With that hatchet buried I need to ask - Would ActiBlizz not make more money:

[justandulas]

As someone who started in late Vanilla and played through until MoP and then stopped playing WoW altogether, I wouldn't personally want to come back and play any old expansions again, been there, done that. Nothing has really changed in the WoW model, level up, gear up, pvp/raid.

I come back every now and again to read stuff here on MMO and catch up. With the pandemic, I would assume that maybe a lot more people would come back to play the game, so not sure if that has happened. The other thing I noticed these last few months with MMO-Champion, is the lack of articles to read about WoW in general. Is the output from this site about WoW also a lot lower recently, or is that there is not a lot of news about the game at all?

Both. This forum is basically dying because it’s such a safe space for retail fanatics that most sane people walked away when they quit WoW.

The game is dying, and this site is on life support too. It’s both

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Lmfao, the mythological "community" which is what, only the shit that you read and agree with? If you're dense enough to believe that people weren't complaining about shit in both Legion and MoP then I don't know what the fuck to tell you.

Not even 1/100 of the level of SL or bfa and you are dense if you don’t see that. SL is the lowest point in WoW history and without classic propping up the corpse, it would’ve had the plug pulled by now.

Legion was the highest point in modern retail WoW history. It was arguably the 3rd best expansion of all time

Then ion took over in legion and brought in the d3 team and together, they ruined the game with bfa and SL. The damage is too great to bounce back from too the entire heads of the team should be fired and openly shamed for basically killing WoW

[Doffen]

Both. This forum is basically dying because it’s such a safe space for retail fanatics that most sane people walked away when they quit WoW.

Or vanilla fanatics that can't let go, which is even more insane.

[justandulas]

Or vanilla fanatics that can't let go, which is even more insane.

This forum had been vehemently anti classic long before it was even announced, ignored its successes, and treated it like it was the worst thing to happen to wow in years and not the best

Try to imagine an alternate reality where bfa and SL have unfolded exactly as they did but without classic around to pull people in or prop up subs

WoW would legit be on life support

[Doffen]

This forum had been vehemently anti classic long before it was even announced, ignored its successes, and treated it like it was the worst thing to happen to wow in years and not the best

Try to imagine an alternate reality where bfa and SL have unfolded exactly as they did but without classic around to pull people in or prop up subs

WoW would legit be on life support

This forum has been anti retail for years now, where have you been?

[justandulas]

This forum has been anti retail for years now, where have you been?

Do you not remember the posts in the thousand pages before classic even launched or was announced with the retail crowd denouncing people even asking for it?

Did you not see this forum ignore classics success while being blissfully ignorant of retails fails in recent years?

This forum is far from anti retail, it’s probably the most pro retail fan site on the internet.

Go check wowhead comments, go check YouTube comments, Reddit, or even WoW general forums which are so censored that I don’t even know why I mentioned them, but spoiler alert... retail IS in a bad state and people calling it out isn’t “anti retail” it’s just calling a spade a spade. Retail is in a death spiral currently and the head staff is to blame for its rudderless direction.

Ask, why would millions prefer a 15 year old version of WoW over a fresh new shiny one? SL had the people try it from classic, but lost almost 70% of their player base by now. Why? That’s not classic tbc fault that it appeals to more people than a 9.1

[McNeil]

Older expansions like TBC and WotLK work because they are over a decade old and a lot of people either started playing or just missed out on them. When you start doing Cata and MoP they are going to feel diminishing returns where interest will drop a lot lower, especially considering that this is where the game started to feel drastically different into a more action/arcade RPG. Even TBC and possibly WotLK won't see the same succes as Classic because of how old and different it was. And I do think that having so many versions cannibalising each other is going to be a problem.

Also I wish people would stop looking that much into the mix-maxing guilds who really want to clear the game ASAP. This is not a good indication of how Blizzard should be designing the game, the vast majority will always be casuals who will spend most of their time even getting to max level. And I expect that most raiders will be struggling enough on certain bosses (especially Magtheridon), not being able to kill them before tier 5 releases.

[justandulas]

Older expansions like TBC and WotLK work because they are over a decade old and a lot of people either started playing or just missed out on them. When you start doing Cata and MoP they are going to feel diminishing returns where interest will drop a lot lower, especially considering that this is where the game started to feel drastically different into a more action/arcade RPG. Even TBC and possibly WotLK won't see the same succes as Classic because of how old and different it was. And I do think that having so many versions cannibalising each other is going to be a problem.

