Why was Arthas wrong?

[huth]

Not this shit again, yes he under Uther as a member of Silver Hand however as prince and future king he outrank Uther outside Silver Hand, there is a reason why Uther didn't arrest and put Arthas in detention and run away like a coward and let everything on Arthas shoulders

No, he doesn't. Uther doesn't arrest Arthas because he does not, at that point, have any actual grounds to do so yet and was likely still hoping Arthas would reconsider. That doesn't make Arthas outrank him, though. It's also questionable whether Uther even has the rights to arrest anybody unless ordered by somebody who does.

Being heir to the throne does not actually give him any direct authority until his father dies, and we don't know what, if any, further titles he had at the time that would have done so. He's the prince and heir to the throne, not the ex-prince and current king.

[Mysterymask]

No, he doesn't. Uther doesn't arrest Arthas because he does not, at that point, have any actual grounds to do so yet and was likely still hoping Arthas would reconsider. That doesn't make Arthas outrank him, though. It's also questionable whether Uther even has the rights to arrest anybody unless ordered by somebody who does.

Being heir to the throne does not actually give him any direct authority until his father dies, and we don't know what, if any, further titles he had at the time that would have done so. He's the prince and heir to the throne, not the ex-prince and current king.

its the middle fucking ages its not like theres a huge criminal justice system uther just has to bring him over..with his SEVERAL witnesses and go "Hey king he tried to burn the village down they all saw him" I mean people were executed back then for waaaay less evidence.

[kaelix1]

No, he doesn't. Uther doesn't arrest Arthas because he does not, at that point, have any actual grounds to do so yet and was likely still hoping Arthas would reconsider. That doesn't make Arthas outrank him, though. It's also questionable whether Uther even has the rights to arrest anybody unless ordered by somebody who does.

Being heir to the throne does not actually give him any direct authority until his father dies, and we don't know what, if any, further titles he had at the time that would have done so. He's the prince and heir to the throne, not the ex-prince and current king.

This is pure nonsense, if Uther had the authority to do it he would have done it BUT he could not because Arthas outrank him, simple fact

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its the middle fucking ages its not like theres a huge criminal justice system uther just has to bring him over..with his SEVERAL witnesses and go "Hey king he tried to burn the village down they all saw him" I mean people were executed back then for waaaay less evidence.

Agree, there is a reason why Arthas disband the order and Uther run with his tail between his legs to the king, he had no authority the moment Arthas pulled his, im the prince and future king card

[Baroclinic]

Could'a maybe cured disease or something, but Arthas was really just after the mount drop.

[huth]

its the middle fucking ages its not like theres a huge criminal justice system uther just has to bring him over..with his SEVERAL witnesses and go "Hey king he tried to burn the village down they all saw him" I mean people were executed back then for waaaay less evidence.

Er... you do remember you're talking about the king's own son here, right? Peasants may not even be considered viable witnesses in such a trial.

This is pure nonsense, if Uther had the authority to do it he would have done it BUT he could not because Arthas outrank him, simple fact

No, that's just something you made up just now. Uther could just as easily not have the authority because he was simply never granted the authority to make arrests (or only to arrest commoners), but still outrank Arthas.

You all have a vastly oversimplified view of how these things work. Even an absolutist king could not simply burn down a city without repercussions. Absolutist just means they're not bound by law, not that they can just do whatever they want without consequences.

[kaelix1]

Could'a maybe cured disease or something, but Arthas was really just after the mount drop.

It was established by that point that the light could not work on the disease and the Dalaran mages could not help them, not sure why people keep bringing this up, they found a cure only in WOTLK even that require to to no be turned

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Er... you do remember you're talking about the king's own son here, right? Peasants may not even be considered viable witnesses in such a trial.



No, that's just something you made up just now. Uther could just as easily not have the authority because he was simply never granted the authority to make arrests (or only to arrest commoners), but still outrank Arthas.

You all have a vastly oversimplified view of how these things work. Even an absolutist king could not simply burn down a city without repercussions. Absolutist just means they're not bound by law, not that they can just do whatever they want without consequences.

Again you are saying pure nonsense, peasants? champ, Jainna/Uther, and half of the silver hand army were there as witnesses and you have the audacity to call them peasants?

