Do you think Garrosh would have actually burned down Teldrassil?

[alt-ithist]

In short: nothing of this example illustrates that Garrosh kills for killing's sake. He has reasons, unlike Sylvanas who kills because more souls to the maw.

I mean yeah they're "bad" reasons, but they are certainly reasons and entirely realistic and in line with his established character.

So Sylvanas killing to send souls to the maw to make herself and the jailer stronger so they can in act their schemes isn’t a reason. But Garrosh rationalizing reasons in his mind that he knows isn’t true but use them in a hypocrite way to make himself feel better is a reason to kill?

Garrosh was killing people to soothe his feelings, windrunner was doing it to strengthen herself. Both horrible evil acts, only one of them was doing it for no tangible reason other then to kill.

[AcidicSyn]

Well I think it would definitely be harder to sneak a manabomb to the island

I mean...are the portals still up? Fool me once fool me twice and all that lol I wonder what the "official" stance on Horde in Dalaran is these days.

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Garrosh is nicer than Orgrim Doomhammer but I'm sure that he would burn the tree if it fits his plans. If it was a potential asset for the horde he would keep it. But if it's a potential threat, he would burn it.
And it's more likely a threat with godilke Malfurion.

Thing is though, if its just a swap (Garrosh in Sylvs place) then Malfurion dies in Darkshore. Would he still feel the need to nuke or burn the tree with malfurion dead? I think Garrosh would prefer to enslave the civilians and harvest them and their lands if at all possible.

Some folks in this thread keep hinging their arguments (not the guy I just quoted- separate thought here) on "Garrosh would have no issue nuking the tree!" but, is anyone saying he would? I don't think so. Most that are arguing he wouldn't nuke the tree seem to be saying that Garrosh would just prefer to handle it otherwise for maximum gain; I don't see anyone pretending that he'd have any issues with killing elves lol

[loras]

So Sylvanas killing to send souls to the maw to make herself and the jailer stronger so they can in act their schemes isn’t a reason. But Garrosh rationalizing reasons in his mind that he knows isn’t true but use them in a hypocrite way to make himself feel better is a reason to kill?

Garrosh was killing people to soothe his feelings, windrunner was doing it to strengthen herself. Both horrible evil acts, only one of them was doing it for no tangible reason other then to kill.

Yes?
Sylvanas is literally a 1 dimensional tool for the jailer, Garrosh acts for himself and his own reasons.
It's not a judgement of value, it would just result in different behaviour, i.e. Garrosh not necessarily always killing people, whereas Sylvanas' goal is literally just killing people.

I mean it's really not hard to understand:
- Sylvanas' goal and means to power is killing people, thus she will go with the options that kill more people.
- Garrosh's goal is to benefit Garrosh and his Horde, which means he will kill when that benefits him, and will not when it does not.

Teldrassil was a complex situation, and burning it had little enough value to Garrosh so i do not think he would gave done so, as he could have gained more from besieging and holding hostage, conquering, harvesting and likely other options as well.

To Sylvanas there was a clear goal in burning Teldrassil, as killing people was her goal.

[Thage]

No, he would have mana-bombed it after having the goblins stripmine it of every valuable resource and, to his credit, would have given the Alliance time to evacuate the civilians first.

[Ardenaso]

Would Garrosh burn down Teldrassil? No he would send in harvesters to take the wood
Would Garrosh slaughter defenseless civilians? Yes just as how he did with Theramore civilians and Darkspear citizens

[TheFirstOnes]

MoP ending Garrosh probably. They made him pure evil.

Cata Garrosh, no. He hated civilian deaths.

Well, that wasn't really the question. MoP-WoD Garrosh still wouldn't burn down Teldrassil.

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Wrong. 10000000% wrong.

He had planned to mana bomb it with zero warning, but Baine betrayed him and gave the alliance warning ,allowing them to evacuate.

Also garrosh literally had all the civilian ships captured. Tortured, killed, and enslaved all the civilians.

