Potential race/class combinations

[Julmara]

@username993720 theres priests thou so they seem to understand what the light is they just have a different name for it maybe
and since warriors exist paladins could be possible

[Psykho]

What about the Church of Light in Stormwind?

Sorry I meant "only OTHER in-game Church", didn't catch that error

[username993720]

Sure, that can be fun, it's more or less what I suggested. Though I think that in a lot of cases, one race teaching another simply makes the most sense, I would just make game content out of it in order to unlock it.

What I think we are missing a bit these days are the trips to a class trainer. It's how we learned how Dwarves were able to be Paladins, for example. We don't get a lot of class exposition anymore. I think having one race train another makes a ton od sense, but I think we should definitely see and experience that. One of the lamest things about MoP was how we all woke up one morning and could make a Monk of almost any race, with little to no explanation. That sucked from an interest standpoint. But, if Panadaren could travel the world and teach races how to be a Monk in that short of time, it seems silly that Dwarves wouldn't have taught Gnomes to be Paladins, for example.

Exactly.
So, why want it?

@username993720 theres priests thou so they seem to understand what the light is they just have a different name for it maybe
and since warriors exist paladins could be possible

You are right. It is still unclear:
"One other possibility would be that the term is not used on the Wandering Isle, Jojo's home, but is used widely among pandaren priests on Pandaria itself. Pandaren priests on the Wandering Isle may then share the same beliefs as their Pandarian brethren and simply use different terms, or may have more substantially differing ways."

If there would be Pandaren Paladins, the light they draw upon wouldn't be the Holy Light like the Humans, or the Naaru like the Draenei, or the Sunwell like the Blood elves, or An'she like the Tauren, but rather the August Celestials like Zandalari Prelates draw from their Loa.

Sorry I meant "only OTHER in-game Church", didn't catch that error

There's a chapel in Kul Tiras called Whitegrove Chapel.

[Sunderella]

I could see Orcs becoming Deamon Hunters. After suffering demonic corruption and having their lifestyle destroyed I could see them once more infusing themselves with the power of the enemy to end demon wherever they found them. To a lesser extent I could see the Draenei going Demon Hunter too although I think they would have quite a big prejudice againts consuming fel energies because of al that besties with the light/lawful good theme they have going on for them.

[Razion]

Every race can be anything unless their very nature prohibits them (ie: void elf using light)

Light and Void are two halves of the same coin, see Naaru and Discipline specs - Void Elves preach balance and control, not to fall entirely to Void. Light has been demonstrated to mix and flip with/from Void on a dime when necessary.

[jellmoo]

Exactly.
So, why want it?

Because it's far from the same thing. It's not suddenly every race learning something they had never been exposed to at the same time as we actually find this mysterious new continent. It's races learning from those they have been literally living with for years.

[username993720]

Light and Void are two halves of the same coin, see Naaru and Discipline specs - Void Elves preach balance and control, not to fall entirely to Void. Light has been demonstrated to mix and flip with/from Void on a dime when necessary.

Actually, it's forsaken that preach that.
More specifically, the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow.

Because it's far from the same thing. It's not suddenly every race learning something they had never been exposed to at the same time as we actually find this mysterious new continent. It's races learning from those they have been literally living with for years.

Hmmm... still would like a unique background.

[Psykho]

There's a chapel in Kul Tiras called Whitegrove Chapel.

Okay on that point in my defense Whitegrove Chapel doesn't have a whole lot of religion going on in comparison to the Stormwind Cathedral, As far as I remember there is only ever 1 priest seen there and it's in a flashback to an important Drustvar characters wedding, though that could be justified by how the place is semi-abandoned

Hell, at least the lack of priests in the Gilnean Cathedral is justified by both times we go there have it effectively overrun/occupied by enemies

[username993720]

Okay on that point in my defense Whitegrove Chapel doesn't have a whole lot of religion going on in comparison to the Stormwind Cathedral, As far as I remember there is only ever 1 priest seen there and it's in a flashback to an important Drustvar characters wedding, though that could be justified by how the place is semi-abandoned

Hell, at least the lack of priests in the Gilnean Cathedral is justified by both times we go there have it effectively overrun/occupied by enemies

I think the reasoning for no Worgen Paladins was that Paladins were immune to plagues and diseases, and i guess curses too, but i can't seem to find that.

[jellmoo]

Hmmm... still would like a unique background.

Does each and every race/class combo warrant one?

For example, is the storytelling requirement as high if we were to add Tauren Rogues as it would be to add Forsaken Druids?

- - - Updated - - -

I think the reasoning for no Worgen Paladins was that Paladins were immune to plagues and diseases, and i guess curses too, but i can't seem to find that.

Another question would be whether or not that is retroactively applicable. For example, a Gilnean Paladin being immune to becoming a Worgen versus an already made Worgen becoming a Paladin.

[Psykho]

I think the reasoning for no Worgen Paladins was that Paladins were immune to plagues and diseases, and i guess curses too, but i can't seem to find that.