Also I wish people would stop looking that much into the mix-maxing guilds who really want to clear the game ASAP. This is not a good indication of how Blizzard should be designing the game, the vast majority will always be casuals who will spend most of their time even getting to max level. And I expect that most raiders will be struggling enough on certain bosses (especially Magtheridon), not being able to kill them before tier 5 releases.

This. When classic was conceived and leaked originally, the plan was classic-classic wotlk and that was it. I wouldn’t expect a classic anything past wotlk.

Tbc and wotlk will see diminished returns tho compared to classic. Which was one of the biggest launches of all time. No way tbc or wotlk matches that. Classic was simply too big

[Lochton]

They wouldn't earn much if they opened them all at the same time.

There is better profit and control to open an expansion at a time.

We can guess, now that the box is open, that all previous expansions are going to get a Classic version.

And opened up servers for all versions at the same time will just water out the player base, and we'll have dead servers fast.

[Relapses]

Just the way you phrase it makes it crystal clear that there is no hope for you. It's kind of ironic seeing your list the MMO-Champ bingo when you alone could strike out so many of the blocks.

You also again display your inability to read. Under no sircumstance did I say that people were not complaining about Legion or MoP but if you actually tok your time to pay attention and see the feedback which the games got (Something I assume a 10 year old member of this page would have done) you should easily have been able to tell back then or heck; even just LOOK UP YOURSELF today that MoP and Legion got LESS negative feedback than WoD did and SL currently is getting. Did they get no negative feedback? Absolutely not, that is a fictional setting you made up in your head to try and make me seem like the fool when in reality; I never said that.

I also can't let go of your phrasing; "Mythological community" - No wonder your kin is looked down upon when you reject the very notion of a community. It's clear that you are the one who only think it would exist within the boundaries of what you agree with as I have personally within this thread alone brought up "Both sides of a point" at least twice yet you keep behaving like only one exists.

The more and more I read trough your profile activity too it become clear that I maybe should leave you be as arguing with someone who looks up and down rather then left and right before crossing the street never really leads anywhere but... *sigh* I find you people amusing if nothing else.

If you want to keep on, fine. Be my guest, I got all day. Just know that simply because you refuse the acknowledge the existence of (Insert whatever you are ignoring here) - It does not mean said thing / topic is not real.

LOL this is too rich! Once again, you don't get to make shit up then tell me to find the evidence to support your claims. That's not how this works. You seem all but convinced that certain expansions were unequivocally, unquestionably better received than others so please, show us how you came to that conclusion. (No, "feedback on this forum" is not evidence to support your claim.)

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Not even 1/100 of the level of SL or bfa and you are dense if you don’t see that. SL is the lowest point in WoW history and without classic propping up the corpse, it would’ve had the plug pulled by now.

Legion was the highest point in modern retail WoW history. It was arguably the 3rd best expansion of all time

Then ion took over in legion and brought in the d3 team and together, they ruined the game with bfa and SL. The damage is too great to bounce back from too the entire heads of the team should be fired and openly shamed for basically killing WoW

Well then, I guess because you said so it must be true! I'll make sure I defer all my opinions to you from this point forward because I'd really hate to accidentally think for myself.

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Ask, why would millions prefer a 15 year old version of WoW over a fresh new shiny one? SL had the people try it from classic, but lost almost 70% of their player base by now. Why? That’s not classic tbc fault that it appeals to more people than a 9.1

Did you know that some people prefer strawberry ice cream to vanilla? I couldn't believe it myself when I first heard about it. There's even some degenerates who prefer this thing called "chocolate." Fucking weirdos, man. Why can't everybody just think the same way about everything???

[greysaber]

This. When classic was conceived and leaked originally, the plan was classic-classic wotlk and that was it. I wouldn’t expect a classic anything past wotlk.

Tbc and wotlk will see diminished returns tho compared to classic. Which was one of the biggest launches of all time. No way tbc or wotlk matches that. Classic was simply too big

I'll bet you 10,000 classic gold that wrath classic outperforms vanilla.

Assuming Biden hasn't gotten us into war with China before T5 even releases, that is...

Even though China actually deserves it...

[justandulas]

I'll bet you 10,000 classic gold that wrath classic outperforms vanilla.

Assuming Biden hasn't gotten us into war with China before T5 even releases, that is...

Even though China actually deserves it...

While I don’t have 10k gold to bet in classic, that is a safe bet to take. Wotlk classic will not outperform classic classic. Neither will my personal favorite tbc

Wotlk was the peak of population during its initial run, but a lot of that was the success of vanilla-tbc attracting swarms of new players

How many new players will Wotlk be able to pull in 2023-4? Not close to as many as original Wotlk, and it doesn’t really have the same longevity of content that vanilla-tbc did

Edit: I do think Wotlk will happen tho and will wipe the floor of whatever is left of SL

[Knight Meta]

(No, "feedback on this forum" is not evidence to support your claim.)

