So i got a response from J Allen Brack (which I wasn't expecting)

[Lolites]

you questioned me about another persons claim. think about that for a second please. maybe you'll realize where you goofed.

i did not "goof", you did...
dude claimed something, i asked for source, YOU provided incorrect source... thats your "goof" not mine, then i said thats not source asked for and you admitted you dont even know what you tried to prove with that source... so another "goof" right there...

all i did was asked for source, and after receiving INCORRECT source pointing that out...

[Hugnomo]

I will never understand this mentality. Why shouldn't a game be what its players want it to be? Or at least aspire to that ideal, given the realities of development?

Because players are not game developers. They know what they like or don't like, doesn't mean they have the experience/knowledge/skills to design a game that delivers that positive experience. Doesn't mean their self-indulgent requests aren't too specific to appeal to the majority and maintain the health of the game. People demand for things that are detrimental to the overall experience all the time.

[aceperson]

i did not "goof", you did...
dude claimed something, i asked for source, YOU provided incorrect source... thats your "goof" not mine, then i said thats not source asked for and you admitted you dont even know what you tried to prove with that source... so another "goof" right there...

all i did was asked for source, and after receiving INCORRECT source pointing that out...

i didn't provide a source at all... in fact, i actually backed you up because it means the guys 13 million claim was BS. so why are you trying to defeat me when doing so defeats your own argument?

[Lolites]

we do know from a superdata article (https://tagn.wordpress.com/2021/02/2...al-in-january/ this has the link in it but it's possible website is down for maintenance and this article has pictures) that shadowlands lost 40% of it's users in the 2 months following SL release. so at least we can tell that shadowlands isn't up. doesn't mean the numbers are down, we know it isn't in the positive.

extrapolated data from third party... sure we "know"...
but ill humor your source, if you actualy read it whole you will find out "World of Warcraft player numbers fell back to normal levels as the excitement around November’s Shadowlands expansion subsided" so no, SL is not down, but rather at pre-expansion number... thank for proof SL in fact DIDNT loose huge number of players (at least in long term, so the MAUs lost by blizz is immaterial)...

- - - Updated - - -

i didn't provide a source at all... in fact, i actually backed you up because it means the guys 13 million claim was BS. so why are you trying to defeat me when doing so defeats your own argument?

then, as was pointed out about your email, you seriously need to learn how to communicate, bcs you are terrible at it...
it seemed you backing the guys bullshit with incorrect source...

so to summ it up before i leave this pointless conversation:
1. you need to learn to communicate properly
2. you need to learn how to work with data/information
Both would be needed for any (even low) managerial position which you claim to have, so...

[shoc]

wow this is so all sad

Officially MMO-Champ lowest of the low. After 7 years on this site this is officially the worst thread ever made.

how do I delete someone elses' post?

[Lolites]

wow this is so all sad

Officially MMO-Champ lowest of the low. After 7 years on this site this is officially the worst thread ever made.

how do I delete someone elses' post?

i think at best you can "unsub" from thread and ignore OP, but thats it

[bloodykiller86]

that's perfectly fine. brack is the president and i'm not. i simply did what i could as a consumer to express my dissatisfaction. whether brack listens or not is on him. the thing i'm concerned about is how he brushed off all feedback, not just mine.

your feedback wasnt feedback, it was just sh** talking and thats why it didnt even deserve a reply. the fact that you even got one is crazy enough as is.

[jellmoo]

that's perfectly fine. brack is the president and i'm not. i simply did what i could as a consumer to express my dissatisfaction. whether brack listens or not is on him. the thing i'm concerned about is how he brushed off all feedback, not just mine.

Because anecdotal feedback doesn't offer him anything to work with. A large, publicly traded company absolutely cannot base their decisions on the whims of some consumers, no matter how vocal they are, and even if they are influencers. They base their decisions around metrics. Hard facts that are easily measured and analyzed.

Some random dude emailing him saying he doesn't like the direction of the game is meaningless when he can look at the sales, subscriptions, MAUs and overall profits. When those stats all line up to happy shareholders, the opinions of some random dude on the internet aren't going to matter too much to him.

