9.1 seems to be addressing the casual gearing concerns

[rhorle]

The covenant gear situation that casuals ran in to in 9.0 was like if mythic raids suddenly stopped awarding any gear and your gear progression ended after your first couple of resets of heroic. Nothing to work towards, nothing to make your power grow for months. Then in 9.1 you learn that mythic raids will drop gear again. Would you return? Could you trust the developers to not pull the same stunt again?

Are you ignoring that is how end game content has worked since the start? You get the item you want and then you have no more upgrades. But people still raided weekly. The difference between progression and farm content. Giving one group of players access to higher gear doesn't solve the problem you say exists.

Every patch has a set reward structure and you know what to expect.

[SoulSoBreezy]

Happy to see a thread talking about a VERY little known thing on the PTR; I'm puzzled why no one else has covered it.

[Crimson Spears]

Happy to see a thread talking about a VERY little known thing on the PTR; I'm puzzled why no one else has covered it.

Why bother to be honest? Whatever gear is free is the minimum gear pugs will require to progress. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day. The entire game is moving over to raider io. The game could give out 226 ilv gear and no one is going to group with those players.

Its bandaid to keep the hamster wheel going.

[Glorious Leader]

they arent going to give alternatives to raid gear from world content. last time they did that (benthic armor) people threw a fit.

Your raid or do m+ or pvp. you get a vault every week as well. thats what you do to get geared. thats it.

No not "everyone" threw a fit. Try hard cucks did

[FelPlague]

Soulsobreezy have made videos about it. I didn't want to link to those because I wasn't sure if it was allowed

yeah its fine if you link videos as long as its on actual topic and you arnt just self promoing, and hes got his own accoutn here so...

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Happy to see a thread talking about a VERY little known thing on the PTR; I'm puzzled why no one else has covered it.

oh hey speak of the devil sup ya old coot?

[SoulSoBreezy]

Why bother to be honest? Whatever gear is free is the minimum gear pugs will require to progress. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day. The entire game is moving over to raider io. The game could give out 226 ilv gear and no one is going to group with those players.

Its bandaid to keep the hamster wheel going.

Maw touched gear is for an audience that clearly isn't you. The more casual folks railed hard over 9.0 because the feeling of progression ground to an almost immediate halt at around the 200 range. Yes there's greater content out there in organized group stuff but again, that's not the audience we're referring to.
The previous two expansions had WF/TF, a consolation prize for people that just did world content and could enjoy some super strong gear. How you feel about them doesn't matter because you'd never group with them because they don't do group stuff.
SL 9.0 has nothing. Hence bad feelings.
9.1 has a timegated slow progression system in maw touched gear that'll get people close to heroic raid item level, and it's woefully inefficient to go this route if your intention is pvp/raiding/m+. It's not for you.
So why bother? Because your audience isn't the only one that matters.

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oh hey speak of the devil sup ya old coot?

Chillin, avoiding infractions.
I'm about to talk mad smack about Torghast so hey, another fine day =)

[Crimson Spears]

Maw touched gear is for an audience that clearly isn't you. The more casual folks railed hard over 9.0 because the feeling of progression ground to an almost immediate halt at around the 200 range. Yes there's greater content out there in organized group stuff but again, that's not the audience we're referring to.
The previous two expansions had WF/TF, a consolation prize for people that just did world content and could enjoy some super strong gear. How you feel about them doesn't matter because you'd never group with them because they don't do group stuff.
SL 9.0 has nothing. Hence bad feelings.
9.1 has a timegated slow progression system in maw touched gear that'll get people close to heroic raid item level, and it's woefully inefficient to go this route if your intention is pvp/raiding/m+. It's not for you.
So why bother? Because your audience isn't the only one that matters.

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Chillin, avoiding infractions.
I'm about to talk mad smack about Torghast so hey, another fine day =)

That group won't be happy with it just like how they were never happy with WF/TF they don't really want groups they want to get into THE GROUPS that breeze through dungeons.

They assume that ilv is the defining matter in that but mark my words they will be here complaining that no one wants them in their groups and that they need mythic ilv in 2-3 weeks of patch.

This crowd never really wanted gear. They wanted access and so long as people don't want to burn a key in the first minute and a half of run they will forever be denied that.

[FelPlague]

Maw touched gear is for an audience that clearly isn't you. The more casual folks railed hard over 9.0 because the feeling of progression ground to an almost immediate halt at around the 200 range. Yes there's greater content out there in organized group stuff but again, that's not the audience we're referring to.
The previous two expansions had WF/TF, a consolation prize for people that just did world content and could enjoy some super strong gear. How you feel about them doesn't matter because you'd never group with them because they don't do group stuff.
SL 9.0 has nothing. Hence bad feelings.
9.1 has a timegated slow progression system in maw touched gear that'll get people close to heroic raid item level, and it's woefully inefficient to go this route if your intention is pvp/raiding/m+. It's not for you.
So why bother? Because your audience isn't the only one that matters.

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Chillin, avoiding infractions.
I'm about to talk mad smack about Torghast so hey, another fine day =)

Dude if you wanna talk about torghast and the maw, remember to bring up that blizzard literally shot themselves in the foot by giving the players what they wanted.
The only purpose of the maw was to farm keys to enter torghast, but after we the players said "No i dont like that!" they completely removed the keys, meaning that the maw now had literally no point to go there, leading to them having to rush out another use for the maw, and also a way to make torghast actually balanced, as adding gear to it, would be difficult since you could now farm it infinity instead of based on how many keys you got.

or dont, up to you mate.

