Ardenweald Assault [Massive Spoilers]

[huth]

The Titans had no need to be after Azeroth, same with the other Forces. You're right with Sargeras. Tho, it seems Azeroth is more unique than we know, since the Jailer seemingly wants to claim her as "the final prize" AKA the "Secret that the First Ones sought to hide", hence why he made Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination using the Primus. Maybe, if he kills Azeroth's World Soul, makes her into a Mawsworn, and gains that power for himself (Like he drains her of her power and he gains it), he'll basically have full control over existence, ya know? Though, that's simply an assumption on my end.

It wasn't suggested anywhere that the Secret has anything to do with Azeroth. On the other hand, we know that the 5 sigils are in some way related to a place called the Sepulcher. I don't think he even cares that much about Azeroth itself, he seems to treat it more as a source for weapons to use against the Covenants. See Anduin. He's probably still going for the same thing he was the first time around, and he didn't bother ripping open the sky over Azeroth back then.

I'm not entirely sure if he wasn't just talking about the sword and helm when he mentioned the secret, either.

[Alanar]

The Jailer just sucks cuz hè had no build up. Just a ton of things hè, apperently, did. And that's why hè is a horrible villian..
On Sylvanas, she is destroyed. Blizz made the most interessting character a puppet. From trying to be good, while dead and traumatized, she Just wnet ballistic apeshiit...because? Something about her dead, but yeaa...its dogshiit.

Yea Zovaal is very generic and exactly as you said he appearntly did all these things, but we are just getting that told now which feels lame.

No one ever heard of him before so keeping him shrouded in mystery all the time doesnt help to like him. They tried that mystery with whole of bfa with Sylvanas. Everyone hated the fact we didnt know shit the whole time. Which was just annoying. The jailer is just following those footsteps.

Hes model also isnt helping.

[TheFirstOnes]

It wasn't suggested anywhere that the Secret has anything to do with Azeroth. On the other hand, we know that the 5 sigils are in some way related to a place called the Sepulcher. I don't think he even cares that much about Azeroth itself, he seems to treat it more as a source for weapons to use against the Covenants. See Anduin. He's probably still going for the same thing he was the first time around, and he didn't bother ripping open the sky over Azeroth back then.

I'm not entirely sure if he wasn't just talking about the sword and helm when he mentioned the secret, either.

We actually don't know about the Sepulcher. We only know that the Arbiter remains the final Key, and that the Primus doesn't want Zovaal to reach the Sepulcher, which can be anywhere. Do we know where the Primus' sigil is at even? Or?

The thing could be the Sepulcher. But the thing is that he called Frostmourne and the Helm the Primus' "grandest design to claim the final prize". So, idk.

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I'm certain all the Jailer wants is Azeroth's power. I don't think he wants the Titan herself. Cause it seems like Azeroth's got some shit within her that's way more than just "HURR TITAN HURR". Not like it would matter anyway, since potentially, Ascended Zovaal (Gonna call him that now) would essentially be more powerful than Sargeras already, since he rules the Shadowlands (If 9.1 ends the way we think it will).

[huth]

We actually don't know about the Sepulcher. We only know that the Arbiter remains the final Key, and that the Primus doesn't want Zovaal to reach the Sepulcher, which can be anywhere. Do we know where the Primus' sigil is at even? Or?

The thing could be the Sepulcher. But the thing is that he called Frostmourne and the Helm the Primus' "grandest design to claim the final prize". So, idk.

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I'm certain all the Jailer wants is Azeroth's power. I don't think he wants the Titan herself. Cause it seems like Azeroth's got some shit within her that's way more than just "HURR TITAN HURR". Not like it would matter anyway, since potentially, Ascended Zovaal (Gonna call him that now) would essentially be more powerful than Sargeras already, since he rules the Shadowlands (If 9.1 ends the way we think it will).

Why are you certain he wants Azeroth? He doesn't seem to have actually done anything with the rift after the initial recovery of goods. You're teetering dangerously close to Begging the Question here. We haven't actually seen any efforts by the Jailer to get Azeroth itself or even get there. If anything, he's moving in the opposite direction.