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He was planning to nuke them but Baine betrayed him.

Doesn't mean he'd burn Teldrassil. Just means he's destroy the Alliance's civilizations by any means necessary. Teldrassil is far too valuable a resource to let slip away. Hell, Garrosh would probably have Sylvanas by the throat had he seen her burn Teldrassil.

[starstationprofm]

Well, that wasn't really the question. MoP-WoD Garrosh still wouldn't burn down Teldrassil.

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Doesn't mean he'd burn Teldrassil. Just means he's destroy the Alliance's civilizations by any means necessary. Teldrassil is far too valuable a resource to let slip away. Hell, Garrosh would probably have Sylvanas by the throat had he seen her burn Teldrassil.

Why is Teldrassil valuable? Because it's made of wood? Houses are bombed during wars all the time. Killing enemies is more important than a tree.

MoP Garrosh had no problem murdering and torturing civilians.

[Skytotem]

Depends on the Writer. TBC? Never.

Wotlk? Probably not, but possible.

Cata? Probably.

MoP. He varied from patch to patch there.

WoD: Yeah.

[TheFirstOnes]

Why is Teldrassil valuable? Because it's made of wood? Houses are bombed during wars all the time. Killing enemies is more important than a tree.

MoP Garrosh had no problem murdering and torturing civilians.

The wood would 100% be valuable, the hell? Yes, murders happen all the time in War, especially with MoP/WoD Garrosh. Here's the difference: Garrosh conquers, Sylvanas doesn't.

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Depends on the Writer. TBC? Never.

Wotlk? Probably not, but possible.

Cata? Probably.

MoP. He varied from patch to patch there.

WoD: Yeah.

Except he wouldn't burn Teldrassil at all whatsoever?

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Garrosh is nicer than Orgrim Doomhammer but I'm sure that he would burn the tree if it fits his plans. If it was a potential asset for the horde he would keep it. But if it's a potential threat, he would burn it.
And it's more likely a threat with godilke Malfurion.

If it were a threat, burning it would be a last resort. Mf would try to nuke Darnassus and attempt to capture Tyrande and Malfurion before straight up burning the tree.

[Shibito]

uh, garrosh nuked theramore...
like, i understand that the fanbase isn't willing to give sylvanas an ounce of the "he's complicated" and "he's damaged" and "i see myself in him" that they give to arthas and garrosh, which they give endlessly and it's such thinly masked "i hate women," but come on. even the hardest arthas and garrosh did nothing wrong crowd should be able to see the logical progression of what garrosh wouldve done with azerite. garrosh absolutely didn't care about civilians-need i remind you of how quick he was to murder anduin?

garrosh gets azerite and sails to teldrassil, not land walks to it, and nukes it before anyone gets evacuated. then goes right for stormwind, because unlike sylvanas, he actually just fights wars to kill opposition on his material plane. i love garrosh, but there's no doubt in my mind he would've tactical nuked teldrassil then gone for stormwind. in fact, alliance wouldn't have had a chance in the blood war if garrosh was warchief during it. sylvanas was never trying to win, but garrosh would've.

edit: and before the "garrosh wouldn't have started the blood war" crowd walks in, yes, he would've. mass weaponry and a chance to eradicate what he perceives as the threat to his continued existence? he not only starts the blood war, he finishes it. like i absolutely love and adore garrosh, but i don't love him because he's morally upstanding. garrosh even in his best moments believed in fighting as key to a healthy orc lifestyle.

Ah the endless bullshit from woke drones thinking everything is I HATE WOMYNS

Infracted.

[starstationprofm]

The wood would 100% be valuable, the hell? Yes, murders happen all the time in War, especially with MoP/WoD Garrosh. Here's the difference: Garrosh conquers, Sylvanas doesn't.

But Kalimdor has a lot of wood already.

I don t think Garrosh would risk fighting an army when he could just nuke the tree.

