Except that is straight false. Its not only not "every" game but actually "barely any" game.
Multiplayer games with loot like fortnite, pubg = false
Multiplayer shooter games like csgo = false
ARPGs = false (there are exceptions here)
Mobas = false
GTA like games = false
Single player games = false
And even in oldschool mmos gear was simply tradable which made that argument completely irrelevant as money could buy you power - as it rightfully should.
Partly why I'm enjoying P99 EverQuest right now. Aside from the fact that it's free and it's the only game my computer can really handle atm, there's the fact that a large portion of player power is tradable and available to everyone with enough grit and hard work*.
*debatable as what's really hard about sitting at a static spawn for hours straight and doing other things in between? I'm cleaning my house in between hill giant spawns right now lols.
Last edited by Tadkins; 2021-04-09 at 11:16 PM.
We have suggested multiple systems that would make you far more powerful in your chosen pursuit (when you are actually playing the expansion, unlike SL which you haven't actually played yet, correct?)- open world solo play. These systems would give you really strong benefits when playing this way, even over raiders and pvpers.
You keep focusing on pvp and saying there is no progression there - you have been told countless times this is incorrect. You play the game, get the honor, spend the honor on pvp gear, which makes you stronger.........in pvp.
You are instantly dismissing all suggestion that do not equal exceedingly powerful gear from solo content. You can already EASILY obtain normal mode equivalent gear, something that has never been the case in wows history before, and you reject this as not good enough.
The real issue is, you are flatout refusing to have an open discussion, and are actively avoiding any reply that doesn't fit your narrative - looking through this thread i see you constantly skip over a dozen or more replies, until someone sorta kinda maybe agrees with you, and then you engage with them. Behaving like this eliminates any opportunity for an open and honest discussion about your concerns, as seeking out an echo chamber as you are does NOT help your argument.
I am only addressing you right now because a friend recommended I do so on this point alone.
Have you considered the fact that maybe I am not talking to certain people because I don't want to speak with folks who gleefully throw around toxicity and insults? I had you on ignore for that reason. I wouldn't be surprised if you've been trying to do it throughout this entire thread. I am perfectly willing to have a civil debate with someone. You're ignoring the backs and forths I've had with some folks that aren't on my side, but aren't being bullies about it. I don't need any more toxicity and abuse in my life and so I will make use of the ignore function. Even at the risk of creating an "echo chamber" (which is untrue as I just said), it's far more preferable than being talked down to and called names all day.
As to your point, imagine if someone stuck to nothing but heroic dungeons all day. That was what they liked, that was what they were comfortable with, and they acquired a gear level that was appropriate for that content. Now imagine if queued heroic dungeons randomly featured bosses from other difficulties. First boss is at heroic level, second boss ends up being the M0 version, with the third boss being a heroic one again, finally ending with the 4th boss being its tyrannical +15 version.
Would you call that fair? That is essentially what it is like in PvP right now. I as a solo queue random BGer do not get a choice in who to fight and the game does not care that my gear level can't fight a mythic raider or +15 keystone master. The gear I am given is not good enough for that, yet I am facing those challenges anyway.
Your next response will determine whether we can continue the discussion in a civil manner between you and I.
You want to casually queue and automatically have an upper hand against everybody. Including those that do the most difficult content. Its not gonna happen. You're mistemembering the past. Even in other xpacs, super pve heroes shit all over random bgers. Rated pvpers always beat casual pvpers
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Wouldn't even have to segregate the BGs either. Templates would be fine too.
I don't mind losing when it comes to skill, or if they happen to muster more numbers at the time. It's just disheartening when you're dying constantly with no hope of fighting back because they happen to have better gear.
No, you CAN, but are unwilling to. The irony of this entire discussion is that Blizzard have systems in place to help players like yourself, to keep them from constantly encountering superior players - rated content. You have said before that you could never make it to 1800 - and I have great news for you! Since you will be rated far below 1800, you are unlikely to encounter many if any players who are 1800+. The game has systems to help you, and you refuse to take advantage of them, and instead want the game changed to suit your very unique personal situation.
You are openly asking for gear that far exceeds your skill level to compensate for your lack of ability, and I'm sorry, but that is not how any of this works. They will and do give you some help with TIME, such as catch-up mechanics, but they cannot gift gear to compensate for low skill play.
