing 10+....

so its the same problem as with raiding: „if you wanna go 200+ join a guild for raiding or a fixed premade m+ grp.“ these are not in the slightest the relations the old xpacs had (BfA, Legiin, WoD...). i find this rather strange...

[Belloc]

Making your own group is not synonymous of timing the key, else everyone would have got KSM ages ago since everyone almost always run others’ groups.

If you're failing to time your key, then that means two possible things: You invited the wrong people or you don't have the skill. Both possibilities are exactly why groups have the stringent requirements that they do.

As an aside, I was primarily suggesting that OP make their own heroic raid group so that they can get drops off the easier bosses, thus increasing the likelihood of M+ groups inviting him.

[Niwes]

If you have been playing without interruption, then doing a key each week since they have been implemented would have given you about 14 weekly chests. Being generous, and saying you have been able to perform +8 for the past 5 weeks, that is 5 pieces of 216 gear that you would currently have. The best part is, those +8's wouldnt even need to be finished in time to get those upgrades. Also, as many have already said, You can 100% complete a +10 in your current gear.

As a resto sham, are you wind shearing on CD to help with interrupts? Are you cap toteming? Are you helping with damage? It sounds more like a player issue than a gear issue. Also, stop pugging if you can. Pugs are garbage 70% of the time. You are actually over geared to step in to Heroic CN at this time. You should probably try and do that too.

yeah, thats not my main and i started late. but your argumemt is what i already said above: you have to wait for greater vault items. i find it rather strange to say: „hey, your content you doing has no upgrades but hey, every week you get 1 another item. have fun.“ ???

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How you get gear?

It's a process - you have weekly vault, weekly world boss and even normal raid last 2 bosses drop 207 loot. There are 213/226 BoEs, 213 ones are dirt cheap and you have a welfare 235 legendary. All that without stepping into HC raid or doing anything more than +8 keys. Eventually you get all you need.

And then, of course you have valor. You holding to your capped valor like your dear life is part of your problem.

Use your valor, it resets next season, which is in 2 months or so. Upgrade your weapon and best pieces, instead of letting it rot there. What you got to lose there?


I, personally, think at this point they could have made WQs drop 210, because this patch has 2 months left or so and 210 is nothing to write home about anyway. But it's not like you truly don't have options, even if none of them are "instant".

Other than that, it's a community issue. Raid pugs requiring gear that is effectively better than what raid drops is nothing new and frankly same goes about your idea that you can't do +10 as ilvl 200. Not much Blizz can do with that one.

ok, let me summarize this:

instead of getting gear by doing content i shall:

- buy tokens for gold to buy BoEs
- hope for RNG on world boss (killed on main and alt with both together around 20 times, no drop)
- spend VP on low items to have no VP in 4 weeks for higher items (at which point maybe i have the same prob than now, without VP)
- legendary i said in my OP and already has 235

strange...

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How you get gear?

It's a process - you have weekly vault, weekly world boss and even normal raid last 2 bosses drop 207 loot. There are 213/226 BoEs, 213 ones are dirt cheap and you have a welfare 235 legendary. All that without stepping into HC raid or doing anything more than +8 keys. Eventually you get all you need.

And then, of course you have valor. You holding to your capped valor like your dear life is part of your problem.

Use your valor, it resets next season, which is in 2 months or so. Upgrade your weapon and best pieces, instead of letting it rot there. What you got to lose there?


I, personally, think at this point they could have made WQs drop 210, because this patch has 2 months left or so and 210 is nothing to write home about anyway. But it's not like you truly don't have options, even if none of them are "instant".

Other than that, it's a community issue. Raid pugs requiring gear that is effectively better than what raid drops is nothing new and frankly same goes about your idea that you can't do +10 as ilvl 200. Not much Blizz can do with that one.

your last part: yep, that was always the case, but that not seemed a problem, because you had other possibilities to reach that ilvl expectations. never had that problem in Legion or BfA.

[Nak88]

Blizzard add a fantastic vault system where you can pick an item from 5-6 different possibilites and people are still mad. Unbelievable.

[Soon-TM]

yeah, thats not my main and i started late. but your argumemt is what i already said above: you have to wait for greater vault items. i find it rather strange to say: „hey, your content you doing has no upgrades but hey, every week you get 1 another item. have fun.“ ???

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ok, let me summarize this:

instead of getting gear by doing content i shall:

- buy tokens for gold to buy BoEs
- hope for RNG on world boss (killed on main and alt with both together around 20 times, no drop)
- spend VP on low items to have no VP in 4 weeks for higher items (at which point maybe i have the same prob than now, without VP)
- legendary i said in my OP and already has 235

strange...