I only need this bit to put the nail in the coffin on how truly lost and in denial you are. It shows that you have not paid attention what so ever and don't have a grip what so ever on how this game has been looked upon by any community other than those of you who live in a constant state of denial. You hide behind the "Oh you are not doing the dirty work for me?!" phrase as if it's the equivalent of "winning" and argument because you corrected someone's grammar. Given how utterly horseshit the search function on MMO-Champ and the Blizzard forums is and how no one simply names their threads "I like (X)" or "I dislike X" without putting a smal novel in the title (Looking away from troll threads that is which is clearly where you seem to thrive) there is no way anyone who was there to see the threads go live years back will do the digging for you. You are not mentally rejected are you? If you are so sure that your view is the correct one, why not prove it in the same way you "challenge" me?

As someone who clearly have been around the block I would reckon you had been around to see it. The factum alone that you don't believe that Legion or MoP got less negative feedback than WoD and current-day SL is all the proof anyone needs to see that you don't pay attention, you clearly don't care and all you do is troll around and live in a tiny bubble which fears change.

That you even had the lack of wit to say that "No, "feedback on this forum" is not evidence to support your claim." is such a clear give away. I find it rich and you are hilariously entertaining, I suppose I do other threads a favor by redirecting some of your attention here so by all means, continue, harp on, show how your family tree clearly is a circle and carry on making a joke out of yourself as you keep trying to "cling to a point" you pulled out of thin air; a point you made up on the spot as you most likely on purpose missed the point of this post entirely; all the while ignoring the voices of the community which has been sung out on this webpage for over 10 years.

[Relapses]

I only need this bit to put the nail in the coffin on how truly lost and in denial you are. It shows that you have not paid attention what so ever and don't have a grip what so ever on how this game has been looked upon by any community other than those of you who live in a constant state of denial. You hide behind the "Oh you are not doing the dirty work for me?!" phrase as if it's the equivalent of "winning" and argument because you corrected someone's grammar. Given how utterly horseshit the search function on MMO-Champ and the Blizzard forums is and how no one simply names their threads "I like (X)" or "I dislike X" without putting a smal novel in the title (Looking away from troll threads that is which is clearly where you seem to thrive) there is no way anyone who was there to see the threads go live years back will do the digging for you. You are not mentally rejected are you? If you are so sure that your view is the correct one, why not prove it in the same way you "challenge" me?

As someone who clearly have been around the block I would reckon you had been around to see it. The factum alone that you don't believe that Legion or MoP got less negative feedback than WoD and current-day SL is all the proof anyone needs to see that you don't pay attention, you clearly don't care and all you do is troll around and live in a tiny bubble which fears change.

That you even had the lack of wit to say that "No, "feedback on this forum" is not evidence to support your claim." is such a clear give away. I find it rich and you are hilariously entertaining, I suppose I do other threads a favor by redirecting some of your attention here so by all means, continue, harp on, show how your family tree clearly is a circle and carry on making a joke out of yourself as you keep trying to "cling to a point" you pulled out of thin air; a point you made up on the spot as you most likely on purpose missed the point of this post entirely; all the while ignoring the voices of the community which has been sung out on this webpage for over 10 years.

That's a lot of words to say that you have absolutely zero supporting evidence.

[Knight Meta]

That's a lot of words to say that you have absolutely zero supporting evidence.

And that is just the correct amount of words to say that your situation on the matter is the same as mine. Kind of funny how it works? Isn't it?

[Relapses]

And that is just the correct amount of words to say that your situation on the matter is the same as mine. Kind of funny how it works? Isn't it?

My situation? I simply asked you to source your claims in a manner that doesn't involve stating the cynical, completely undefinable community hivemind as an irreproachable fact.

[Knight Meta]

My situation? I simply asked you to source your claims in a manner that doesn't involve stating the cynical, completely undefinable community hivemind as an irreproachable fact.

And I have yet to wonder how you can act as if you "Know to the teeth" that your statements are the facts you proclaim them to be without offering ANYTHING. I at least provided the onset of that "MoP and Legion did not get as much shit as WoD and SL" which is all there in forum threads and posts. Yet why should I bother to go digging for you if you yourself are not going to provide anything to back up your senseless statements? Just by mere posts you have made in this thread; it's obvious to anyone that you got nothing to back yourself up, you reek of "I get insecure when someone does not follow the system and suggest changes or goes against what I see trough my narrow lense"

You are clearly not someone who even would be interested in meeting someone half way and that in it self is likely why you have ended up the way you are. Like I suppose I could do like most others you most likely argue with and simply "agree" with your baseless statements, but then we would both be wrong.

