Dreadlord's actions against the Light.

[UndedoKoleda]

It was "basically" confirmed in 9.0 that Denathrius created the Dreadlords. This text shows that the event that caused the Light's attack on Revendreth was caused by them.

Isn't it possible that the Venthyr are based on Nathrezim, rather than the other way around? For all we know maybe the Dreadlords were there first, maybe even before Denathrius. We know for a fact that Anderweald existed, and had population, before the Winter Queen settled/was send there. Why should it be any different for Revendreth?

[huth]

So the Light is blameless again? And dreadlords are to blame for everything? I'm so tired of this. Where is the promised evil Light?

I'm not really following here. It was never claimed that the Light attacked Revendreth without reason. Doesn't mean it is completely blameless, though, it just isn't to be blamed for this particular incident.

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Isn't it possible that the Venthyr are based on Nathrezim, rather than the other way around? For all we know maybe the Dreadlords were there first, maybe even before Denathrius. We know for a fact that Anderweald existed, and had population, before the Winter Queen settled/was send there. Why should it be any different for Revendreth?

TBH, i don't think either is based on the other. More likely Denathrius just created both off the same template - himself.

Also, we don't know that about the Winter Queen. Just that Marasmius was already there in the early days.

[UndedoKoleda]

Also, we don't know that about the Winter Queen. Just that Marasmius was already there in the early days.

Marasmius makes a reference to a time before Winter Queen. He is moaning about how stuff changed when she got there.

And also, the chances that Denathrius made the Dreadlords, are very, very low, in my opinion.

We know that Blizzard are changing lore this expansion, without actually retconning it. Well, making the Dreadlords originate from the Shadowlands, will be a straight out retcon to the previous information that their homeworld is Nathreza.

Plus, Steve Danuser himself in an interview confirmed that the Eternal Ones are similar to Titan Watchers and Keepers, meaning that they are much less important that previously thought.

Do we even get any mention, at all, that some of the Eternal Ones has created any of their followers? They seem more like just appointed leaders to their respective zones. If anything, I'd wager that both the Eternal Ones and the denizens of a given zone resemble a First One, that was likely involved in creation of that Afterlife.

[Mic_128]

We know that Blizzard are changing lore this expansion, without actually retconning it. Well, making the Dreadlords originate from the Shadowlands, will be a straight out retcon to the previous information that their homeworld is Nathreza.

Is it at all possible that Nathreza itself was once a Shadowland that somehow left the realm of death? I mean, it sounds ludicrous, but who knows.

[Gaidax]

Oh wow, thank you guys. So I guess we haven't seen the last of Denathrius.

We didn't, in one of the interviews Blizz told that Denathrius was a popular new character and as such will probably appear again in future.

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As for Dreadlords themselves, I bet their plot will only be truly revealed way in future. Everyone hastily assumes that they are going all in - all eggs in the basket betting on Zovaal, but to me they look like they have A LOT of fallbacks.

And yes we have all these whispers, thousand truths and what not, but it all can be misleading and it's all partial picture anyway. They might allegedly serve Death, but who knows what they actually have in mind or even if it's one goal of united faction or just some splinters all over the place.

[Caerule]

It was "basically" confirmed in 9.0 that Denathrius created the Dreadlords.

Where was this confirmed? Because people keep stating this, folks like Bellular, but as far as I can tell, but this is just speculation?

Don't get me wrong, Denathrius is a Dreadlord. And they do work with him. The Naaru was captured and delivered to Denathrius by the "unseen ones" and delivered to Denathrius. Dreadlords being present at Sinfall is double-confirmed. Denathrius being a dreadlord also explains why he didn't kill his Prince at the end of the Revendreth campain. Dreadlords have rules against killing each other, as seen way back in Warcraft 3. Denathrius can't kill those he considers kin.

But while he is the Sire that sired the Venthyr, there's no strong evidence that he was the first Dreadlord that created the others. I see it way more likely that he's just another Natherzim, that managed to infiltrate the pantheon of Eternal ones, and poison them from within, as Dreadlords do.

The Dreadlords are mighty and numerous. If he was their true master, I don't see why we didn't see any of them in his defense in 9.0.