[alt-ithist]

Yes?
Sylvanas is literally a 1 dimensional tool for the jailer, Garrosh acts for himself and his own reasons.
It's not a judgement of value, it would just result in different behaviour, i.e. Garrosh not necessarily always killing people, whereas Sylvanas' goal is literally just killing people.

I mean it's really not hard to understand:
- Sylvanas' goal and means to power is killing people, thus she will go with the options that kill more people.
- Garrosh's goal is to benefit Garrosh and his Horde, which means he will kill when that benefits him, and will not when it does not.

Teldrassil was a complex situation, and burning it had little enough value to Garrosh so i do not think he would gave done so, as he could have gained more from besieging and holding hostage, conquering, harvesting and likely other options as well.

To Sylvanas there was a clear goal in burning Teldrassil, as killing people was her goal.

Garrosh goal was to drive every single alliance off Kalimdor and make it the horde bastion so yes, he would completely be ok with killing every single night elf in that tree by nuking them, the rest he would take back to ogrimmar to torture and use as practice dummy. There was no need for Garrosh to capture the civilians of Theramore to torture and kill them but he did. They weren’t randsomed and had no valuable information.Yet you say Garrosh is not in the habit of killing for no reason..

[Ryonas]

He murdered the innocent people of Theramore in cold blood. Why would he have a problem murdering the innocent people of Teldrassil?

[TheFirstOnes]

Garrosh goal was to drive every single alliance off Kalimdor and make it the horde bastion so yes, he would completely be ok with killing every single night elf in that tree by nuking them, the rest he would take back to ogrimmar to torture and use as practice dummy. There was no need for Garrosh to capture the civilians of Theramore to torture and kill them but he did. They weren’t randsomed and had no valuable information.Yet you say Garrosh is not in the habit of killing for no reason..

He kills, but not for no reason. His reasoning is "For the True/Iron Horde. Fuck the Alliance, and fuck the lesser Azerothian races that hold the Horde back!"

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He murdered the innocent people of Theramore in cold blood. Why would he have a problem murdering the innocent people of Teldrassil?

That's not what OP's question was. Why is everyone being confused here?

[alt-ithist]

He kills, but not for no reason. His reasoning is "For the True/Iron Horde. Fuck the Alliance, and fuck the lesser Azerothian races that hold the Horde back!"
?

Killing civilian does nothing towards that unless the true/iron horde only purpose was to kill. Sylvanas kill to make herself stronger so she isn’t bound by fate yet you don’t consider that a reason. Her reasons are evil as are Garrosh’s. You could argue that Garrosh reasons aren’t as selfish but he wants kill all others to take everything for himself and his people. Real world scenario, the top 1% control 70% of the worlds wealth and continue to make policies with the goal to control even higher percentage, that would be considered selfish.

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That's not what OP's question was. Why is everyone being confused here?

OP question was “would Garrosh burn down Teldrasil with all the civilians in it”

You’re given example of Garrosh nuking a city so burning one down wouldn’t be out of character, you’re shown he doesn’t care about civilian life when he captured theramore civilians so there would be no moral issue with him killing the civilians in the city, also theramore civilians getting killed for entertainment in ogrimmar shows he doesn’t mind killing for fun yet you argue he wouldn’t kill for no reasons as if killing for entertainment is a reason to kill.

[mickybrighteyes]

OP question was “would Garrosh burn down Teldrasil with all the civilians in it”

You’re given example of Garrosh nuking a city so burning one down wouldn’t be out of character, you’re shown he doesn’t care about civilian life when he captured theramore civilians so there would be no moral issue with him killing the civilians in the city, also theramore civilians getting killed for entertainment in ogrimmar shows he doesn’t mind killing for fun yet you argue he wouldn’t kill for no reasons as if killing for entertainment is a reason to kill.

Theramore burned because it was the seat of power supplying the warfighting in at least 4 zones and basically an entire front in the overarching war.