He's brushing off the feedback because he can. Because he has the data to back up the direction the game is going in.

[Tyris Flare]

The part that looks worst for them is that JAB even took time to respond.

The second bad part is that you have 700+ unread email notifications

[Feeline10]

--- snip ---

If this is real I am so terribly embarrassed for you and have douchechills beyond imagine. It goes way past cringe.

Mod Edit: Don't quote a giant post just to leave a one-line reply.

[Morssoe]

Because anecdotal feedback doesn't offer him anything to work with. A large, publicly traded company absolutely cannot base their decisions on the whims of some consumers, no matter how vocal they are, and even if they are influencers. They base their decisions around metrics. Hard facts that are easily measured and analyzed.

Some random dude emailing him saying he doesn't like the direction of the game is meaningless when he can look at the sales, subscriptions, MAUs and overall profits. When those stats all line up to happy shareholders, the opinions of some random dude on the internet aren't going to matter too much to him.

He's brushing off the feedback because he can. Because he has the data to back up the direction the game is going in.

They don't want to take risk at giving content that follows the spirit of gaming, they do content that milks most of the money from players that stick to wow no matter what quality it is. That is the easy way.

What I want them to do is have a little confidence in their skills on making content that is actually quality and that way bring more players which means more money. They are just too scared to follow that path.

[CataclismicSunrise]

The part that looks worst for them is that JAB even took time to respond.

Yeah, that kind of tells me that JAB gets far less e-mails than OP thinks he does and JAB felt the need to reply out of fear of continued spam from this lunatic on the internet.

[draugril]

Because players are not game developers. They know what they like or don't like, doesn't mean they have the experience/knowledge/skills to design a game that delivers that positive experience. Doesn't mean their self-indulgent requests aren't too specific to appeal to the majority and maintain the health of the game. People demand for things that are detrimental to the overall experience all the time.

There's a huge difference between disregarding the minutiae of overly-specific, unreasonable requests and designing your game with an overall philosophy that clashes with that of your playerbase. The former is understandable. The latter, though? The game that is being designed, in general, is so divorced from what much of the playerbase would like to see. The hyperfocus on that endgame loot treadmill to the detriment - or outright negation - of all else is damaging.

- - - Updated - - -

Because players, for the most part, make for terrible game designers.

Again, there's a huge difference between disregarding asinine, specific requests and completely ignoring the desires of the much of the playerbase wholesale.

[Lolites]

The game that being designed, in general, is so divorced from what much of the playerbase would like to see.

and if it was designed according to them it might be in conflict with what rest of playerbase wants...
playerbase in count of milions is not unanimous, tbh there is probably not a single topic you would get majority of wow playerbase to actualy agree on...

- - - Updated - - -

completely ignoring the desires of the much of the playerbase wholesale.

theres also no knowing what "much of playerbase" wants, as forums are visited by minority of people... some of them not even players anymore...
and ignoring parts of playerbase with every decision is inevitable, as some parts of playerbase are mutualy exclusive or even polar opposites...

[draugril]

some of them not even players anymore...

That's the crux.

Over the years, WoW became a game that was different from what the vast majority of the playerbase expected from their MMO. So they stopped playing, as that is the most logical thing to do (coming to fan forums to complain and plead is outlier behaviour, by far). To react to this trend, what do you do? Do you attempt to recapture those lost subscribers, many of whom will never return because of changes in their own lives? Or do you design a game that you hope attracts new players, and risk further alienating the current playerbase?

There is no good answer here.

[jellmoo]

They don't want to take risk at giving content that follows the spirit of gaming, they do content that milks most of the money from players that stick to wow no matter what quality it is. That is the easy way.

What I want them to do is have a little confidence in their skills on making content that is actually quality and that way bring more players which means more money. They are just too scared to follow that path.

Again though, that's anecdotal. It's an opinion. When they can measure the health of the game (more importantly, they can measure the profitability of the game) and see that it's doing well, they aren't particularly inclined to change their way of doing things.

