Bigger time sink, BC or Retail?

[Bloodyleech]

Retail. There isn't even a doubt.

After leveling and gearing up from heroics, you strictly raid or do arenas on TBC. Even if leveling takes longer, the rest surpasses it on retail, with multiple consistent grinds throughout its patch course. Legendaries, Sockets, Conduits, Anima, bla bla bla. Raid progression is also vastly longer, and usually mid tier mythic guilds progress through months, where TBC raids will be cleared in the first day.

It's not even close.

Compare Heroic, which is done day one, with BC raids, not mythic. Mythic is way harder than any BC boss is.
Sockets/Conduits: no, everyone who farms them and isn't competing for world #1 is just taking it on themself. Not mandatory.
Anima: no, has absolutely no character power behind it. Not mandatory.
Legendaries: 2x30 min per week, for 4 weeks. Mandatory, but not more than 1 hour a week investment.
and what else you got?

[ClassicPeon]

You still do not tell me what you compared your message to.
Well, if your english would be better you'd understand what I'm saying, as I'm really going easy on it so that anyone could understand it.
Anyways, this isn't the point of the thread. You said something that's completely stupid, just for trolling purpose, so... yeah. No, you can't compare unnecessary stygia farming with heroic gear. Doesn't make sense. Easy enough for you now?

I wasnt trying to be demeaning i just assumed your english wasnt very good because your point didnt make sense. It still doesnt though.

I dont understand what you mean by "what you compared your message to"

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Random poor itemization aside, the vast majority of players will get significant power gains when a new tier comes out.

No one in arena is going to be wearing the previous season's gear, for example. You need to grind out a new set over and over

Definitely. Just like every other expansion

[Hellobolis]

retail.

just think about what you are doing 1 month after new content releases in each.

in TBC chances are it's a 1 day a week affair.

in retail you are likely still raiding 2-3 days a week, many people will still be working on keystone master or w/e their m+ goals are, etc.

[Krakan]

If your just doing heroic on retail tbc is bigger. If your doing mythic ce level retail is.

[Asrialol]

The hell it is. This and among other reasons is why I left the game about 2 weeks ago. Retail is nothing but a farm orgy. the Anima grind is real and especially since Blizzard can't balance covenants even if their lives depended on it. And believe it or not a lot of people switch covenants more then once, and for some more then twice.

What anima grind? Why is having cosmetics, toys and such non-power gain things something you consider mandatory? The people who grinds anima does it for cosmetics. There isn't any gain to character power.

If balance is something you're concerned about why on earth are you fine with classic or even tbc?

[XDurionX]

I couldn't be arsed to spend 10 minutes in BC again, so retail.

[aceperson]

retail. with tbc, it was a grind but you knew you were going to get what you wanted in a reasonable timeframe. retail is so rng heavy that you could go an entire tier without ever even seeing what you want, let alone getting it.

[unbound]

Retail by far.

rofl

BC is a bigger time sink. The primary difference is that there was a lot of progression in BC throughout the entire expansion. Retail progression has been non-existent for a long time.

Heck, retail progression was pretty much over within a couple of months. Clearing mythic raids or M+ dungeons is a content-less form of progression and thus vapid. The fact that people mindlessly grind for absolutely nothing in retail (e.g. let's gear up my other ranged dps alt to the same ilvl so that that alt can do exactly the same things my main did in raid).

[sam86]

retail since a lot of bullshit cosmetics around, gearing-wise still classic since retail they nerfed drop rate because they can't accept not forcing ppl to bullshit raid weekly for gear

Unless of course you go in late and then the "To-Do" list becomes increasingly daunting and difficult to do depending on of course your goals.