On the other hand, the Sepulcher is a clear goal, since we got from the Primus that Zovaal must be kept away from it. That makes it far more likely to be his actual goal, while Azeroth is merely a step on the way of getting there. A step that is already completed.

[TheFirstOnes]

Why are you certain he wants Azeroth? He doesn't seem to have actually done anything with the rift after the initial recovery of goods. You're teetering dangerously close to Begging the Question here. We haven't actually seen any efforts by the Jailer to get Azeroth itself or even get there. If anything, he's moving in the opposite direction.

On the other hand, the Sepulcher is a clear goal, since we got from the Primus that Zovaal must be kept away from it. That makes it far more likely to be his actual goal, while Azeroth is merely a step on the way of getting there. A step that is already completed.

I mean, he does mention wanting to get Azeroth, though he makes no actual reason or shit as to why. All he says is "Death comes for the soul of your World", and he makes active progress to try and use Azeroth as his gateway into Reality. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean she's the prize the Jailer wants. if anything, he likely only used Azeroth since it was convenient with the Legion, as KJ wanted to invade Azeroth, and wanted Ner'Zhul to be the anchor for said invasion, which was the perfect chance for the Jailer to start his plot into entering Reality.

"That makes it far more likely to be his actual goal, while Azeroth is merely a step on the way of getting there." I mean, it could just be the Sepulcher of Knowledge. Maybe the Primus' sigil is there?

[huth]

I mean, he does mention wanting to get Azeroth, though he makes no actual reason or shit as to why. All he says is "Death comes for the soul of your World", and he makes active progress to try and use Azeroth as his gateway into Reality.

I think you're reading to much into that. I took it as just an elaborate death threat, not a Death threat.


And, er, did you already forget that we return the Primus' sigil to him?

[TheFirstOnes]

I think you're reading to much into that. I took it as just an elaborate death threat, not a Death threat.


And, er, did you already forget that we return the Primus' sigil to him?

We don't know where we get the Primus' Sigil from though, is my point. Not like it matters anyway, since the Jailer (Or, at the very least the Mawsworn) still yeets the Sigil out of him anyway.

"I took it as just an elaborate death threat, not a Death threat." That's probably what it was tbh. Especially considering that Denathrius warned Renethal that "Once the Jailer reclaims what was his (Which is likely him gaining all the Sigils and becoming the 1 "true" Ruler of Death), it'll be by his will alone that ALL is washed away".

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I cannot wait to see Ascended, full Sigil empowered Zovaal at the end of 9.1. Like, finally, a THREAT!

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Haven't had a good threat since 2017.

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I mean, personally, having the Jailer end up being very OP and more powerful than Sargeras would be fucking amazing.

[Cherry123]

stop blaming Tyrande! she kicked Sylvanas and Mawsworn ass and defended Ardenweald! The sigil was stolen later.
Say thanks to crybaby Jaina " I....I must try to save him" Jaina was unable to protect sigil.

[TheFirstOnes]

stop blaming Tyrande! she kicked Sylvanas and Mawsworn ass and defended Ardenweald! The sigil was stolen later.
Say thanks to crybaby Jaina " I....I must try to save him" Jaina was unable to protect sigil.

It's not Jaina's fault either. It's Bolvar's fault, since he apparently tries to fight Anduin but failed.

IT'S LITERALLY ALWAYS BOLVAR THAT KEEPS FUCKING UP!

[Irian]

You miss the first 50 levels or so of vanilla WoW?

Unironically yes. The feeling of exploring a world as a stranger was awesome. If you fight a god every other patch then fighting gods kinda loses its meaning.

Kinda hard to be an Adventurer. Especially since we're going to battle and kill a foe who's likely going to rule over the Shadowlands by the end of 9.1, and attempt to destroy all existence, cosmic powers, etc himself by the end of SL. Like, imagine us battling a foe that makes Sargeras look small, and going back to battling Boars and acting as a simple adventurer the expansion after, with the final boss being a regular ass dragon. It's not happening.

I used to think that way but tbh I realized after a while that Blizzard could asspull any amount of lore to justify doing whatever they wanted. It'd be as simple as going to a foreign continent.

Any illusion that WoW's power progression has any kind of sanity or sense to it is just that.

