Is Sylvanas the most evil character ever in WoW or just misunderstood?

[cparle87]

Idk if Sylv gurl is the most evil character in WoW, but she's certainly the dumbest one. Imagine hating Arthas so much only to end up licking the boots of Arthas' employer lul.

Considering Kael'thas ended up working for Arthas' employer at the time...?

[BaumanKing]

Idk if Sylv gurl is the most evil character in WoW, but she's certainly the dumbest one. Imagine hating Arthas so much only to end up licking the boots of Arthas' employer lul.

She is obviously using him, besides it wasn't Jailor who ordered Arthas to invade Quel'Thalas. Also in lore Sylvanas is considered to be very smart. Much smarter than her dumb sisters anyway.

[Kumorii]

Depends heavily on how they resolve this arc she is on.

[Dazlartist]

Those thighs are mighty good!

[VladlTutushkin]

Depends heavily on how they resolve this arc she is on.

There is no way they can resolve it without either pissing off her fanclub OR half the Horde and entire Alliance fanbase.

[Kumorii]

There is no way they can resolve it without either pissing off her fanclub OR half the Horde and entire Alliance fanbase.

Have you met the fanbase? They will be pissed of regardless of what they do :P

[VladlTutushkin]

Have you met the fanbase? They will be pissed of regardless of what they do :P

Not really. Because there can be only two ways it ends. Or rather two and some variations of the two.

1) She dies.

2) She lives.

Then lots of details you can put on either which will make it like... 5% more palatable for each group.
If she lives Alliance and non-genocidal Horde are pissed.
If she dies her fanclub is pissed and i will not put past them to take a few of their own lives as they promised once before.

[Hellobolis]

she doesn't do her evil deeds for the sake of being evil, but out of survival and/or some grand plan. so that makes your average demon more evil.

and if you want to go by bodycount she isn't making any top ten lists either.

[Omedon]

Depends heavily on how they resolve this arc she is on.

So much does. So very much. I almost don't want to trust them with their own story haha!

There is no way they can resolve it without either pissing off her fanclub OR half the Horde and entire Alliance fanbase.

They know this, and toxicity is a bottom line issue in games as big as WoW. There's only one right answer on this axis.

Sylvanas loyalism among PCs was decanonized by the end of BFA for a reason.

[sam86]

she is a sh8t character, due to many sh8tcons
she was a heavily represnted character in warcraft, yet only in BFA, we discover that her 'long dream' is to conquer Stormwind, a dream that was so deep she never even thought about it before, and we read her thoughts multiple times
she burned alive innocent civilian women and children in Teldrassil (a MORALLY GREY act i know) yet she started to doubt the jailer when he MC Anduin
she wore a f8cking ugly leather patch over her undead abdomen to cover it, in a world where a mage can fireball u and ur armor to molten crisp
she went from someone who use undead as resource for vengeance against LK to an actual leader, only to discover it was act for herself (again it seems) and they back to resources
she noticed she has boobs in BFA prepatch after 17 years of exposure, and was 'proud' of that (so for 17 years she felt shame for having them or something?)
she loves Nathanos and sacrificed a lot for him, only to shame him and send him on suicide mission (wtf?)
basically Sylvanas is an amalgamation of many characters and personalities result of many writers and different views for her, like how Sarah went from queen of blade to a xel'naga in sc2, at least Sarah has only '2' phases, instead of weird ping pong that is Sylvannas
And I can't wait for her to die and be over with, they ruined her beyond fix position, i loved her wrath (but i know she was evil, like how i love Arthas and loved KT before he became a walking meme), and i loved even more her cata personality, then came legion and it went sh8t weird with no clear view what she should be
If they wanted to redeem her don't make her do MORALLY GREY action like Teldrassil, that act is one if not most evil act in warcraft history (of MORALLY GREY actions), u can't redeem that or else u literally turn evil to a joke, just an emo phase that u grow out of it after few years

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There is no way they can resolve it without either pissing off her fanclub OR half the Horde and entire Alliance fanbase.

1- her fanbase is mostly horny teenagers, they will love next goth chick that replaces her as soon they introduce skimpy one
2- even so, her haters outnumber the supporters by miles, if i'm at blizz i'd go with that path easily because while her fanbase is volatile and insanely loyal, they are still too minor to risk the far major haters club

i didn't vote because i want option D: she is a sh8t character

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She has her dere dere moments, so while quite evil not the most evil. Gul'dan is the most honestly evil character in Warcraft imo, followed by his bosses Kil'jaeden and Archimonde.