[Peacemoon]

Up until this point I was on board with you, but then you did something worse. Yes, what OP did, is not really nice, but tolerable. What OP did was using the employees work results (Ion, designing the game) and show it to his boss (brack) and complaining about it from his POV (customer). In the work world this is totally acceptable, if an employee is doing something wrong (or perceived as doing wrong) it's fine to speak to his/her manager. If the employee is doing nothing wrong then there won't be any repercussions anyway. If you do bad work, you should take the responsibility for it, plain and simple.

However, what you propose is using the employees actions in his FREE TIME (OP e-mailing some CEO) against himself to get him demoted, this is not okay. What OP does in his free time is none of his/her boss business. You should be held accountable for the things you do at work, not for the things you do outside of work, unless you break the law (complaining about a product isn't breaking the law). OP is currently not working when he is e-mailing some other company about their products. On top of that, OP is not complaining to this boss about Ion as a person, he is complaining about his work whereas your call to his/her boss would be about OP's person and NOT his work. I hope you see the difference and the wrong doing of your way of thinking. OP is a customer with harsh feedback and criticism, you would be a random stalker trying to get him demoted.

Take this however you want, this just had to be said that you are acting worse right now.

Firstly I am being facetious and not actually expecting the OP to leave his boss’ email in this thread for us to contact them.

However you are seriously naive if you think what you do outside of work should not effect your job and role. Anything you do outside of work that is distasteful and immoral and/or causes a social media storm can land you get demoted or fired. Welcome to 2021, don’t let internet anonymity make you act stupid. Especially if you want to email companies to get specifically named individuals fired/demoted yourself.

[draugril]

and ignoring parts of playerbase with every decision is inevitable, as some parts of playerbase are mutualy exclusive or even polar opposites...

Hard disagree. While this does apply to a few very niche situations, you can indeed design a game that caters to a multitude of different playstyles. Most other currently successful MMOs found that success by doing just this. WoW does the loot treadmill and escalating power and encounter design better than anyone else in the business, but that isn't the sole potential of the genre. Once other developers figured that out and stopped trying to beat WoW at their own game, they've been able to find their own success.

But most of the WoW playerbase cannot conceive of a game that doesn't 100% revolve around that loot treadmill because the past decade or so has been entirely focused on it - and the absolute strangehold WoW has had on the genre for the past two decades - so I can't hold that against them.

[Utrrabbit]

If you actually did that. You made yourself look like a fool.

You really have no clue how game design goes do you. Like most keyboard warriors; you have no clue. Also wows numbers are up by 50% from this time last year.

So your email campaign is just stupid.

[Lolites]

That's the crux.

Over the years, WoW became a game that was different from what the vast majority of the playerbase expected from their MMO. So they stopped playing, as that is the most logical thing to do (coming to fan forums to complain and plead is outlier behaviour, by far). To react to this trend, what do you do? Do you attempt to recapture those lost subscribers, many of whom will never return because of changes in their own lives? Or do you design a game that you hope attracts new players, and risk further alienating the current playerbase?

There is no good answer here.

honestly, i dont think majority of players that left did so bcs the game changed to something they dont really like, i would say most likely its burnout, hell the game is almost 17, i started in 2005 when i was 13 and im almost 30 for me its transition from elementary school through college to working life, so even though i still love the game i play WAY less than before, and even had some periods where i unsubed, not due to game being bad, but i didnt have time or didnt want to play at all...

- - - Updated - - -

Hard disagree. While this does apply to a few very niche situations, you can indeed design a game that caters to a multitude of different playstyles. Most other currently successful MMOs found that success by doing just this.

i mean, simple example, tehre are people claiming "casual" part of game is too hard and people that claim its too easy, how do you design for both of them?
or people who think M+ rewards should be lower/higher or have no gear reward at all?
how about people who want pvp to reward useful gear and people who want pvp to be "pvp only" gear?
people who think covenants should be less about power and people who think locking power behind covenant is right way?

those are not "niche" situations, thats people having completely oposite opinion about important even potentionaly gamebreaking issues... and you do not have choice to design according to all of them, you have to make a choice and ignore part of them...