[rainhard]

I do not think any SL character is close to titan or sargeras level i mean these guys can cut planets in half, maybe zovaal will get this powerful but i really don't think after he ascends, still seems a long way to be close to sargeras.

[TheFirstOnes]

I do not think any SL character is close to titan or sargeras level i mean these guys can cut planets in half, maybe zovaal will get this powerful but i really don't think after he ascends, still seems a long way to be close to sargeras.

Yet he’ll literally rule the Shadowlands...which is the Afterlife and houses infinite realms and whatnot.

Also, destroying worlds is not a feat. Archimonde can do it.

[rainhard]

Yet he’ll literally rule the Shadowlands...which is the Afterlife and houses infinite realms and whatnot.

Also, destroying worlds is not a feat. Archimonde can do it.

The shadowlands do not seem to house any titan level entity so it is not that impressive him rulling all of it and i think cutting planets in half is different from destroying in a general term.

[Houle]

I mean, personally, having the Jailer end up being very OP and more powerful than Sargeras would be fucking amazing.

how so? like, im honestly interested?
why would it be amazing if the out-of-the-blue "it was me all aloooong MUAHAHA" grey man ends up being the bigger villain than the OG big bad sargeras, when he has done nothing to earn that spot besides retcons of older lore.

bc lets be real here, changing the established and well-known origin of the helmet+frostmourne, the dreadlords, and whatever else almost 20 years later is nothing short of a retcon.

to me it would be just another "we can do what metzen did, but ours is BIGGER AND BADDER, arent we amazing writers?!"

[TheFirstOnes]

how so? like, im honestly interested?
why would it be amazing if the out-of-the-blue "it was me all aloooong MUAHAHA" grey man ends up being the bigger villain than the OG big bad sargeras, when he has done nothing to earn that spot besides retcons of older lore.

bc lets be real here, changing the established and well-known origin of the helmet+frostmourne, the dreadlords, and whatever else almost 20 years later is nothing short of a retcon.

to me it would be just another "we can do what metzen did, but ours is BIGGER AND BADDER, arent we amazing writers?!"

I'd say it would be amazing because it would make the Jailer threatening imo. Also, let's be real here, the Jailer is basically WoW's Satan. So him, the essential ultimate Evil, overpowering the OG ultimate Evil is fine, imo. Especially since new lore showcases Sargeras as a raging idiot.

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The shadowlands do not seem to house any titan level entity so it is not that impressive him rulling all of it and i think cutting planets in half is different from destroying in a general term.

Multiple interviews talk about the Eternal Ones being Titan lvl (In power or just rank, it shouldn't matter since the Jailer is just straight up confirmed to be a Titan lvl antagonist (This is them talking about 9.0 Jailer btw), and Brokers and other dudes talk about taking and using Titan artifacts all the time, so who cares? Also, destroying planets, galaxies, and other shit in Reality (Which consists of Infinite Timelines, galaxies, and whatnot) but not being able to destroy Reality itself is, imo, less of a feat than the Jailer ruling the Shadowlands and the Cosmic Power of Death (The Shadowlands being as big, if not bigger, than reality. It's also older than Reality, too. Shit houses infinite afterlives consisting of all souls from reality (Which I already talked about Reality's size, and whatnot), as well as other things).

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I have to say from what I’ve seen of 9.1 this is the first patch where I’ve felt like “ooooh man shit is about to get fuuuuucked!”

The threats in the past have never felt like they were really ramping up like this one.

I've had this "OH FUCK YEAH, THE VILLAIN'S CHADDING OUT" feeling only 4 times. Once during Wrath, with Patch 3.3. Once during Legion with the Broken Shore. Once with Antorus and Argus. And now, with 9.1.

[iamthedevil]

Everyone, I HAVE SPOILERS:

> ||Thank you for playing, valiant champion.
> As Mal'Ganis is defeated, he reveals his plan.
> This was all a distraction!
> While you have been fighting him, the other nathrezim went after the true target: the only master they have ever truly served, Sire Denathrius.||

^ The spoilers

LOTHRAXION INC?!?!