There is a difference between being unwilling to and not having the confidence and fortitude. I want to do that content, I'm just terrified of messing up in front of people and being yelled at. I'm terrified of signing up for a pug, not knowing whether they'll be cool people or toxic ragers. I'm genuinely scared of making mistakes and losing a few games and getting yelled at. And yes if Skirmishes taught me anything I am probably going to spend an entire night doing nothing but losing. Who is going to put up with that especially when arenas don't award anything for losing?
I'm not asking for anything more than what we had before, the ability to earn conquest gear on our own at a slow trickle.
That's a straight up lie. We can even look to games in the same genre to disprove it. FFXIV has barely any toxicity at all, not in game and not on forums. SWTOR, ESO are also pretty chill places.
WoW is the exception. WoW has more toxicity per capita than all the other MMORPGs combined.
How do you know that the honor gear is not good enough for this purpose? Since you do not play SL, and literally never have, you have zero experience. I do have experience in SL, and am telling you that the gear you have access to is equivalent to the old gear you had access to. I am also telling you that casual / solo players have access to gear more powerful in comparison to group content gear than any other first tier in wows history.
You keep saying things used to be better because you could spend months farming gear, but ignore the fact that you still started in the exact same position as you do now. This hasn't changed - you still faced higher geared players, geared from either pve or pvp. You would still have been thumped just as hard then as now (as you wrongly assume you will be). You talk about resilience, while ignoring two key facts - the geared player you were facing still had twice the resil you did, so yet again, nothing has changed. And lastly, pvp gear has heavy weights of vers on it, for a similar result to resil.
Nothing has changed, you havnt even played the game to back up your stance at all, and you completely ignore all the people saying "you are wrong, you will be fine, it's the same it always was - just play the game and you'll see"
Going by sheer numbers there. I did play not too long ago and I know how ilvls work.
BfA I could earn a set of 460 gear on my own. The highest available was 475 given to 15 key runners and mythic raiders. A 460 player vs a 475 player did not have that big of a disadvantage, generally speaking.
Not only in SL do you have smaller ilvls, but you have a bigger gap. Be honest, how much of a chance is a 200 player *really* going to have against a 226 player?
That ENTIRELY depends on how they play - the game is NOT balanced around 1v1, as i have mentioned multiple times before, so your "who would win in a fight, batman or wolverine" question is entirely irreverent. This is a TEAM game - you play bgs with a team - stick with them, play correctly, fight on nodes and follow instruction - you'll be absolutely fine, just like the tens of thousands of other players playing the same game I am. And you mysteriously ignore the reality that both teams are equally as likely to have these mysterious bis 226 players, so as it is a TEAM activity, the playing field is level.
You also only present literally the most extreme example you possibly can - you always only say "200 vs 226" you never say "207 vs 212" or anything in between - its always these mysterious bis max ilvl gods who apparently queue in entire teams, avoid the premade barrier, and run around stomping people in random bgs. As i have said multiple times - the scenarios you constantly present - the arguments you have hidden behind for 50 pages - they are NOT based in reality - and you would know this if you had actually played SL.
And sometimes you need to go off on your own, especially if you need to go for an achievement. Not in a single game of Silvershard have I been able to convince anyone to help with the carts achievement. Being able to survive on your own is something valued by some. Maybe not to you, but it is why I primarily played Arcane on my mage in PvP, it gave me the mobility and defenses needed to 1v1. Finding and sticking to the group the entire game like a baby to its mother is not always a fun way to play, especially when you die and can't always get back. You're in Warsong Gulch and a flag carrier is running home totally unopposed with your entire allied team fighting in the middle; do you keep fighting in the middle yourself because your entire team is there, or do you take it upon yourself to at least try to slow the flag carrier a bit and actually try to win?
You say that those scenarios I describe don't happen; c'mon now, they can and have happened quite a bit. You're seriously going to claim that bored 226 groups aren't going to queue for randoms with their buddies just to flex a bit to us "casual randoms"? Explain why I was in games during BfA where my entire team was 300kish HP, while the entire opposing team was 400-500k or higher in some cases.
Last edited by Tadkins; 2021-04-10 at 03:17 AM.
Have you not paid attention to complaints about arenas in SL? The exact numbers may be off some, but the general idea is, you can be playing at 1400 MMR in 2s and still be facing 226 ilvl, 2400+ experience and up boosters playing with lower MMR players who are paying for a carry. And as you might expect the matchup isn't very fair. I know this but I don't even play SL.
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FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS