I would like an expansion with just dungeons and raids

[Itisamuh]

Conversely, I would like an expansion with zero dungeons or raids, or any other content that requires manually formed groups. Luckily, or perhaps unluckily depending who you ask, neither of us are likely to get what we want.

[Necromantic]

I had a different experience with Legion, but that was probably due to the fact that I was at my absolute most hardcore that expansion than previously. The story of the expansion, artifacts, and class halls were implemented well I think. The part I just didn't like was never being able to get ahead or finish grinding essentially. I enjoyed having the option in Classic to maybe farm gold Saturday for 7 hours or some crazy number but then not having to log into the game if I wanted to outside of raiding until next week. Or I could farm gold for 1 hour every day, or do some extra one week in order to take more time off of farming. In Legion it was really like... if you weren't logging in every 8 hours or whatever, you were missing out on world quests.

I think if AP had a weekly cap on it, it would have prevented that system from being a slog. Also the absolute slap in the face when they added more traits to the artifact caused some people to outright quit the game. I definitely think having a weekly cap that like... compounded on itself would have been the better route. Just a quick example: Every week you can get a max of 1k AP. If you miss that cap or maybe you started the expansion later, whatever you missed would roll into next week continuing forever. So if I farm 1k this week, I only need to farm 1k next week. I can take a week off and farm 2k next week. I could do 500 this week and 1.5k next week. If I show up 6 months into the expansion, I can endlessly farm if I so choose in order to catch up to the current players.

Yeah, I wish there had been AP caps however, I can see some troll developer saying "ok, your cap is X but it'll take 6 hours a day for 7 days to reach the cap". Then there are those who like to do things nearly nonstop so they can feel a step ahead of everyone else who would oppose it.

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So - an expansion with just the boring bits. That sounds exciting.

I'd log in on one day and have nothing to do

You'll do your dungeons and like it!

[schwarzkopf]

You'll do your dungeons and like it!

Sure - but I still need something to do whilst I wait for an hour or two in the queue.

[Dracullus]

I wouldn't mind more focus on those things but I think quality matters more than quantity. Take Wotlk for example, it had the most dungeons but I would say most of them are pretty average with a couple of them being among the weakest dungeons ever put into the game. Something like Legion had less dungeons but for the most part I would say the quality was a lot better.

When it comes to raids I was never a huge fan of the '1 boss' raids but I do acknowledge having at least 1 mini raid per expansion (like a Trial of Valor) does add some flavor and mixes things up a bit between the 8-12 boss raids.

Yeah, simple instances with reused assets and 3 mechanics per boss have no place in current WoW and it would be shreded by community. But I think we should expect from devs something similar to BfA, since it clearly show devs can put more content than in SL without sacrificing patch from previous expac.

And I remind I don't talk about expac as whole, but about amount and quality of content (that was really bad used in BfA imo, especially questing content).

[Necromantic]

Sure - but I still need something to do whilst I wait for an hour or two in the queue.

Break out the PS5 like a normal citizen of 2021!

[Lane]

Not really, I would prefer if they take a system (like the Artifact weapon) and stick with it for more than one expansion and just expand it.

This. I never understood the point of ditching artifact weapons and class halls, I preferred both to HoA and covenants. They could've just kept expanding upon the weapons (abilities & appearances) and I would've been in heaven if they continued class campaigns. The Illidari could've been interesting after the defeat of the Burning Legion and, so far, I'm immensely disappointed that the Ebon Blade doesn't play more of a role in Shadowlands.

I'm not a fan of mission tables and AP collecting, but if we have to have it, again, I would've preferred we'd just stuck with artifacts & halls.

The only way I'd be okay with an expansion of 'only dungeons & raids' is if Blizzard finally added a rewarding 1-3 player mode for them. I was hopeful for Torghast, but it's been disappointing so far.

[Blackmist]

I think they're called "patches".

[Dracullus]

This. I never understood the point of ditching artifact weapons and class halls, I preferred both to HoA and covenants. They could've just kept expanding upon the weapons (abilities & appearances) and I would've been in heaven if they continued class campaigns. The Illidari could've been interesting after the defeat of the Burning Legion and, so far, I'm immensely disappointed that the Ebon Blade doesn't play more of a role in Shadowlands.

I'm not a fan of mission tables and AP collecting, but if we have to have it, again, I would've preferred we'd just stuck with artifacts & halls.

The only way I'd be okay with an expansion of 'only dungeons & raids' is if Blizzard finally added a rewarding 1-3 player mode for them. I was hopeful for Torghast, but it's been disappointing so far.

You made two mistakes that many people complaining about borrowing power makes:

1. What to do with people who skip some expac? Force them to grind more than you? Give them artifact rank for free and invalidate your whole progress anyway?

2. How much new traits on top on new traits on top of new traits game would survive before it would collapse under it's own weight?

And about class stories, it's just preference. Personally I would like some class quest from time to time (especially challenging one), but spliting narrative in 12 way wasn't best idea and backfired heavy in 7.2.

[Deferionus]

Are you sure it is the game for you? WoW has always been mostly a lobby game. If you want a world game something like runescape or eve online is the game for you wow has always been about instances.

You are completely wrong. WoW originally had a strong focus on the world and its content. It was not until the introduce of LFG and LFR that it became a lobby game and that is why those features are so heavily hated by older players. This is also a part of why classic is popular and private servers existed.

I played RuneScape starting in 2001 and moved from it to WoW and the world was just as important in Warcraft.

[Sondrelk]

Interestingly enough I already made a thread like this and 80 percent of the people who voted on the poll agreed with you.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...t-gimmick-quot

I agree with the sentiment, and at least here on this forum we seem to be in the majority.

Ive had it with dumb systems and menus, I just want to play the game.

What you want is WoD, and that tanked heavily.

The idea that you just want dungeons and raids is fine if you assume everyone is on the exact same wavelength of how much raiding is enough, but the second someone has more time to play, or less time, or dislikes a particular raid for whatever reason then the entire house of cards fall.

If wow players were all the type that plays a couple evenings per week over 5-6 weeks when a new raid comes out then maybe, but there are those that would prefer games that take their attention a bit more, or even just something to idly play in the background, and for those players just having raids would be horrible.

By having more than just instanced content you diversify the game, and reward players who want to play it more while still having raids for those that just want that.

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You made two mistakes that many people complaining about borrowing power makes:

1. What to do with people who skip some expac? Force them to grind more than you? Give them artifact rank for free and invalidate your whole progress anyway?

2. How much new traits on top on new traits on top of new traits game would survive before it would collapse under it's own weight?

And about class stories, it's just preference. Personally I would like some class quest from time to time (especially challenging one), but spliting narrative in 12 way wasn't best idea and backfired heavy in 7.2.

7.2 really is the quintessential example of why class quests wouldn't work that we'll going forwards.

Either you have a questline for each class every patch or even every expansion, which takes up a massive amount of effort, while also likely making some absolutely shit ones.
Or you only make them when you have a good idea for the , which takes up far less time and effort, but also means classes like hunter and warrior would almost never get anything compared to more important classes like mages.

[czarek]

Cool story cool dungeons cool zones cool calss design. No more azeriteo systems shit no more renown crap no more farm time gated crap. We need content not time consumeing systems.

[Lei]

The world content is more popular than it has ever been and it has no participation problems at all.

Lol. No, really: lol.

[Qnubi]

Sure - but I still need something to do whilst I wait for an hour or two in the queue.

Who waits 1 or 2 hours for a queue to pop. Nobody in WoW.

[Rageonit]

I just think more bread and butter would make a better expansion then wasting time on making one or two turd sandwiches with it.

I don't think it's realistic to expect that less systems and gimmicks would equal more dungeons and raids. Those things are done by different teams, and it's not like the system team could suddenly be moved to art department or encounter design department. To have more raids and dungeons, would require a rather huge restructuring of the entire company. Can't see it happening, ever.

Also, homogenizing the game would only make it cater to a smaller audience, so from $$$ perspective, it's unsustainable.

EDIT:

Lol. No, really: lol.

You sure about it? Just logged in (EU server, still school/work time) to check, and there are 60+ groups in the "custom" LFG section. Also, whenever I create an LFG group for any kind of SL open world content (Valfirs and what nots), I get multiple participants in a matter of seconds. Can't say world content is "more popular than ever", because I don't track stuff like that, but it certainly ain't dead...
(Not to mention I play on a low population realm.)

[Crimson Spears]

You are completely wrong. WoW originally had a strong focus on the world and its content. It was not until the introduce of LFG and LFR that it became a lobby game and that is why those features are so heavily hated by older players. This is also a part of why classic is popular and private servers existed.

I played RuneScape starting in 2001 and moved from it to WoW and the world was just as important in Warcraft.

When because it wasn't in classic,tbc,wrath,cata,mop,wod,legion, bfa, or sl.

Having world mobs drop specific crafting mats can't be a strong focus and the only example you can give...

[Lane]

You made two mistakes that many people complaining about borrowing power makes:

1. What to do with people who skip some expac? Force them to grind more than you? Give them artifact rank for free and invalidate your whole progress anyway?

2. How much new traits on top on new traits on top of new traits game would survive before it would collapse under it's own weight?

And about class stories, it's just preference. Personally I would like some class quest from time to time (especially challenging one), but spliting narrative in 12 way wasn't best idea and backfired heavy in 7.2.

Progress invalidation happens every expansion anyway, so I don't see how that matters. As I stated, if we have to have these systems I'd rather we not change them every expansion to arguably worse versions than what was in Legion. I assume what would happen is old artifact traits would either be baked in or turned into talents and everyone would start anew as they have since BC.

7.2 really is the quintessential example of why class quests wouldn't work that we'll going forwards.

Either you have a questline for each class every patch or even every expansion, which takes up a massive amount of effort, while also likely making some absolutely shit ones.
Or you only make them when you have a good idea for the , which takes up far less time and effort, but also means classes like hunter and warrior would almost never get anything compared to more important classes like mages.

I don't know what happened in 7.2? I quit before then and didn't return until 7.3. I thought it was obvious early on that some of the classes lacked the lore to craft meaningful stories and needed to be given some agency other than, for example, warrior amusing Odyn. A massive amount of effort is put into zones that I never set foot in again after I've completed them, so I don't see class campaigns being much different. As it was, they all used existing assets, so it mostly comes down to additional voice acting and quest text.

[schwarzkopf]

Who waits 1 or 2 hours for a queue to pop.

Most DPS do ... just life for the lower class.

[Azerate]

Lol. No, really: lol.

Whenever I'm doing WQs for callings I see multiple people also doing them at the same time.

All the open world mounts/pets I'm currently farming have multiple 20+ man raids being gathered every day.

So "yes, really: lol", world content is just fine. Don't mistake "I can't be bothered to do this" with "no one likes this".

[CataclismicSunrise]

Actually wouldn't mind that. Expansion systems tend to frustrate me, especially when the next expansion rolls out and the old systems are left to rot. I don't go back to my garrison or class hall, but I do go back to old dungeons and raids. Think on that.

[Hctaz]

Yeah, I wish there had been AP caps however, I can see some troll developer saying "ok, your cap is X but it'll take 6 hours a day for 7 days to reach the cap". Then there are those who like to do things nearly nonstop so they can feel a step ahead of everyone else who would oppose it.

Quite possibly. I mean, it's all a numbers game to them at this point and not sub numbers necessarily.