{TV} The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Xilurm]

Hulk isn't even strong enough to take on Thanos 1v1. He wasn't an unbalancing factor and I really don't know where you're getting that idea.

I know, we see as much at the start of the movie, which makes it even more confusing. I'd still like to see him kick some ass against everyone else though.

Also, even though he wasn't strong to take him on 1v1 I bet it would make a massive difference in the fight on Titan. But then Endgame wouldn't exist.

[Zaktar]

I know, we see as much at the start of the movie, which makes it even more confusing. I'd still like to see him kick some ass against everyone else though.

Also, even though he wasn't strong to take him on 1v1 I bet it would make a massive difference in the fight on Titan. But then Endgame wouldn't exist.

It wouldn't have been difficult to write him in and still have Infinity War play out as it did. He's strong, not unstoppable. To me the story they told had more potential but wasn't really capitalized on because they resolved it offscreen. I think it was a case of the writers having big ideas and then realizing they didn't have room for them.

[Zaktar]

And I don’t think they’ll be continuing his story anytime soon. According to the Russo Brothers, Hulk’s arm was permanently damaged after Endgame... something, something, “lose Natasha, Hulk lose arm”.

That seems fair, he brought an uncountably large number of beings back into existence, it seems reasonable that there was a price to pay for that.

[Adamas102]

I don’t anyone was expecting Hulk to take on Thanos 1v1 and win... but it was hella disappointing to see Banner fighting his army in a Ironman hulk suit and not as the Hulk himself.

It was disappointing to not have a few seconds of Hulk fighting a faceless CGI army after already having had two movies where Hulk fought faceless CGI armies? Come on...

Banner taking out Obsidian Cull with a piece of the Hulkbuster armor was probably more fun and inventive than anything Hulk himself would have done. I like my fair share of Hulk-Smash as well, but whining about a single battle where Banner had to make do without Hulk when Hulk himself has had over half a dozen on screen fights already?

If having a bit of variety that's tied to the story ruins the character for you then I don't know what to say.

[Xilurm]

It was disappointing to not have a few seconds of Hulk fighting a faceless CGI army after already having had two movies where Hulk fought faceless CGI armies? Come on...

Banner taking out Obsidian Cull with a piece of the Hulkbuster armor was probably more fun and inventive than anything Hulk himself would have done. I like my fair share of Hulk-Smash as well, but whining about a single battle where Banner had to make do without Hulk when Hulk himself has had over half a dozen on screen fights already?

If having a bit of variety that's tied to the story ruins the character for you then I don't know what to say.

Hulkbuster was also CGI though.

[Svifnymr]

Part of the problem with Hulk, specifically, is that Marvel doesn't wholesale own the rights to the character. That's why we haven't gotten an MCU film for Hulk since the original film with Ed Norton as Banner (which, yes, is part of the MCU). It's why that one film isn't available for streaming on Disney+, when the rest of the MCU is.

Disney and Marvel's hands are kind of tied on the issue.

Yeah, that's what I meant by movie rights, but there's still plenty of ways to have done something with the hulk storyline. Ragnarok had plenty of Hulk story to it, and there's also plenty of ways they could have expanded on him in Endgame. Sure some stuff would have been cut, but I think there was plenty that could have been cut. (Even if the two of us may not agree on which parts to cut, I'd think you could trim plenty to make room.)

I guess they "needed" Hulk for the New Snap, and he needed to be smart & stuff, but then Stark also did it (at a cost, obviously), but they could have developed the backstory of it, rather than just jumping to where they needed to be without detailing the steps to get there.

[Agent Smith]

And I don’t think they’ll be continuing his story anytime soon. According to the Russo Brothers, Hulk’s arm was permanently damaged after Endgame... something, something, “lose Natasha, Hulk lose arm”.

Wakandians can make vibranium prosthetics (as we know). I could see Hulk Banner(as I like to call him now) rock one of those just like Bucky. It would only cost some money in vibranium and technology (according to Fantastic Four #607) Vibranium is priced @ $10,000 USD per gram or $567,000 per ounce.

Say the arm for Hulk Banner is about 200 or so lbs for the size (3,200 ounces) we are only looking at a mere 1.814 Billion dollars in vibranium for 1 arm.