[Netherspark]

It was "basically" confirmed in 9.0 that Denathrius created the Dreadlords. This text shows that the event that caused the Light's attack on Revendreth was caused by them.

This may not be 100% true. It's very suspicious that the new Deadlord models look like a straight cross between Venthyr and Night Fae. They're just Venthyr with the horns, hooves and fur of the Ardenweald faun people.

[TheFirstOnes]

This may not be 100% true. It's very suspicious that the new Deadlord models look like a straight cross between Venthyr and Night Fae. They're just Venthyr with the horns, hooves and fur of the Ardenweald faun people.

Denathrius has horns and hooves too. Your point?

[Kathranis]

Where was this confirmed? Because people keep stating this, folks like Bellular, but as far as I can tell, but this is just speculation?

Don't get me wrong, Denathrius is a Dreadlord. And they do work with him. The Naaru was captured and delivered to Denathrius by the "unseen ones" and delivered to Denathrius. Dreadlords being present at Sinfall is double-confirmed. Denathrius being a dreadlord also explains why he didn't kill his Prince at the end of the Revendreth campain. Dreadlords have rules against killing each other, as seen way back in Warcraft 3. Denathrius can't kill those he considers kin.

But while he is the Sire that sired the Venthyr, there's no strong evidence that he was the first Dreadlord that created the others. I see it way more likely that he's just another Natherzim, that managed to infiltrate the pantheon of Eternal ones, and poison them from within, as Dreadlords do.

The Dreadlords are mighty and numerous. If he was their true master, I don't see why we didn't see any of them in his defense in 9.0.

Enemy Infiltration all but confirms that their true affiliation is with Death, as they (reluctantly) became demons to infiltrate the plane of Disorder. Denathrius also isn't just called a Dreadlord, he's called the Lord of Dread.

Now, what's not clear is where the nathrezim originated, which is true of Denathrius and the Eternal Ones as well. As the plane of Death is the afterlife, it is necessarily secondary to the plane of Life. Perhaps they are native to the Shadowlands, and Denathrius sired them and sent them into the plane of Life and they settled on a world they named Nathreza. Or perhaps Denathrius was once the mortal ruler of Nathreza and he and his servants created and settled Revendreth after dying and passing on to Korthia or something.

Chicken or the egg, but it doesn't change the fact that barring a surprise twist, they represent Death in the Cosmic War. And Denathrius is likely foremost amongst them.

How Denathrius came to ally with the Jailer and cast aside the (seemingly) noble cause of Revendreth is another matter. Was he always a schemer or was he swayed over time?

[TheFirstOnes]

Enemy Infiltration all but confirms that their true affiliation is with Death, as they (reluctantly) became demons to infiltrate the plane of Disorder. Denathrius also isn't just called a Dreadlord, he's called the Lord of Dread.

Now, what's not clear is where the nathrezim originated, which is true of Denathrius and the Eternal Ones as well. As the plane of Death is the afterlife, it is necessarily secondary to the plane of Life. Perhaps they are native to the Shadowlands, and Denathrius sired them and sent them into the plane of Life and they settled on a world they named Nathreza. Or perhaps Denathrius was once the mortal ruler of Nathreza and he and his servants created and settled Revendreth after dying and passing on to Korthia or something.

Chicken or the egg, but it doesn't change the fact that barring a surprise twist, they represent Death in the Cosmic War. And Denathrius is likely foremost amongst them.

How Denathrius came to ally with the Jailer and cast aside the (seemingly) noble cause of Revendreth is another matter. Was he always a schemer or was he swayed over time?

The Plane of Life isn't Reality, and the Plane of DISORDER is the Nether. Denathrius sent the Dreadlords across all the Cosmic Realms.

[huth]

Marasmius makes a reference to a time before Winter Queen. He is moaning about how stuff changed when she got there.

No, he doesn't. He moans about how things changed since she first got there, not when.

As for the Unseen Guests, i'd put the chances of them being created by Denathrius at about 99.9%. To many hints pointing that way.

That they'd pretend to be from Nathreza if it serves their purposes is perfectly in line with what we know about them.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Where was this confirmed? Because people keep stating this, folks like Bellular, but as far as I can tell, but this is just speculation?

