Would you play wow with cosmetic only gear?

[arkanon]

It's not 0 but it's comparatively much lower than WoW, almost negligible. There are new CP caps and some passives are outside of the slottable bar. But I would compare this power increase to something like the Concordance node in the Legion artifacts than WoW progression where each expansion you're getting +10 levels AND +100 ilevel. This is like you're getting +X to the points cap resulting in +5% more hp, +5% mana, etc.

Everything else is capped. Level. Gear level (ilevel). They just add more options to choose from.

Ah ok, cool, thanks for the clarity. I understand GW2 has a similar gap - around 5-8% between a brand new character, and a literal full bis character. Strange that so many would claim "you cant have an mmo without gear progression" and yet two of wows biggest competitors have extremely minimal gaps. To be clear, im not claiming an extremely small gap is the same as NONE, but it does show there is an apatite for much closer gearing.

- - - Updated - - -

Weird reaction. Im READING the responses of the people who i presume have voted on the poll. I can see the reasons they gave. I dont need to extrapolate anything.

160 people have voted - like 20 people have commented - that means you have relied on extensive assumptions and extrapolation from a tiny sample size.

[Lost controller]

Yes though I admit I would unsub during patches once ive consumed the content. Would last me about 5-6weeks on average.

[ro9ue]

Ah ok, cool, thanks for the clarity. I understand GW2 has a similar gap - around 5-8% between a brand new character, and a literal full bis character. Strange that so many would claim "you cant have an mmo without gear progression" and yet two of wows biggest competitors have extremely minimal gaps.

Many claim that because the only MMO they play is WoW. But also to be completely fair, both GW2 and ESO have a fraction of the playerbase of WoW. So there may be something more compelling to most players about power climbs. Personally if I have gear I really like, I want to keep it and not see everything just fade into obsolescence every expansion.

[arkanon]

Many claim that because the only MMO they play is WoW. But also to be completely fair, both GW2 and ESO have a fraction of the playerbase of WoW. So there may be something more compelling to most players about power climbs. Personally if I have gear I really like, I want to keep it and not see everything just fade into obsolescence every expansion.

I think the Transmog system goes a LONG way to solving this, but it does remove all of the cool "bonus" features of armors, and in particular, trinkets. I remember all the crazy trinkets that turned you into something wild on use/proc, and its a shame we cant "transmog" that now.

[ippollite]

I knew that would be your claim. So i stand by my edit.
If i cant attribute anything from this poll, how on earth can you?

[Stardrift]

Know what? I gave it a second thought. Fuck stat gear. M+ has nullified raiding whilst being the lamest POS content in the game. They may as well remove stats and ilvl and just go all in on cosmetics.

Yes, I'd still play.

[SinR]

on one hand, the determining factor in a world first boss kill would be player skill, not who can buy the most BOEs off the AH. same goes for PVP, player skill over just outgearing everyone.

on the other, I'm a filthy fucking casual and need that overgear to stand a chance doing anything.

[Soon-TM]

Know what? I gave it a second thought. Fuck stat gear. M+ has nullified raiding whilst being the lamest POS content in the game. They may as well remove stats and ilvl and just go all in on cosmetics.

Yes, I'd still play.

Not only that, but whatever gear (i.e. vertical) progression you may have made at a certain point is effectively invalidated the moment a new patch/expansion comes out. Unless you are a mythic raider, of course, and even then, your progression is short lived (~2/3 months top).

[cparle87]

WoW's endless vertical power progression is the main reason I've been turned off from the game the last few years. It all becomes a meaningless ladder that gets reset every patch and expansion, so for me the cosmetics are more motivating because they're always relevant. But this really isn't an either or question.

It's not a "last few years" thing. It's always been like that.

[ro9ue]

It's not a "last few years" thing. It's always been like that.

Yeah I was saying I was turned off by it from the last few years because of having to constantly do it every expansion. Got old.

[Squiddo69]

Guild Wars 2 does just this (at least the last time I played). Everything is cosmetic in which many can be purchased from the store. Otherwise there are no power increases with gear.