[Crimson Spears]

Dude if you wanna talk about torghast and the maw, remember to bring up that blizzard literally shot themselves in the foot by giving the players what they wanted.
The only purpose of the maw was to farm keys to enter torghast, but after we the players said "No i dont like that!" they completely removed the keys, meaning that the maw now had literally no point to go there, leading to them having to rush out another use for the maw, and also a way to make torghast actually balanced, as adding gear to it, would be difficult since you could now farm it infinity instead of based on how many keys you got.

or dont, up to you mate.

The maw would of been worse not better with rng drops...

[Echocho]

I wasnt advocating against this system, its a good system thats gonna give casuals constant progression and a clear goal close to heroic raiding ilvl, i was pointing out how stupid was the other poster argument saying that skilled players are the ones that need gear the less in the game, which basically boils down to "if you mythic raid, you are good, you dont need gear" which is plain wrong and shows how missinformed he is.

Oh I know. I was adding to your comment, not arguing against it

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That group won't be happy with it just like how they were never happy with WF/TF they don't really want groups they want to get into THE GROUPS that breeze through dungeons.

They assume that ilv is the defining matter in that but mark my words they will be here complaining that no one wants them in their groups and that they need mythic ilv in 2-3 weeks of patch.

This crowd never really wanted gear. They wanted access and so long as people don't want to burn a key in the first minute and a half of run they will forever be denied that.

Access to content they have no interest in doing? That's a first.
We're talking about people who's interest in group activities start and end with LFG and LFR. They wouldn't go through the hassle of doing a premade dungeon or raid even if it gave them a guaranteed piece of iLvl 1000 gear, they're simply not interested.

[arkanon]

The maw would of been worse not better with rng drops...

The maw with drops would just be terribly boring content players feel compelled to farm. Im not saying FORCED, but rather compelled.

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Access to content they have no interest in doing? That's a first.
We're talking about people who's interest in group activities start and end with LFG and LFR. They wouldn't go through the hassle of doing a premade dungeon or raid even if it gave them a guaranteed piece of iLvl 1000 gear, they're simply not interested.

Great! so we have established that the ilvl of the gear is not important. Fantastic. So now you can answer this: If the covenant gear was exactly the same, but "casual" players were only just now starting to complete their set as it was a far slower process, would you still have an issue?

[SoulSoBreezy]

That group won't be happy with it just like how they were never happy with WF/TF they don't really want groups they want to get into THE GROUPS that breeze through dungeons.

They assume that ilv is the defining matter in that but mark my words they will be here complaining that no one wants them in their groups and that they need mythic ilv in 2-3 weeks of patch.

This crowd never really wanted gear. They wanted access and so long as people don't want to burn a key in the first minute and a half of run they will forever be denied that.

I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

[Crimson Spears]

I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

The net result of the system your surprised everyone is ignoring. It isn't getting any attention because barring a new time gate for late comers to the expansion or alts its going to be utterly ignored.

[arkanon]

I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

@Crimson Spears may want to correct me here, so please do if im wrong, but I read it as they constantly want what they feel they cant have - they constantly fall for the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" logic. They ask for A, but when given A, they say "well now I want B.

Some are convinced the only reason they are not multi glad mythic raid legends (hyperbole, obviously) is because they just cant get any groups, because the community keeps "blocking" them from progressing. But if they just had some better gear, they would be stomping everyone in bgs.

The truth is, as CS mentioned, the bar will constantly be raised above the head of those not willing to participate in the content in the first place, and that is not unreasonable at all. An example being Benthic gear - I know many groups would intentionally filter out players with no Rio and no achievements or whatever, because simply looking at ilvl was no longer reliable.

[Echocho]

Great! so we have established that the ilvl of the gear is not important. Fantastic. So now you can answer this: If the covenant gear was exactly the same, but "casual" players were only just now starting to complete their set as it was a far slower process, would you still have an issue?

Not at all. You need something to work towards long term gear wise, the quality of the gear isn't as important as long as it's significantly better than what you can get in a handful of weeks, and by significantly I mean a power jump that's big enough to warrant the effort of a months long progression.

[Crimson Spears]

Not at all. You need something to work towards long term gear wise, the quality of the gear isn't as important as long as its significantly better than what you can get in a handful of weeks, and by significantly I mean a power jump that's big enough to warrant the effort of a months long progression.

To what possible end? @arkanon Understood my meaning. I don't believe anyone but an extreme minority is actually staying subscribed to the game increase their numbers slowly through grindy trickled in rewards much less rewards from mind numbing toothless content. There isn't any substance to that.

[arkanon]

Not at all. You need something to work towards long term gear wise, the quality of the gear isn't as important as long as it's significantly better than what you can get in a handful of weeks, and by significantly I mean a power jump that's big enough to warrant the effort of a months long progression.

I'm confused - you say "no", and then explain exactly the same system I suggested? Why would the covenant gear not be ok if it took a few months of play to unlock? Slow, gradual progression towards powerful gear....

[Echocho]

I'm confused - you say "no", and then explain exactly the same system I suggested? Why would the covenant gear not be ok if it took a few months of play to unlock? Slow, gradual progression towards powerful gear....

You asked "would you still have an issue?", I answered "not at all". What's confusing about that?

No I do not have any issues with that.

[Shaetha]

This is why most people play the game so your talking about almost every player then here.

That changes literally nothing about my opinion. Playing the game to get gear is like working for the work instead of the pay.

[Crimson Spears]

That changes literally nothing about my opinion. Playing the game to get gear is like working for the work instead of the pay.

I think that is the slow poison killing wow myself. Developers are now designing content around rewards then making rewards for content. Everything is now how much can X give you and how long can we make them do X.

Rather then focusing on making an excellent game they are more enthralled with making a game that supports a dozen different power systems to apparently no end.