TBC introduced tokens, and u can get best gear outside of sunwell from tokens alone, except of course the twinblads legendary drop

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BC is a bigger time sink. The primary difference is that there was a lot of progression in BC throughout the entire expansion. Retail progression has been non-existent for a long time.

i didn't count for SL since i stopped caring, but during Legion (an expansion i actually like btw) in order to get best in slot for paladin in nighthold u had to average raid for 4 years to get best gear due to TF procs, mind that many items didn't proc
in SL they removed TF but reduced drop rate to fuck players so no idea if rate to get best gear is still in years or not
TBC is still horrible but u can average best gear in less than year per tier of raiding at least, something i did achieve in wrath myself in almost every raid set minus a piece or two (tbc i never raided sunwell to call it, but i got full tokens gear if that counts)

[hulkgor]

Compare Heroic, which is done day one, with BC raids, not mythic. Mythic is way harder than any BC boss is.
Sockets/Conduits: no, everyone who farms them and isn't competing for world #1 is just taking it on themself. Not mandatory.
Anima: no, has absolutely no character power behind it. Not mandatory.
Legendaries: 2x30 min per week, for 4 weeks. Mandatory, but not more than 1 hour a week investment.
and what else you got?

? Nitpicking about expansion-wide grinds people do? I don't care if people do, or don't, or if it's mandatory. It exists, it's there, it's content to do.

So, you probably think TBC has a bigger time sink, you say? What with? Jumping around Shatt waiting for next raid? Think about what else, and then nitpick about those as much as you did above.

[Bloodyleech]

? Nitpicking about expansion-wide grinds people do? I don't care if people do, or don't, or if it's mandatory. It exists, it's there, it's content to do.

So, you probably think TBC has a bigger time sink, you say? What with? Jumping around Shatt waiting for next raid? Think about what else, and then nitpick about those as much as you did above.

I asked him what else he got, not "duh tbc way more time investment needed than retail pog". Tbc HAS more mandatory stuff to do, while retail has more optional stuff you could do. As the OP asked for curve, you pretty much only do 1 M+ per week + the newest raid as soon as you got renown 34ish and your legendary (which only takes 2x30min/week). In tbc you do more than that. Heroic dungeons on CD for badges and all available raids, each and every week. Only counting dungeon + raidcontent, tbc has more mandatory stuff to do than retail, that's a simple fact.

[Aggressive]

What anima grind? Why is having cosmetics, toys and such non-power gain things something you consider mandatory? The people who grinds anima does it for cosmetics. There isn't any gain to character power.

If balance is something you're concerned about why on earth are you fine with classic or even tbc?

Funny you say cause that is why I left 2 weeks ago. Time for other games. Not WoW. No matter what kind they are bringing out. Maybe some where down the line but sure as hell not now.

Edit...I was anima grinding for the shit like level 3 mission table. The necessities. NOT cosmetics. But with 2 toons that is a time sink that is not worth it.

[munkeyinorbit]

M+ for vault slots/Valor, Maw for sockets/conduits, Torghast for soul ash.

Are some grinds that come to mind

That's not grind. That's playing the game. The only grind is for anima and it's optional.

[Kehego]

M+ for vault slots/Valor, Maw for sockets/conduits, Torghast for soul ash.

Are some grinds that come to mind

torghast is 1 hour a week
M+ is 30-45 mins/dungeon
maw is 20 min/day

oh wow you have to play a mandatory 2 hours a week. wow.

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Requirements for tbc
Rep grind
Mat farming for reps
Heroic grind
Attuning

Retail
3 weekly quests
Lfr unless you have full covenant gear
1 m+ dungeon a week
2 torghast runs a week
Channeling to anima conductor daily for 30 days because leggo rng acquisition is and always will be garbage

Honestly tbc is more of a time sink because retail is just a 3 hour weekly chore list

its not random, you're just bad.

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You are missing some stuff from retail. Like the maw farming for covenant upgrades and innitial rep.