Seeing as how the light works I wouldn't be surprised if Lothraxion is completely mind controlled or brainwashed. Him being lightforged was probably the result of the Natherizim assaulting the light.

[ohwell]

I'm pleasantly surprised they even gave Tyrande a cutscene fight with Sylvanas but entirely unsurprised she loses it. Then again, if she could take Sylvanas there'd be no way she'd qualify as a raid boss, but what can you do.

Depends on who's writing. Malfurion could have mopped the floor with Azshara at one point much less in Cata she confronts him and was saying she was supposed to keep him out of Hyjal.....except you know a good way to do that? Killing him, which she didn't to which I infer she did not have the ability to do so. Then she's magically a raid boss still. We really don't know the extent of the power given to Sylvanas by the Jailer, but we did know the power given to Azshara being that she was transformed into a naga to survive the water which was the deal. Pretty sure, however, that if Tyrande with the overwhelming power she has(Night Fae quests hammer that home) if she can't then we most certainly need a raid and might not.

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exactly, night warrior power hyped up by blizzard and all Tyrande's been able to do with it is kill nathanos... and even then, canonically after we weaken him beforehand.

big whoop

she'll probably not be able to land a hit on sylvanus (danuser will protect his queen), and gets beaten down leading to us dealing with the power and w.e else nonsense blizzard writes for this night warrior joke :/

Canonically he wasn't "weakened". The cinematic has him essentially just fine. He was actually having fun at that.

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Everyone, I HAVE SPOILERS:

> ||Thank you for playing, valiant champion.
> As Mal'Ganis is defeated, he reveals his plan.
> This was all a distraction!
> While you have been fighting him, the other nathrezim went after the true target: the only master they have ever truly served, Sire Denathrius.||

^ The spoilers

LOTHRAXION INC?!?!

That makes it seem like they had nothing to do with the Jailer then. It was like
Sylvanas: They have Sire Denathrius, shall we go help him
Jailer: Hmmm, what? Sorry making a fancy thing for my agenda.... oh really....suuuuuucks man....nope he can rot.

[Syegfryed]

Oh yeah his story ends with him fusing and entering a Wildseed didn't it? Hopeful he won't pop up as a boss somewhere.

what??? fusing and entering the wildseed? what bullshit is that?

and people would saying to the four winds how horde would have vol'jin as loa by their side for now on, what a joke

[TheFirstOnes]

Depends on who's writing. Malfurion could have mopped the floor with Azshara at one point much less in Cata she confronts him and was saying she was supposed to keep him out of Hyjal.....except you know a good way to do that? Killing him, which she didn't to which I infer she did not have the ability to do so. Then she's magically a raid boss still. We really don't know the extent of the power given to Sylvanas by the Jailer, but we did know the power given to Azshara being that she was transformed into a naga to survive the water which was the deal. Pretty sure, however, that if Tyrande with the overwhelming power she has(Night Fae quests hammer that home) if she can't then we most certainly need a raid and might not.

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Canonically he wasn't "weakened". The cinematic has him essentially just fine. He was actually having fun at that.

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That makes it seem like they had nothing to do with the Jailer then. It was like
Sylvanas: They have Sire Denathrius, shall we go help him
Jailer: Hmmm, what? Sorry making a fancy thing for my agenda.... oh really....suuuuuucks man....nope he can rot.

Well, all he said was that Denathrius served his purpose. Besides, Denathrius was hell bent on serving the Jailer earlier. The Dreadlords 100% have something to do with him. Especially since a Dreadqueen sent one of the Fatescribes to "their master", and we learn that the Fatescribe was sent directly to the Jailer, where he forced the Fatescribe to serve.

[ohwell]

Well, all he said was that Denathrius served his purpose. Besides, Denathrius was hell bent on serving the Jailer earlier. The Dreadlords 100% have something to do with him. Especially since a Dreadqueen sent one of the Fatescribes to "their master", and we learn that the Fatescribe was sent directly to the Jailer, where he forced the Fatescribe to serve.

No they don't have anything to do with the Jailer as it stands with what was said. He specifically chose not to rescue him which he CLEARLY had the means to do so. The Nathrezim instead went to do it which means that it was not at the Jailer's bidding which means they aren't subservient to him.