ITS A FACTUAL that Arthas outrank Uther, no matter how much bullshit you say you are wrong, simple as that, the fact is, Uther outrank Arthas in Silver hand order while overall Arthas outrank Uther as prince and heir of the kingdom, that's why Uther could not do shit while Arthas purge Stratholme and disband the order, all he could do is run to the king who outrank Arthas

[huth]

ITS A FACTUAL that Arthas outrank Uther

No, it's merely an assumption by you. We have no real evidence on exactly what the ranking structure in Lordaeron was at that time and whether Arthas status as prince and heir even had any relevance in it.

It also doesn't make Arthas any less wrong in his actions.

[Mic_128]

1. He didn't know how many were infected.
2. He didn't know how long they had before some of the population were infected.
3. He didn't explore other options (magic, quarantine, planning, time etc).
4. He ignored the console of his friends and allies without discussion.
5. Misused his authority and used authority he didn't have.
6. Murdered innocent people and gave them no choice.
7. Instructed his own men to burn buildings with people alive in them.

1.yes he did.
2.yes he did.
3.they tried magic, it didn't work. Lol a zombie infection you don't have time. Cause every second spent talking more are turning and more people are dying.
4.excspt he didn't, they didn't put forward anything cause they didn't even know what to do. "There has tobeanother way" ok what? What other way? Then we're are right back to this that is all they said.
5.he did not, and he did have the authority.
6.undead do not get choices.
7.not exactly.

1. Evidence? How many were infected?
2. Evidence? How long did they have?
3. When did they try magic? Did they have a whole army of Paladins when they tried?
4. They didn't have time to do suggest anything. Hell, Uther only just found out about the existence of the plague and was immediately ordered to kill everything. He had been a paladin for a lot longer than Arthas and he could have known something. But Arthas didn't even give him - or Jaina, or the other paladins - time to discuss or think of anything.
5. He didn't have authority to order the Paladins. He misused the authority he did have to basically fire his superiors because they disagreed with him. It was basically the medieval equivalent of an employee firing their manager, because they're the son of the CEO.
6. They weren't all infected, so innocents were killed.
7. He instructed them to burn down the buildings. People who were uninfected were in many of those buildings. It was *exactly* what he said.

[FelPlague]

1. Evidence? How many were infected?
2. Evidence? How long did they have?
3. When did they try magic? Did they have a whole army of Paladins when they tried?
4. They didn't have time to do suggest anything. Hell, Uther only just found out about the existence of the plague and was immediately ordered to kill everything. He had been a paladin for a lot longer than Arthas and he could have known something. But Arthas didn't even give him - or Jaina, or the other paladins - time to discuss or think of anything.
5. He didn't have authority to order the Paladins. He misused the authority he did have to basically fire his superiors because they disagreed with him. It was basically the medieval equivalent of an employee firing their manager, because they're the son of the CEO.
6. They weren't all infected, so innocents were killed.
7. He instructed them to burn down the buildings. People who were uninfected were in many of those buildings. It was *exactly* what he said.

1. evidence, that they had consumed the wheat, they had eaten the bread, and by the fact that when they arrived people were already starting to turn
2. varying amounts, seconds, hours, days, it reacts differently to different people, remember arthas had encountered people turning just earlier, and as they arrived people were starting to turn
3. they tried magic earlier, the kirin tor had even heard rumors and started to look into it
4. they did, but they didnt have anything to suggest.
5. he did.
6. no but most of them were, and with no way of telling who was or who was not, the best he could do was give them a quick death.
7. again there is no possible way to tell who is or who is not infected.

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No, it's merely an assumption by you. We have no real evidence on exactly what the ranking structure in Lordaeron was at that time and whether Arthas status as prince and heir even had any relevance in it.

It also doesn't make Arthas any less wrong in his actions.

he literally does have the rank over uther, its literally in the fucking cinematic. he was the prince of the fucking kingdom, soon to be king, and so yes he outranks the paladins.

[iosdeveloper]

he wasn't, hence the whole tragedy

[huth]

he literally does have the rank over uther, its literally in the fucking cinematic. he was the prince of the fucking kingdom, soon to be king, and so yes he outranks the paladins.

You mean the cinematic where Uther literally says that no, he doesn't? Prince does not tell us that he has authority. It tells us that his father does. Arthas may or may not have had any personal authority granted to him depending on the particular setup of Lordaeron's monarchy. It does not automatically follow that he has any authority whatsoever from him being called prince, and heir to the throne only means that he will have authority if his father dies (and possibly still requires confirmation by other nobles or high ranking church officials).