This is completely false. Guild Wars 2 might not have as much of an ilvl difference as WoW (ascended gear being only 5% difference from exotic gear) but the game is very unforgiving if you build your character wrong.

The only part of the game that doesn't require gear is PvP but it sort of has it's own version of gear anyway.

[MrKnubbles]

A system like that only makes sense in PvP. Even so, they tried that and people didn't like it. Personally, I loved it. I feel like it made PvP a lot fairer but I understand how putting in time and effort with no rewards can be disappointing.

[Zmagoslav]

One of the core aspects of a mmorpg is character growth... at least to me
So no, i'd go off to some other game that would allow me to grow my character's power.

[ReesePieces]

I do think it would be a truly eye opening experience for those naïve enough to think the only thing separating their LFR farming group from a mythic raid team is "addons and online guides", but equally I think it would be eye opening for the individuals progressing through Heroic who then try and go stomp the meters in LFR, only to realise they deal similar damage to some more skilled casuals.

You mentioned this in your initial post and are doing it again. Where are you pulling this from?

Where is this group of people that think they are god's gift to the game but just haven't gotten addons or read guides yet?

It seems like you have turned the frustration people express about BiS gear progression being locked away behind such high skill and dedication requirements into a canard about self un-aware imbeciles who think they are the shiznit.

[Stardrift]

Not only that, but whatever gear (i.e. vertical) progression you may have made at a certain point is effectively invalidated the moment a new patch/expansion comes out. Unless you are a mythic raider, of course, and even then, your progression is short lived (~2/3 months top).

If they would fucking get rid of the catchup gear every patch nonsense, or get rid of it completely, we wouldn't have this problem.

[Nacrum]

I understand it changed a fair bit since launch, but yes, this was a big draw for many people - even playing field for everyone, you still earned gear, but it was cosmetic only.

- - - Updated - - -



GW2 touched on this idea, and at one point in development the same was true for SWTOR, with everyone EASILY able to obtain "bis" and then the new content released was just recolours / cosmetics (I had long quit at this stage, and im not sure if it stayed that way). Many SMALLER games under the RPG umbrella absolutely operate this way, specifically from indie devs as it makes balancing the game substantially easier (obviously).

I just find it interesting that there has been outcry since day 1 from people saying its not fair mythic raiders (for example) get the best gear, the most powerful items, and sometimes the best looking gear, and many more have claimed they use gear as a "crutch" and are not really good players, they just get "carried" (by who, i am unsure, but thats the claim). Would this not solve that issue? You suddenly wouldnt need the gear to enter the content - its even footing for everyone, and the same could be said for pvp?

Would a purely skill based game not be more to the liking of the "casual" crowd?

Sounds like a good idea for PVP and maybe even PVE in theory.
Since then it would actually be pure Player vs. Player with no gear-factor involved, I'm not a PVPer though so can't really say.

The acquisition of power is unfortunately a big part of the game though.
So even if it would even the playing field as you say and perhaps even improve the game, I think it would lead to a mass drop-off in subscriptions and active players.
Simply due to the fact that people need the shinies and the fix associated with them to keep them hooked.

In my experience(16 years of raiding on different levels) the "real" high-end raiders are in it for the challenge.
The absolute majority of the player base isnt though, they're mainly in it for the purplez or other character progression in form of power increases, and you'd probably lose a lot of them.
Without those players around to learn and "improve" and become the new high-end raiders, you eventually lose that group as well.

I'm guessing it's pretty similar on the PVP-side unfortunately.
I'd like to imagine that PVP'ers would be open to it. - To create a true contest of skill if nothing else.
But I highly doubt it and I think a big chunk of the PVP-scene are purple-hunters/character power progression junkies as well.

Nowadays I myself am one of those "junkies", casual PVEer, doing m+ and pugging raids.
Would probably quit within a couple of weeks if I didn't feel that I could progress my characters power, since I'm currently just not interested in mythic raiding or other forms of "organized" gameplay.

[Thrif]

Right now I'd welcome that change as m+ is the biggest reason I unsubbed in the first place. I mostly play wow for the social aspect so not having stats would suit me a lot.