Teldrassil burned because the writing team asspulled a huge dramatic moment to generate a lot of interest for an expansion's introduction... or at least that's how it feels since the reasons for the conflict building just don't seem to matter at all and they were still trying to figure out what the hell they were doing when we were gearing up for battle for Dazar'alor.

[Varodoc]

Since Garrosh is the same psycho who nuked a civilian target and hunted down its survivors for sport, I'm going to say that Yes, he would.

[saintminya]

He wouldn't. Theramore was an ostensibly neutral fortress that was too close to Orgrimmar that started to house too much of the Alliance's military forces. Regardless of what may or may not have happened to the civilians after the bombing, the fact of the matter is that they were given time to evacuate to ensure the bomb only hit military targets. Teldrassil was a tree far off the coast of the contintent which was no real threat to any major Horde establishment. Had Garrosh's Horde conquered further into Ashenvale and began to secure Darkshore, then perhaps he'd see Teldrassil as a target. I highly doubt he'd nuke the place knowing civilians were still there. While he may have later tortured civilians, he still appeared to regard them as separate from targets on the battlefield. I guess that was some sense of honor in warfare he had.

[Syegfryed]

Secondly: No. I don't need to fantasize nor be in any dreamland. It's ignorant people such as yourself which is the main reason why bad characters in any form of media gets attention. Once Garrosh was brought more into the spotlight as of WoTLK (As in Outland he was... Mostly okay) it was clear that they had one direction they went with regarding this former Warchief; "Angry Orc with daddy issues" - he is so stuck up his ass about how his father once ruled a great horde while at the same time being mad that his father ruined it and brought shame to their people. You can't get a more one-dimensional character than Garrosh and the sooner you people realize that; the sooner we might start seing better structured characters in books / games / series.

I sadly can't answer to you in the same rude tone, but to think Garrosh is a "bad character" is just not having any critical sense, at all, even as a disrupted/conflicted villain Garrosh was good and way better than bipolar Sylvanas and the squid Janitor we have now.

Garrosh never wanted "genocide", it was never his main goal, not until the old god influence start kicking in, and even that, mostly he want was to conquer the whole point of he going back in time and creating the iron hore and putting his Father as leader was to make an army of conquerors to conquer Azeroth, not burn to the ground.

Thats why saying he would have burn teldrassil is just an invalid take filled with bias from people who know nothing of how he would deal with things, real Garrosh would have conqueror teldrasil, seize their resources and used as base

Heck it is literally explained what he wanted in the Tides of war book:

''"Is our right to dominate and control the lands of Kalindor. It is our and we will claim as such!

nothing here saying he would burn the lands

I speak also, and even more vigorously, of the night elves. Let them flee to the eastern kingdoms as we crush their cities and take their resources.

Drive the night elves out, and like i said, take their resources

"This is the plan. First Northwatch Hold, then Theramore, then we drive the night elves before us and take for our own what was their"

Again, "take for us what is theirs" kinda goes against the idea of "burn everything they have to the ground".

take their place and their resources, burning and wasting goes literally against Garrosh desires.

Start at page 24 of the tides of war book, its pre-mop, so its after Garrosh cataclysm

it is a great book that shows how Bfa was an entire clowfiesta of shit writing and nonsensical plot, in the book every leader was against Garrosh idea of war, despite the alliance being the main agressors, even Eitrigg, but in BfA everyone is in full retarded mode following sylvanas like she is the next messias, we didn't even heard a bad word from Eitrigg this time, he is even there fighting on the fray, the senile orc.

[MikeBogina]

Ogrimmar is also a legit military target. Before cataclysm, all lore of theramore island had theramore city on it.

Any city is a legit military target if you declare war on it's populace I guess. The difference being that the Alliance started the war and used Theramore as their base of operations to invade Horde territory with Jaina commanding their forces.

It got downgraded in cataclysm to give garrosh a cool moment without making horde seem like complete monsters.

IDK what the downgrades are that you're talking about, but that city has been used by 2 genocidal monsters to attack the Horde and Garrosh Did Nothing Wrong in defending the Horde from it.