The best part is that WF/TF was quite controversial in Legion/BfA, because it awarded gear far above the content you were doing. But the SL iteration of the weekly chest is effectively a guaranteed crazy TF item /facepalm

[Accendor]

What is wrong with this ppl at Blizz HQ ? i dont get it how they thought progress should happen in this xpac.

i do not talk about low amount of drops. i am fine by that. but i am a resto heal with 202/203 gear. i can heal m+ 6 and +7 rather easy. 8 is also no problem but i have to be on action always, when running with other ppl, even between 203 and 210/213. 9 will become slowly a problem (depends on dungeon) when not outgearing it with 210 tank and 1-2 210+ dps. +10 is no chance for a „normal“ item level ~200 grp.

well. that said, i now look at how to improve my gear. i did the raid 4 times full clear on normal mode (some bosses 6 or 7 times). did PvP and have 200 ilvl conquest trinket (its rather good/ok for restos). now here comes my question:

how the hell i shall improve from here onwards ?

i checked that stuff and realized:

- to update pvp conquest 200 gear you need 1400 rating - no chance for me
- to get into HC pug raid with 202/203 ilvl ? no chance
- m+ gives exactly 200 for +7 till +10 (WTF ???)
- VP -> KSM10 needed to upgrade, and noone sane wanna spend capped VP for lowlvl items (most idiotic system ever)

so, how the hell this should work, when not waiting weeks for the higher ilvl item once per week by greater vault or joining a guild???

the heck, you can not improve your character at this point. WTF ???

just take a imaginary character, put 200 item level on every slot (and a few 207 from last bosses) and then tell me how and where exactly this char should go and get higher drops there, than the 200 items he already has ??? i dont get it.

what does Blizz think how this should work ???

you can calc the ilvl here: 235 legendary + 2 x 207 + 11 x 200 = 2849/14=203 item level
and how do i get items higher 200 now?

does this progressing/gearing/rewardsystem makes any sense at all ? what i am missing here? plz enlighten me.

A good way is to either buy wow tokens or farm gold and then buy boosts. They are pretty cheap now and should give you a good start. Alternatively try a guild, but you do not want that.
Last idea is to play your own keys. Your itemlevel is high enough for a +11. If you can not manage, try again and again. At some point you will.

Besides that your legendary alone should be 71'08

[chiddie]

If you're failing to time your key, then that means two possible things: You invited the wrong people or you don't have the skill. Both possibilities are exactly why groups have the stringent requirements that they do.

As an aside, I was primarily suggesting that OP make their own heroic raid group so that they can get drops off the easier bosses, thus increasing the likelihood of M+ groups inviting him.

Dude you don’t know people you are inviting. You can GUESS that MAYBE they MAY be good basing on rio, but that’s all. Also if you’re not a tank or a healer you don’t have THAT luxury to select whoever, unless you can afford to spend at least 30 minutes forming a group (I can’t ). I lost count of failed keys even if group seemed good on paper.

[ellieg]

The best part is that WF/TF was quite controversial in Legion/BfA, because it awarded gear far above the content you were doing. But the SL iteration of the weekly chest is effectively a guaranteed crazy TF item /facepalm

The only one thats artificially high is the reward from m+. This is to keep it even with its raid/pvp comparative difficulty, and to offset the artificially low drops in the dungeon themselves. Which theu had to lower since its infinitely repeatable.

[Belloc]

Dude you don’t know people you are inviting. You can GUESS that MAYBE they MAY be good basing on rio, but that’s all. Also if you’re not a tank or a healer you don’t have THAT luxury to select whoever, unless you can afford to spend at least 30 minutes forming a group (I can’t ). I lost count of failed keys even if group seemed good on paper.

Everything you keep saying just further supports the idea that groups are justified in their stringent invite requirements.

[ellieg]

Dude you don’t know people you are inviting. You can GUESS that MAYBE they MAY be good basing on rio, but that’s all. Also if you’re not a tank or a healer you don’t have THAT luxury to select whoever, unless you can afford to spend at least 30 minutes forming a group (I can’t ). I lost count of failed keys even if group seemed good on paper.

Its pretty easy to get 1 tank or 1 healer. From there, it speeds it up. You said you're doing 13s right? Look for ppl who are 1050 rio and have timed at least a 13 of that dungeon. Or ppl that are higher rio but have at least a 12 of that dungeon. Prob 210 ilvl minimum.. closer to 215 better. You're a healer so shldnt be too hard getting ppl. Another tip is to always leave at least 1 dps slot open until u get a tank. A good amount of tanks have some dps they wanna bring along. You're a sham, so lust is covered. Get a brez. Go with ideally 2 ranged 1 melee. Easy key timings.