Couple reasons:
The Accuser tells Sire Denathrius "You were once the lord of dread".
Spire of the Unseen Guests is right next to Sinfall.
Enemy Infiltration - Preface, book inside the Spire, mentions a "Master", "This is, after all, the solemn duty for which you sired us.", an "we shall serve as your unseen hand."
Given the nathrezim are called "Unseen Guests" Z'rali states that these "unseen ones" consider Denathrius to be their "Sire".

[Alanar]

This may not be 100% true. It's very suspicious that the new Deadlord models look like a straight cross between Venthyr and Night Fae. They're just Venthyr with the horns, hooves and fur of the Ardenweald faun people.

Furs on legs and arms has been a dreadlord thing for longer time. Fauns are the ones who are not very original.

Also male model looks more like illidan more then fauns lol. So no, fauns are out.

[Kathranis]

The Plane of Life isn't Reality.

What are you basing that on? Why wouldn't the plane of Life be where mortal beings live? And where else would the plane of Life be? How would you get there? When living beings die, they go to the Shadowlands, and when dead souls come back to Life, they return to the mortal realm. Life magic manifests as plants and growth and evolution and adaptation, all things that occur naturally in the mortal realm.

[Alanar]

The Plane of Life isn't Reality, and the Plane of DISORDER is the Nether. Denathrius sent the Dreadlords across all the Cosmic Realms.

And also the leader of hes people the Venthyr. So we just casually slain the leader of 1: covenant, 2: leader of hes venthyr and also leader of the Nathrezim.

Seems all very convenient, I expect there is more to him.

[TheFirstOnes]

What are you basing that on? Why wouldn't the plane of Life be where mortal beings live? And where else would the plane of Life be? How would you get there? When living beings die, they go to the Shadowlands, and when dead souls come back to Life, they return to the mortal realm. Life magic manifests as plants and growth and evolution and adaptation, all things that occur naturally in the mortal realm.

Because the Cosmic Realms are of their own section on the chart. Reality has always been it’s own thing

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And also the leader of hes people the Venthyr. So we just casually slain the leader of 1: covenant, 2: leader of hes venthyr and also leader of the Nathrezim.

Seems all very convenient, I expect there is more to him.

He’s not dead yet

[Alanar]

Because the Cosmic Realms are of their own section on the chart. Reality has always been it’s own thing

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He’s not dead yet

I know..., but thanks.

[Kathranis]

Because the Cosmic Realms are of their own section on the chart. Reality has always been it’s own thing

The Shadowlands aren't a separate section of the chart like Life, Death, Void, etc. They're just a little plane orbiting reality across from the Dream. The Twisting Nether isn't even depicted.

I wouldn't take that chart as a literal cosmological map. It just visually represents how the cosmic forces relate to one another.

[TheFirstOnes]

The Shadowlands aren't a separate section of the chart like Life, Death, Void, etc. They're just a little plane orbiting reality across from the Dream. The Twisting Nether isn't even depicted.

I wouldn't take that chart as a literal cosmological map. It just visually represents how the cosmic forces relate to one another.

The Cosmic chart isn't the full thing. The Shadowlands isn't even depicted well at all within the Chronicle either. That's why SL exists...to expand on what the Cosmic Chart started.

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Every power has a Cosmic Realm. The Light has the realm of Light, the Void Lords live within the realm of Void, Life and Death have their own realms (Such as the Gardens of Life, and the Shadowlands), Order and Disorder even have their own realms (Order is unknown atm, but Reality is kind of apart of the Realms of Order, but Reality is also a mix of the other forces, so who knows, and Disorder has the Nether), so I don't get the argument here.

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I know..., but thanks.

Ehhhh

You said we casually slain him, which we never did. All we did was destroy his physical body. To "slay" him would be to actually kill the fucker.

[huth]

The Shadowlands aren't a separate section of the chart like Life, Death, Void, etc. They're just a little plane orbiting reality across from the Dream. The Twisting Nether isn't even depicted.

I wouldn't take that chart as a literal cosmological map. It just visually represents how the cosmic forces relate to one another.

The chart is also limited to what the Titans knew of the world. That mostly tells us they know very little about the afterlife.