Would have to really improve the cosmetics though, right now they are pretty subpar outside of leggos.

Also would have to make it only obtainable during the current patch, or this game would turn into only transmog hunters.

[arkanon]

You mentioned this in your initial post and are doing it again. Where are you pulling this from?

Where is this group of people that think they are god's gift to the game but just haven't gotten addons or read guides yet?

It seems like you have turned the frustration people express about BiS gear progression being locked away behind such high skill and dedication requirements into a canard about self un-aware imbeciles who think they are the shiznit.

Here you go:

This.

This singular argument is the one that makes me laugh the hardest every time it comes up. Downloading and installing addons and macros other people made doesn't make you "better at the game." It makes you a brainless near-bot who couldn't play the game to save their life if said addons and macros weren't telling you what to do every step of the way.

It's always amusing how "unplayable" the game gets whenever one of the bigger addons breaks with a patch or expansion, but miraculously becomes playable the same day its updated.

feel free to browse that thread - others agree. I appreciate you (hopefully) are not this insanely naive, but others certainly are, and genuinely believe a mythic raider is no more skilled or better at the game than someone who struggle to beat the healers on dps in LFR.

[Echocho]

WoW's endless vertical power progression is the main reason I've been turned off from the game the last few years. It all becomes a meaningless ladder that gets reset every patch and expansion, so for me the cosmetics are more motivating because they're always relevant. But this really isn't an either or question.

For me the best iteration I've seen so far is in ESO with massive horizontal progression. To understand how it works I have to explain a bit how it differs from WoW:

Leveling and Champion Points: Level is hard capped at 50 always. After 50 you start getting Champion Points. All of these are account wide so if you have level capped alts progression is always shared and continued across all characters. Champion points are like a tree of passives with special nodes that have to be slotted. You have a limited number of slots available.

Class Design and Skill Lines: ESO is limited to 6 Classes, but you basically build it how you want. If you've played any Elder Scrolls game you're familiar with how it works. Each class has unique 3 skill lines. Then each armor type (light, medium, heavy) has a skill line and every weapon type (bow, daggers, axes, staves, etc) has a skill line. You build your own class through progressing these skill lines and dragging your favorite abilities to a limited hotbar. Because everyone has a limited hot bar bloat has never been an issue they've had to solve. This lets them constantly add all new skill lines (Werewolves, Assassin's Guild, etc) with DLC and expansions, but you're always picking and choosing what abilities you want. More options = horizontal progression. New builds constantly come up and experimentation is a big part of the game.

Gear: Gear level is capped and always relevant with their 'stickerbook' system. Think of the stickerbook as the WoW heirloom system, but it's for every piece of gear in the game. People miss tier in WoW but ESO goes ALL IN on armor sets. Zones have armor sets, dungeons have armor sets, their raids called trials do. You collect set items and they're added to a stickerbook so you can craft them on any character at their gear level. I could be on my level 12 Sorcerer and get a BiS for my main's build, and because it's added to the stickerbook collection I can go on my main and can craft it at his level (at cap). And because gear level is capped, they just can keep adding new sets with new bonuses and people can create their favorite setups based on an ever-expanding gear selection instead of whats just available from the current expansion. Imagine if you just really liked an old WoW tier set from MoP and can use it in Shadowlands.

So with how skill lines and CP have limited slots, they're able to continuously add new abilities and content, but you're never 'bloated'. And because items are gear level capped and they keep adding more gear sets you're constantly able to experiment with new stuff and mix and match.

Personally I love how all gear sets remain relevant, no abilities get taken away, all they do is constantly add to your pool of options and I just can't ever go back.

I agree. ESO is the gold standard when it comes to character progression/customization. It's also the most console friendly MMORPG out there and the battlegrounds are really fun.
It has a little bit for every type of player but you never feel like your particular play style is neglected due to them catering to someone else.

[khazmodan]

Nope.

Growing in power to me is a key aspect of an RPG.

This right here is correct....but...WoW is slowly losing its rpg street cred.