Didn't we have a whole questline in Wrath where we go around trying to cure a Paladin of the Plague, I believe it was a tribute to someone but still

Hell, for all we know it's just the Fel/Death/Shadow variety of curses Paladins are resistant to, they might not have the same resistance to a Nature curse

[Larodar]

Siege of Orgrimmar had Blind Blademasters (notice the blindfold and body tattoos):
I don't see a reason why there couldn't be an Orcish version of this:
Gul'dan, already, had something similar ,during the Nighthold raid:
Much like how Illidan consumed the Skull of Gul'dan (a demonic artifact) to empower himself and become a demon, Orcs drank the Blood of Mannoroth to empower themselves and become demonically corrupted:
Yet, they hate the demons as much as the Illidari, for corrupting their race and destroying their world. Orcs are no strangers to demon-slaying:

Much like the Worgen, the Orc clans had a connection to Goldrinn, who revealed himself to them on Draenor. This can be seen by their connection to wolves:
"Lo'Gosh has always been with the orcs on Draenor as a part of their Horde, in their instincts and blood. When the orcs arrived on Kalimdor, they were told of Lo'Gosh by the tauren. The orcs adopted him as their hero on this new world, for they considered that the will of orcs is strong like his and, like him, not even death can stop them."
Orcs, also, have a deep connection to wildlife:
In the RPG sources, Orcs had the Primal class, which is similar to a Druid in many ways

Night elf Shamans, Orc Paladins, Gnome Demon Hunters, Tauren Rogues

[Razion]

Actually, it's forsaken that preach that.
More specifically, the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow.

Quite similar mindsets, isn't it, to lean into the shadow without completely succumbing to it, isn't it?
Void Elves do not preach to fall into Void completely. Void Elves do not seek to be controlled by the Void. They seek to control, to rebel, to be masters of their own fate. If Void Elves preached only of the Void, to fall completely to it and to give themselves completely to it, they would be servants of the Old Gods and an enemy.

So unless you're saying Void Elves are playing an extremely long game of deception to eventually betray all later, then in the meantime we have to take them at their word and trust that they'll do what they have said and have so far tried to practice, that they will continue to try and balance the Void and not fall completely to it. To maintain the level of discipline, literally, to counteract the Void we know is the path of, well, Discipline, and one where Light and Void are in harmony.

But regardless of the Void Elves' alignment, the fact of the matter is that beings of Light and Void like Naaru exist, betraying the entire idea that Light and Void are exclusive. Void Elves can very well have Paladins, as Light and Void are not mutually exclusive, otherwise specs like Discipline or beings like Naaru wouldn't exist at all.

[username993720]

Does each and every race/class combo warrant one?

For example, is the storytelling requirement as high if we were to add Tauren Rogues as it would be to add Forsaken Druids?

Yes, please.
I don't get the desire for lazy writing.
Don't your want an invested-in product?

Another question would be whether or not that is retroactively applicable. For example, a Gilnean Paladin being immune to becoming a Worgen versus an already made Worgen becoming a Paladin.

Hmmm... we'll have to check that out.

Didn't we have a whole questline in Wrath where we go around trying to cure a Paladin of the Plague, I believe it was a tribute to someone but still

Hell, for all we know it's just the Fel/Death/Shadow variety of curses Paladins are resistant to, they might not have the same resistance to a Nature curse

Well, they were basically immune to the plague of undeath, but Blizzard found a way to introduce undead paladins.

Night elf Shamans, Orc Paladins, Gnome Demon Hunters, Tauren Rogues

You'll have to explain why.
Orc Paladins would only occur if Lightbound Orcs join us. I, already, pointed out Tauren Rogues (Grimtotem).

Quite similar mindsets, isn't it, to lean into the shadow without completely succumbing to it, isn't it?
Void Elves do not preach to fall into Void completely. Void Elves do not seek to be controlled by the Void. They seek to control, to rebel, to be masters of their own fate. If Void Elves preached only of the Void, to fall completely to it and to give themselves completely to it, they would be servants of the Old Gods and an enemy.

So unless you're saying Void Elves are playing an extremely long game of deception to eventually betray all later, then in the meantime we have to take them at their word and trust that they'll do what they have said and have so far tried to practice, that they will continue to try and balance the Void and not fall completely to it. To maintain the level of discipline, literally, to counteract the Void we know is the path of, well, Discipline, and one where Light and Void are in harmony.

But regardless of the Void Elves' alignment, the fact of the matter is that beings of Light and Void like Naaru exist, betraying the entire idea that Light and Void are exclusive. Void Elves can very well have Paladins, as Light and Void are not mutually exclusive, otherwise specs like Discipline or beings like Naaru wouldn't exist at all.

First of all, you'd see that in their racials.
Second of all, you can find an example of it in Alonsus Faol, who is depicted as a discipline Priest in Legion (in comparison to Moira, the shadow Priest).
Third of all, discipline Priests aren't really light users, as Shadowform wasn't affected by its spells like the Holy ones.
Naaru might convert between light and void, but they never combine it.
Void elves are like shadow Priests in game. They wield it, but they don't fall to its corruption. That's why you have an insanity bar.
So, no. Void elves, probably, can't be Paladins. They are opposite cosmic forces.