Im not saying its fiscally responsible, im saying it would be COOL

[Endus]

Wakandians can make vibranium prosthetics (as we know). I could see Hulk Banner(as I like to call him now) rock one of those just like Bucky. It would only cost some money in vibranium and technology (according to Fantastic Four #607) Vibranium is priced @ $10,000 USD per gram or $567,000 per ounce.

Say the arm for Hulk Banner is about 200 or so lbs for the size (3,200 ounces) we are only looking at a mere 1.814 Billion dollars in vibranium for 1 arm.

Im not saying its fiscally responsible, im saying it would be COOL

If anything, I'd bet Banner turns back to gamma research to work out a "fix", and that fix (inevitably) goes wrong.

[Zaktar]

Wakandians can make vibranium prosthetics (as we know). I could see Hulk Banner(as I like to call him now) rock one of those just like Bucky. It would only cost some money in vibranium and technology (according to Fantastic Four #607) Vibranium is priced @ $10,000 USD per gram or $567,000 per ounce.

Say the arm for Hulk Banner is about 200 or so lbs for the size (3,200 ounces) we are only looking at a mere 1.814 Billion dollars in vibranium for 1 arm.

Im not saying its fiscally responsible, im saying it would be COOL

Avengers 9: Revenge of the Wakandan Budget Subcommittee

[uuuhname]

eeeh, that ending was ok. overall this felt like a filler show without much in the way of real consequences, and building up future events. there is absolutely no way we've seen even close to the last of Valentina. also not a fan of how Walker basically got a promotion and dashed whatever "arc" he had.

[Egomaniac]

Well, the wound is what made Vision useless. For all we know, 100% Vision could have phased out into the Sun and Thanos would have never found the Stone. Also he would've been able to defend himself. Not saying he would win, but he could have greatly helped the Avengers, who would have been a lot stronger with Vision on their side, instead of having to babysit Vision the whole time.

He would not have made a difference. Vision is powerful because he had one stone. Thanos had 5.

Additionally, having Vision taking that much time to have the Stone split from his skull, is also what made Wanda AFK for most of the Wakanda battle.

The plan was to destroy the stone. They thought that would keep Thanos from assembling the Gauntlet. They didn't think about time travel shenanigans.

- - - Updated - - -

Thor with just stormbreaker fuck thanos up with all the infinite stones.

Thor with stormbreaker, mjolnir, Cap america and others got fucked up by Thanos with not a single infinite stone

Thanos was not prepared when Thor showed up with Stormbreaker. It had less to do with how powerful Thor was and more to do with catching Thanos off guard.

“Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.” - Gandalf (J.R.R. Tolkien)

"No matter how subtle the Wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style" - Vlad Taltos (Steven Brust)

[Triceron]

And by any other name . . . Hydra.

Seriously, let's recall that Hydra basically ran the US government. They failed to seize overt power, after controlling it from the shadows for decades, but it's trivial to connect any "shady government agency" to "yeah, totally Hydra".

Thunderbolts would be much more interesting though. The 'Suicide Squad' version of Avengers, rather than straight up Legion of Doom.

[Endus]

Thunderbolts would be much more interesting though. The 'Suicide Squad' version of Avengers, rather than straight up Legion of Doom.

We've got Monica Rambeau, with powers, now.

If we wanna go that route, let's go with Nextwave. Trying to one-up DC's Suicide Squad to see who can be the edgiest edgelords just doesn't seem like a good fit for the MCU as we know it. Nextwave is at least absurdist about it.

[Egomaniac]

Thunderbolts would be much more interesting though. The 'Suicide Squad' version of Avengers, rather than straight up Legion of Doom.

Thunderbolts would be interesting if they don't make the mistake DC did. One of the biggest problem with the way they introduced the Suicide Squad in the DCEU (aside from the movie being hot garbage) is that we never got to see these villains actually be villains before turning them into anti-heroes. We get a little snippet of backstory from each of them...but we never get to see them actually be bad guys.

A lot of people don't remember this...but the original version of the Thunderbolts was a con. Zemo used the opening created by the FF and the Avengers sacrificing themselves during the Onslaught saga. He took his "Masters of Evil" and gave them all new identities and posed them all as a new group of heroes...so they could get the kind of access that the Avengers and the FF had. Along the way a few of them kind of start actually liking the concept of being superheroes.

So, if they are going to do Thunderbolts...that's what I'd like to see. Not necessarily the exact same path...but show me some villains doing villainous things in other movies and shows before diving straight into reforming them. Make me hate them before trying to make me love them.