Saying all you need in retail is 1m+ a week is like saying all you needed to do in wrath was 1 hc a week. You are skipping the entire gearing we did at the start with hc's, mythics, and general gearing in m+/pvp.

you literally never have to set foot in the maw. sockets are nice but for dogshit casual playing you 1000% don't need it.
Covenant campaign is 1 hour a week, damn, such grind

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TBC itemization is not as shit as Classic. You won’t be running around with dungeon or early raid stuff when the next raid opens up

Edit: and going back into the same dungeon and getting the item again is better than never going into the dungeon again because dungeon gear is fucking trash

tbc itemization is pretty bad though, still.

like have fun using latros shifting blade and hourglass till black temple pretty much

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almost 40, and i cleared naxx and cleared sunwell back in the day. Very hardcore back then.

The appeal of the classic games is far more attractive to me than retail. Retail's seasonal approach is too diablo 3, and not enough mmorpg.

it may be old, but it's a better RPG and there's no question about it. Every single thing has a place in vanilla-wotlk WoW... retail is literally diablo 3 wearing WoW's skin like an imposter.

The talent system? More D3 than WoW.
The seasonal progression system? more D3 than WoW
different levels of the same gear? You guessed it, D3 inspired.
M+ is just d3 rift affixes slapped onto dungeons with WoW flavor.


the only things that have any permanence or real "value" in retail are mounts, pets, and cosmetics... like a damn phone game.

where's the rpg? Where's the rare and exclusive items that only a brave few ever get? Where's the value in gear, or the actual dangers of the world?

raid tiers were pretty much seasons, though.

The myth of "constant progression throughout tiers" just reads as "my guild was shit so I was months behind"

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

BC you grind for a month or so to get your reps and attunements completed, then it's pretty chill and you can relax with whichever activity and time investment level you want.
Retail you grind for a month ...and then another ...and then another, the boring repetitive tasks never stop in retail and you never get the freedom to "relax" anymore ...has been the case since the introduction of "AP grinds" in Legion.

[Kehego]

Its actually not as bad as people say. The rep farming.

Not even aldor&scryer rep is bad compared to todays grinds

yeah, they are worse

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Funny you say cause that is why I left 2 weeks ago. Time for other games. Not WoW. No matter what kind they are bringing out. Maybe some where down the line but sure as hell not now.

Edit...I was anima grinding for the shit like level 3 mission table. The necessities. NOT cosmetics. But with 2 toons that is a time sink that is not worth it.

nothing in the covenant hall is related to power outside renown

[Queen of Hamsters]

Retail.

TBC will be on my schedule as long as it takes me to clear the raid content. Beyond that, zero reason to keep playing. It has more straight-forward gearing and all that too which is a huge bonus. If it had the SL progression ladder, I would run away screaming.

[Kehego]

BC you grind for a month or so to get your reps and attunements completed, then it's pretty chill and you can relax with whichever activity and time investment level you want.
Retail you grind for a month ...and then another ...and then another, the boring repetitive tasks never stop in retail and you never get the freedom to "relax" anymore ...has been the case since the introduction of "AP grinds" in Legion.

what are you grinding in shadowlands?
anima? lmao

you have no idea what you're talking about but I really shouldn't be surprised.

[Nalam the Venom]

That's not grind. That's playing the game. The only grind is for anima and it's optional.

I am not saying that i consider these things grind.

Just that the people who say that shadowlands is a grind are usally refering to those things, They consider these things boring and "mandatory" thus becoming a grindy chore.

Still not my opinion, so don't twist it into thinking that i personally consider these things a grind or bad.

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torghast is 1 hour a week
M+ is 30-45 mins/dungeon
maw is 20 min/day

I am not saying that i consider these things grind.

Just that the people who say that shadowlands is a grind are usally refering to those things, They consider these things boring and "mandatory" thus becoming a grindy chore.

Still not my opinion, so don't twist it into thinking that i personally consider these things a grind or bad.

[Mister K]

TBC/WotLK because of Arenas which increase the longevity of the game. Specially if they capitalise on it (but they're not smart).