Gul'dan used to be most evil, but blizz sh8t on that and now he is a teenage boy who got bullied and is trying to take revenge on everyone for not helping him /cry
Gul'dan backstory ruined him, i loved him being evil incarnate, not an emo kid

Sylvanas: Literally, time after time, does acts of horrendous evil


Blizzard's attempts at 5D chess writing: misunderstood and "morally gray


/queue Thomas the Tank Engine theme, shitty flute remix

u mean burning innocent civilians women and children alive and condemn them to hell forever isn't MORALLY GREY act as blizz said? Blasphemy!

[ArthasFanboy]

Also:

Evil:
Kill Lord Garithos (the best lore character) and his soldiers after used them to retake the Capital of Lordaeron
Possibly she ordered the Warthgate event (according to Chronicles III)
Good:
She convinced the rest of the Horde to give protection to his old people (blood elves) against the scourge in their moment of need


Note: Yeah, she is evil

[rowaasr13]

She's edgelord's wet dream: "I want to be as much asshole as I want without any consequences." Why some people like her? EXACTLY because she's that dream. Because those people dream of being all-mighty and do whatever the fuck they please without any care and punishment. Come on - there's lots of squealing over Bonnie and Clyde for a century already! Boston Marathon Bomber had tons of fangirls. Are the "mIsUnDeRstOoD" and doing something for "greater good" and are worthy of "redemption"? No, they're shitty fucktardedly disgustingly evil. As well as uber-selfish and hypocrite as well. And nothing will ever change or "redeem" that.

[VladlTutushkin]

She's edgelord's wet dream: "I want to be as much asshole as I want without any consequences." Why some people like her? EXACTLY because she's that dream. Because those people dream of being all-mighty and do whatever the fuck they please without any care and punishment. Come on - there's lots of squealing over Bonnie and Clyde for a century already! Boston Marathon Bomber had tons of fangirls. Are the "mIsUnDeRstOoD" and doing something for "greater good" and are worthy of "redemption"? No, they're shitty fucktardedly disgustingly evil. As well as uber-selfish and hypocrite as well. And nothing will ever change or "redeem" that.

Yep. Thats about it. Main reason people latch to her and "her" version of the horde so much is because that allowed them to be as much of vile, evil, genocidal jerks as they wanted while Alliance was forced to be meek, timid, barely fighting weaklings who were not only weak enough to beat easily and "with gusto" but also pathetic enough to forgive you later on so you dont even have to feel bad about pulverizing them in the first place.

Such "enjoyment" which comes at the expense of another half of the playerbase is why i cant stand horde nor its fans. They just want to vent their stress and/or live their fantasy of being overpowered villains who crush "losers" under their heel and then not get so much as stern talking to for that. Its a parasitic and selfish mentality which will never work in an MMO without prompting the aggrieved half of the players to quit the game en-masse and seek alternatives that do not ask for 15 dollars per month... to humiliate you.

Blizz obviously expected people who are fed up with being victims to leave "loser Alliance" and join "cool Horde" (while bringing them those sweet, sweet faction change and server change dollars) but they forgot that the unsubscription option also exists and readily available for any player.

Horde has to figure it out - they want to be absolute assholes and maniacs... but then be treated as such by narrative, neutral NPCs and also get their face smashed into the floor by Alliance retaliation after they try and burn another city... OR if they want to be treated same as Alliance heroes but in that case they have to actually be heroic and not villainous. No, not even just "villainous", its more like... "annoyingly villainous".

[Xykotic]

Actually Bolvar is the true villain, pretending he isn't lich kingish, that he is a "good guy" he just want to level up n take the jailor's power...

he will betray us, u will see!

Man I hope so. Bolvar LK making some moves in Legion was my favorite "new lore" since Cataclysm. To see that all just bitchslapped down by The Bitch herself was just painful.

[loras]

It's hard not to consider her evil, even before cataclysm, but she used to have an apparant, valid and understandable reason, even if it was often hypocritical or downright stupid.

So yeah, evil in any case, but raidboss-fodder evil? That's recent. Honestly the biggest fault lies with the Horde for not kicking her out sooner, but given that their main goal is survival they understandably let her stay so long as she was "on their side".
That it was her choice to ditch them was just... yeah.

[Raisei]

she doesn't do her evil deeds for the sake of being evil, but out of survival and/or some grand plan. so that makes your average demon more evil.

and if you want to go by bodycount she isn't making any top ten lists either.

You do realize that the demons are trying to stop the Void from consuming the universe yes? Granted, they do it by destroying the universe, but still, this is exactly the kind of grand plan that Sylvanas is following now.