[Endus]

Thunderbolts would be interesting if they don't make the mistake DC did. One of the biggest problem with the way they introduced the Suicide Squad in the DCEU (aside from the movie being hot garbage) is that we never got to see these villains actually be villains before turning them into anti-heroes. We get a little snippet of backstory from each of them...but we never get to see them actually be bad guys.

A lot of people don't remember this...but the original version of the Thunderbolts was a con. Zemo used the opening created by the FF and the Avengers sacrificing themselves during the Onslaught saga. He took his "Masters of Evil" and gave them all new identities and posed them all as a new group of heroes...so they could get the kind of access that the Avengers and the FF had. Along the way a few of them kind of start actually liking the concept of being superheroes.

So, if they are going to do Thunderbolts...that's what I'd like to see. Not necessarily the exact same path...but show me some villains doing villainous things in other movies and shows before diving straight into reforming them. Make me hate them before trying to make me love them.

The big problem with that kind of idea is that Marvel has, in the MCU, made a bad habit of killing off villains. Who's left on the slate?

Abomination and the Leader, from the original Hulk film with Norton, but with the same issues as Hulk in terms of movie rights, so unlikely.

Justin Hammer, technically, but he's also kind of a joke.

The (real) Mandarin, but that's Shang Chi's territory.

Some minor antagonists from Guardians films, but bringing cosmic semi-villains in for a Thunderbolts storyline is . . . weird. And they're not really criminals in the first place. The Guardians were. Could also put the Grandmaster from Thor: Ragnarok in here.

Dormammu. Not gonna be a Thunderbolt, guys. Same for Surtur.

Mordo. Not a criminal and not even really a villain, hypothetically. This would be a BIG maybe, and his mission doesn't line up anyway.

The only real candidates are, yes, Zemo, and then pretty much all the Spider-Man villains, though only Vulture and Mysterio really got supervillain careers beyond a name drop and maybe a bit of tech they briefly used. I'm including Mysterio despite his death because if ANYONE faked his death with illusions and isn't named Loki, it's Mysterio.

Loki we could also possibly include despite being apparently real-dead, because timey-wimey TIMECOP shenanigans are coming, though this also questions why he'd ever join a group like that.

I can definitely see Zemo and Vulture working super well together, and Mysterio too if they find him out and he isn't actually really dead. But they need more villains with proper introductions to make a Thunderbolts story work, otherwise it's "Zemo and the Sinister Seven" more than the Thunderbolts.

[Triceron]

Thunderbolts would be interesting if they don't make the mistake DC did.

I meant the comics origin more than the movie :P

[tyrlaan]

The big problem with that kind of idea is that Marvel has, in the MCU, made a bad habit of killing off villains. Who's left on the slate?

Abomination and the Leader, from the original Hulk film with Norton, but with the same issues as Hulk in terms of movie rights, so unlikely.

Justin Hammer, technically, but he's also kind of a joke.

The (real) Mandarin, but that's Shang Chi's territory.

Some minor antagonists from Guardians films, but bringing cosmic semi-villains in for a Thunderbolts storyline is . . . weird. And they're not really criminals in the first place. The Guardians were. Could also put the Grandmaster from Thor: Ragnarok in here.

Dormammu. Not gonna be a Thunderbolt, guys. Same for Surtur.

Mordo. Not a criminal and not even really a villain, hypothetically. This would be a BIG maybe, and his mission doesn't line up anyway.

The only real candidates are, yes, Zemo, and then pretty much all the Spider-Man villains, though only Vulture and Mysterio really got supervillain careers beyond a name drop and maybe a bit of tech they briefly used. I'm including Mysterio despite his death because if ANYONE faked his death with illusions and isn't named Loki, it's Mysterio.

Loki we could also possibly include despite being apparently real-dead, because timey-wimey TIMECOP shenanigans are coming, though this also questions why he'd ever join a group like that.

I can definitely see Zemo and Vulture working super well together, and Mysterio too if they find him out and he isn't actually really dead. But they need more villains with proper introductions to make a Thunderbolts story work, otherwise it's "Zemo and the Sinister Seven" more than the Thunderbolts.