[Razion]

First of all, you'd see that in their racials.
Second of all, you can find an example of it in Alonsus Faol, who is depicted as a discipline Priest in Legion (in comparison to Moira, the shadow Priest).
Third of all, discipline Priests aren't really light users, as Shadowform wasn't affected by its spells like the Holy ones.
Naaru might convert between light and void, but they never combine it.
Void elves are like shadow Priests in game. They wield it, but they don't fall to its corruption. That's why you have an insanity bar.
So, no. Void elves, probably, can't be Paladins. They are opposite cosmic forces.

So, you don't think Disc Priests wield the Light.
And you also don't think Naaru are both Light and Void.

So, follow up question, since all living beings are said to have the spark of Light in them, would you care to explain how that works with every user of the Void currently?

Maybe you would like to extrapolate as well, as how Lightforged Draenei Shadow Priests can be playable and exist, and why Void Elf Paladins wouldn't work when they do?

[username993720]

So, you don't think Disc Priests wield the Light.
And you also don't think Naaru are both Light and Void.

Not quite. You see, Shadowform used to be canceled when you used spells from the Holy tree, but not from the discipline tree. Which, might imply that they're not the same thing.

Naaru are, either, Void or Light. Never a mix between the two.

So, follow up question, since all living beings are said to have the spark of Light in them, would you care to explain how that works with every user of the Void currently?

All living things? or, did you mean the Spark of Life?
Can i get a source for that, please?

Maybe you would like to extrapolate as well, as how Lightforged Draenei Shadow Priests can be playable and exist, and why Void Elf Paladins wouldn't work when they do?

Gameplay mechanics.
You can't prohibit a race from using a spec in game.
Void elves can be Holy Priests for gameplay reasons.

[Razion]

Not quite. You see, Shadowform used to be canceled when you used spells from the Holy tree, but not from the discipline tree. Which, might imply that they're not the same thing.

Naaru are, either, Void or Light. Never a mix between the two.



All living things? or, did you mean the Spark of Life?
Can i get a source for that, please?



Gameplay mechanics.
You can't prohibit a race from using a spec in game.
Void elves can be Holy Priests for gameplay reasons.

In Chronicle v1, it is said the two Light and Void cannot exist without the other. The Light in the same source says it is the source of all life in the cosmos. In Tides of Darkness it is said it resides in every heart and soul (of which Naaru elaborated as Sparks while dead/inert during the Sunwell Plateau epilogue spoken by Velen). Light is said to bind all sentient beings as one. To cut oneself off from this connection, from all Light, is what makes Void so inherently one cannot exist without the other.

[username993720]

In Chronicle v1, it is said the two Light and Void cannot exist without the other.

In the grander scale of things, yes.
It doesn't require mortals to have it.

The Light in the same source says it is the source of all life in the cosmos.

Really?

I know the light has, supposedly, created the universe alongside the Void (which, is retconned in the Shadowlands - claiming the First Ones did it)

I'm aware of spirit being the force that creates life.

Again, would like an exact quote.

In Tides of Darkness it is said it resides in every heart and soul (of which Naaru elaborated as Sparks while dead/inert during the Sunwell Plateau epilogue spoken by Velen).

It's a figure of speech. Meant to inspire and create a sense of awe.

I don't know how canon that is.

Light is said to bind all sentient beings as one. To cut oneself off from this connection, from all Light, is what makes Void so inherently one cannot exist without the other.

Again, sounds like a very general sort of speak.
Otherwise, everyone would wield it.

On the other hand, you could say that they retained their Paladinism from the time that they were Blood elves, but now that they're infused with the Void, it has become something else. Void Knights - the equivalents of Blood Knights.
Though, the animations would be problematic.

[jellmoo]

Yes, please.
I don't get the desire for lazy writing.
Don't your want an invested-in product?

The thing is, some stories are just fundamentally more intricate than others. For example, letting Taurens suddenly roll as Rogues could be a super simple story. Grimtotems get welcome back into Thunder Bluff, Tauren can now roll Rogues. It's a story that doesn't need to be particularly complex. Sometimes good writing is also simple, not lazy.

Night Elf Shaman? Forsaken Paladins? A more intricate story, and one that could definitely benefit from more background and more exposition. Goblin Monks? Barely a story at all. Orc Paladins? Tons of potential to have twists and turns to get to the endgame.

Would I want zero exposition or story for any combo? Absolutely not. I'd like there to be *something* for each of them. I just think that some are more involved than others. And mentioned previously, it's a great opportunity to add interesting content to the game.

[username993720]

For example, letting Taurens suddenly roll as Rogues could be a super simple story. Grimtotems get welcome back into Thunder Bluff, Tauren can now roll Rogues. It's a story that doesn't need to be particularly complex.

A background nonetheless.

Goblin Monks? Barely a story at all.

That's because Monk races are taught by the Pandaren.