Do try to stay at least self-consistent in your argumentation. You claim Arthas has evidence of infection, but also argue with the cutscene which includes Arthas just discovering that the grain has already arrived only after Jaina and Uther where already present. How could he possibly have evidence that it had already been consumed? He didn't even know it was there until then. You also claim that the infection is undetectable until death and turning.

Either there is no way for Arthas to have evidence of infection in this scenario until people start turning (which doesn't happen until after Jaina and Uther leave, not immediately upon Arthas' arrival), or you cannot use the cinematic.

If you insist on the cinematic, Jaina and Uther also very clearly had no opportunity to consider or suggest any alternatives, so you're simply lying about your point #4. Arthas immediately begun shouting them down and shoving them away the moment Uther even suggested trying anything else.

Also, your final claim was that he didn't tell his troops to set houses filled with people on fire. Whether you could tell infected apart from uninfected isn't really relevant here; he most definitely did tell his troops to do so and they followed his orders on the matter.

[FelPlague]

You mean the cinematic where Uther literally says that no, he doesn't? Prince does not tell us that he has authority. It tells us that his father does. Arthas may or may not have had any personal authority granted to him depending on the particular setup of Lordaeron's monarchy. It does not automatically follow that he has any authority whatsoever from him being called prince, and heir to the throne only means that he will have authority if his father dies (and possibly still requires confirmation by other nobles or high ranking church officials).

Do try to stay at least self-consistent in your argumentation. You claim Arthas has evidence of infection, but also argue with the cutscene which includes Arthas just discovering that the grain has already arrived only after Jaina and Uther where already present. How could he possibly have evidence that it had already been consumed? He didn't even know it was there until then. You also claim that the infection is undetectable until death and turning.

Either there is no way for Arthas to have evidence of infection in this scenario until people start turning (which doesn't happen until after Jaina and Uther leave, not immediately upon Arthas' arrival), or you cannot use the cinematic.

If you insist on the cinematic, Jaina and Uther also very clearly had no opportunity to consider or suggest any alternatives, so you're simply lying about your point #4. Arthas immediately begun shouting them down and shoving them away the moment Uther even suggested trying anything else.

Also, your final claim was that he didn't tell his troops to set houses filled with people on fire. Whether you could tell infected apart from uninfected isn't really relevant here; he most definitely did tell his troops to do so and they followed his orders on the matter.

Again someone did not read the books, play the game, or do the dungeon, but hey keep spouting off!
fun watching you waste your time.

[tommyhil622]

Again someone did not read the books, play the game, or do the dungeon, but hey keep spouting off!
fun watching you waste your time.

Not sure what you are arguing at this point where every bit of your argument was fact checked and addressed?

[huth]

Again someone did not read the books, play the game, or do the dungeon, but hey keep spouting off!
fun watching you waste your time.

Yes, we know you didn't do that given that you can't seem to get straight what happens in them. Not sure how that is relevant to my post, though.

[FelPlague]

Not sure what you are arguing at this point where every bit of your argument was fact checked and addressed?

Yes, it has been fact checked and addressed. Arthas knew it was too late, arthas knew they were infected and could turn any second, arthas knew the outcome, he knew what happened, and he knew the one thing he could do was to put them out of their mistery.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Not sure why this deserves 23 pages... ? Seems to be talking about 1 specific part of Arthas' journey instead of his entire journey.

[huth]

Yes, it has been fact checked and addressed. Arthas knew it was too late, arthas knew they were infected and could turn any second, arthas knew the outcome, he knew what happened, and he knew the one thing he could do was to put them out of their mistery.

How did he know who was infected and that he was to late? You claim yourself that the infection is undetectable, and Arthas only just arrived, so he had no way of knowing who actually partook of the grain.

No, he merely assumed they were all infected based solely on the fact that the grain was present, yet for some reason you insist on repeatedly lying about this even though you have been corrected multiple times.

[Verdugo]

yet for some reason you insist on repeatedly lying

Says the guy lying about there being cure.

[Aucald]

Says the guy lying about there being cure.

The Plague of Undeath was curable by both the Horde and the Alliance during the WotLK Zombie Infestation event - though it couldn't restore individuals who were already transformed into zombies, it could cure the plague in a living host. Happens during Phase 6 of the event, as detailed here.

[Giovaaa]

No, it's merely an assumption by you. We have no real evidence on exactly what the ranking structure in Lordaeron was at that time and whether Arthas status as prince and heir even had any relevance in it.

It also doesn't make Arthas any less wrong in his actions.

Imagine being this wrong twice in one post. Like you'd need to go out of your way to do so.