This is why I don't see us getting Thunderbolts anytime soon and why I think we're getting a Dark Avengers/Secret Warriors thing with US Agent etc (probably Yelena Belova) first. You don't have any of the typical players for a Thunderbolts team in the MCU yet. And the one we do have - Zemo - kind of doesn't make sense to be part of a supers team based on his MCU incarnation.

That said - we know Abomination is coming back in She-Hulk. Leader was in the Thunderbolts, right? The "red" team that Ross put together. And it's a damn shame that Hammer is a joke because that performance was amazing.

[Egomaniac]

The big problem with that kind of idea is that Marvel has, in the MCU, made a bad habit of killing off villains. Who's left on the slate?

Abomination and the Leader, from the original Hulk film with Norton, but with the same issues as Hulk in terms of movie rights, so unlikely.

Justin Hammer, technically, but he's also kind of a joke.

The (real) Mandarin, but that's Shang Chi's territory.

Some minor antagonists from Guardians films, but bringing cosmic semi-villains in for a Thunderbolts storyline is . . . weird. And they're not really criminals in the first place. The Guardians were. Could also put the Grandmaster from Thor: Ragnarok in here.

Dormammu. Not gonna be a Thunderbolt, guys. Same for Surtur.

Mordo. Not a criminal and not even really a villain, hypothetically. This would be a BIG maybe, and his mission doesn't line up anyway.

The only real candidates are, yes, Zemo, and then pretty much all the Spider-Man villains, though only Vulture and Mysterio really got supervillain careers beyond a name drop and maybe a bit of tech they briefly used. I'm including Mysterio despite his death because if ANYONE faked his death with illusions and isn't named Loki, it's Mysterio.

Loki we could also possibly include despite being apparently real-dead, because timey-wimey TIMECOP shenanigans are coming, though this also questions why he'd ever join a group like that.

I can definitely see Zemo and Vulture working super well together, and Mysterio too if they find him out and he isn't actually really dead. But they need more villains with proper introductions to make a Thunderbolts story work, otherwise it's "Zemo and the Sinister Seven" more than the Thunderbolts.

Mordo is off killing people that have been touched by magic. Straight up murdering them. Last I heard...murderers were still considered criminals and villains. He's not really any different than Zemo and Karli. He's got a cause that he considers to be noble and is willing to get his hands dirty to accomplish his goals...just like them. So if, hypothetically, he's not a villain...neither are they.

And Mordo's mission and Zemo's aren't entirely dissimilar. Mordo wants to rid the world of magic users...Zemo wants to rid the world of super heroes. So when it comes to people like Dr. Strange and Wanda... and possibly even Thor... they are entirely on the same page. I could see these incarnations of those characters forming a tenuous alliance. "You help me with my problem, I'll help you with yours."

I don't see Vulture working with Zemo to kill Superheroes though...because i don't think Toomes wants that. He'll kill if people get in his way...but he'd rather not. And he had a chance to reveal Peter's identity to Gargan at the end of Homecoming...and choose not to. Now, that could mean he wants to kill Peter himself...but it could also be Toomes trying to protect him. Mysterio could possibly be motivated by revenge against Peter...but he'd need more than that.

I'm just saying what I would like to see in a Thunderbolts movie/series. I'm not pushing for that to be the next big thing for Marvel to do. They've got enough on their plate for the next few years. Aside from FF and X-Men...the next team I'd like to see would be a more comics-based version of the Defenders. Not the Netflix version...but the original Dr. Strange led team. Make a team designed specifically to combat the Supernatural threats. Get people like Wanda and Valkyrie in there. Maybe get some Ghost Rider and even Blade.

[Syegfryed]

Why not?

He tried to use the Infinity Stones. They have enough power to literally unmake and remake the entire universe. But burning Hulk's arm and hampering his regeneration is a step too far?

Come on.

yes, it is a step too far, specially when thanos used twice to get a fucked up arm.

It is hulk, the best healing factor in the universe marvel, sure, let him have a crisp army for a bit, but later, especially in Tony funeral, it should be healed already. Hulk was done rly dirty in the Mcu and is nothing like his movie with norton.

[Egomaniac]

You don't have any of the typical players for a Thunderbolts team in the MCU yet. And the one we do have - Zemo - kind of doesn't make sense to be part of a supers team based on his MCU incarnation.

I could see Zemo leading a Thunderbolts team that is kind of designed to keep the other Superheroes in check. Kind of like a Government Watchdog. I'm not sure how they make that concept play as it's own thing though.