And her need for survival only explains a few of her evil deeds. At the start of her unlife she explicitly only cared about her vengeance and murdered hundreds of innocents for that, she was ready to walk over anyone and everything to get to Arthas. And this selfishness is reflected in her contemporary deeds. Yes, she tells Anduin that she does all this to make a better world, give everyone free will and such, but the true reason is simply that she expected to be granted a happily ever after after her death and did not get it.
So because the system did not conform to her wishes, she will break it all, no matter how much death, destruction and terror she has to inflict upon everyone else, to do so.

A selfish reason like this is simply not enough to justify her acts, all villains have some sort of reason for what they do and all feel they are justified. We can't judge them by their own fantasies or none of them could ever be called evil. We can only judge them by their deeds and Sylvanas has been gleefully murdering innocent people for decades now, which makes her nothing but evil.

[Hellobolis]

You do realize that the demons are trying to stop the Void from consuming the universe yes?

only like 5 demons knew about that.

And her need for survival only explains a few of her evil deeds. At the start of her unlife she explicitly only cared about her vengeance and murdered hundreds of innocents for that, she was ready to walk over anyone and everything to get to Arthas. And this selfishness is reflected in her contemporary deeds. Yes, she tells Anduin that she does all this to make a better world, give everyone free will and such, but the true reason is simply that she expected to be granted a happily ever after after her death and did not get it.

that's still a better reason than simply doing it for funsies.

A selfish reason like this is simply not enough to justify her acts, all villains have some sort of reason for what they do and all feel they are justified. We can't judge them by their own fantasies or none of them could ever be called evil. We can only judge them by their deeds and Sylvanas has been gleefully murdering innocent people for decades now, which makes her nothing but evil.

so where does self defense fall into this theory of yours?

and i never said she wasn't evil. i said she doesn't make any top 10 most evil lists.

[Raisei]

so where does self defense fall into this theory of yours?

When exactly did she do evil things in self-defense? Certainly not at Gilneas, not during the Trial of Garrosh and most definately not when she burned down Teldrassil. She had a constant and near psychotic fear of death and because of that she made sure to never be anywhere close to the action, if she could help it. But that does not qualify her for a self-defense excuse.
And on top of that self-defense has a very clear limit. If someone attacks you, you may defend yourself, that is fine. But murdering them, then proceeding to murder their entire family and pets would be seen as excessive and no longer justified and that is what Sylvanas tends to do (see her plot around Derek Proudmore).

and i never said she wasn't evil. i said she doesn't make any top 10 most evil lists.

I am not so sure here. She has been pretty good at hiding her evil shit, but all the things she has done since her free will returned combined makes for an impressive amount of bodies. Garithos' troops, her Plague guinea pigs, Hilsbrad, (probably) Wrathgate, Gilneas, Southshore and now Teldrassil. And at this moment she is heavily working on undoing reality which would likely cost trillions of lifes.
Yes, she can't yet compete with people like Archimonde and Kil'jaeden, but they had a lot more time, many many millenia more.

[BrintoSFJ]

"She's a douche! She's a douche! She is totally a douche! She is a dooooooouuuuuche...."

Something like that...

[Hellobolis]

When exactly did she do evil things in self-defense? Certainly not at Gilneas, not during the Trial of Garrosh and most definately not when she burned down Teldrassil. She had a constant and near psychotic fear of death and because of that she made sure to never be anywhere close to the action, if she could help it. But that does not qualify her for a self-defense excuse.
And on top of that self-defense has a very clear limit. If someone attacks you, you may defend yourself, that is fine. But murdering them, then proceeding to murder their entire family and pets would be seen as excessive and no longer justified and that is what Sylvanas tends to do (see her plot around Derek Proudmore).

see thats the issue. self defense stops being self defense at some arbitrary point. sometimes people call pre-emptive strikes self defense. sometimes stand your ground counts as self defense, sometimes you have a duty to flee. sometimes it's self defense if you believe you are in danger, and sometimes it only counts if you actually are in danger. it's not very black and white even in the real world.

now add in the knowledge of eternal suffering post death and self defense starts to take on a whole new meaning yet again.

I am not so sure here. She has been pretty good at hiding her evil shit, but all the things she has done since her free will returned combined makes for an impressive amount of bodies. Garithos' troops, her Plague guinea pigs, Hilsbrad, (probably) Wrathgate, Gilneas, Southshore and now Teldrassil. And at this moment she is heavily working on undoing reality which would likely cost trillions of lifes.
Yes, she can't yet compete with people like Archimonde and Kil'jaeden, but they had a lot more time, many many millenia more.

but how many people was that really? hillsbrad was a small town. wrathgate was just some armies. teldrassil was just 50k people.

compare it to the scourge. stratholme was 150k people and that was just one of a couple dozen cities razed.

sylvanas sounds pretty average for a wow scale conflict.