[Knight Meta]

Considering that people here think:
-Blizzard / Activison is greedy
-Bobby Kotik needs a new yacht
-Corporations want to make as much money as possible
-Shareholders push companies to make as much money as possible
-They can hire anything to ensure this


...no...I don't think anything the community or you @Knight Meta suggest to make more money has not been considered by them. Oh...I know everybody thinks that they are that 1 in a million person that has found something that nobody else did....because the read on the internet that somebody somewhere once did exactly that.

In which case you should hold on to that info, sell it at a high costs, capitalize on it yourself

Oh by all means I would not be surprised if it has been aired over at their office - It's simply that we have not really heard em say "Yes or no" about it. (Not that the question of this scale has appeared many times)

For me it was mostly just to air the idèa of it and see what others thinks of it. Would it be possible or not, see what others themselves thinks of it as a concept.

As clear by just going 3 comments up; someone misses the point on purpose entirely as is tradition on MMO-C but yeah, I was hoping to see some share their 2 cents on it (Which some has done in this thread) - I find MMO-C to be better than the official forums for these kind of topics.

[Relapses]

And I have yet to wonder how you can act as if you "Know to the teeth" that your statements are the facts you proclaim them to be without offering ANYTHING. I at least provided the onset of that "MoP and Legion did not get as much shit as WoD and SL" which is all there in forum threads and posts. Yet why should I bother to go digging for you if you yourself are not going to provide anything to back up your senseless statements? Just by mere posts you have made in this thread; it's obvious to anyone that you got nothing to back yourself up, you reek of "I get insecure when someone does not follow the system and suggest changes or goes against what I see trough my narrow lense"

You are clearly not someone who even would be interested in meeting someone half way and that in it self is likely why you have ended up the way you are. Like I suppose I could do like most others you most likely argue with and simply "agree" with your baseless statements, but then we would both be wrong.

I don't think you really understand what I'm getting at here. I've tried to slow it down a few times for you and let you come to your own conclusions but I guess you're so caught up in your own preconceived notions that the mere possibility of objectivity simply fails to register in your mind. At no point in this game's 17 year history have all players agreed that the game was in a universally better or worse state. That isn't to say that there aren't better or worse expansions but rather that this distinction should be a personal one rather than one that you source by using the community's hivemind to justify your opinions.

[Knight Meta]

I don't think you really understand what I'm getting at here. I've tried to slow it down a few times for you and let you come to your own conclusions but I guess you're so caught up in your own preconceived notions that the mere possibility of objectivity simply fails to register in your mind. At no point in this game's 17 year history have all players agreed that the game was in a universally better or worse state. That isn't to say that there aren't better or worse expansions but rather that this distinction should be a personal one rather than one that you source by using the community's hivemind to justify your opinions.

And there you go again, not slowing down at all but gassing on with your own narrow sight. At no point EVER did I say that "All players agreed" on anything. This is yet another poorly worded phrase you utilize to put words in other people's mouth. ALL I said (Regarding the recent topic and example) was; And I clearly need to say it again as you missed out "MoP and Legion simply had more positive feedback than WoD and current day SL" <- This does in NO WAY mean that EVERYONE loved MoP or Legion, nor does it mean that everyone hated WoD and hates SL. You keep coming up with these fake setups that I do not understand where you pull from other than for the pure purpose of causing chaos.

It's simply a matter of that if you go to anywhere and check reviews, feedback, threads and posts made on the expansions - Made by the very players that plays this game; the people who above anyone else; especially outsider just looking in - Has a right to say if they found the game to be good or not. And my only point during the last comments has been that someone like you who clearly has been around all these years MUST Have been able to see that MoP and Legion got better receptions and feedback when compared to WoD and Legion.

You have openly ignored this and kept shoving words into my mouth to make yourself seem like the one who was "right" - Meanwhile I never cared about any right or wrong as it's a simple matter of: "This has happened, Legion and MoP was better received than WoD and SL"

That you also call it "The community's hivemind" also just hammers home your mentality about this all so clearly and it truly is a shame that you think yourself to be seated on a high horse at any point.

[Relapses]

And there you go again, not slowing down at all but gassing on with your own narrow sight. At no point EVER did I say that "All players agreed" on anything. This is yet another poorly worded phrase you utilize to put words in other people's mouth. ALL I said (Regarding the recent topic and example) was; And I clearly need to say it again as you missed out "MoP and Legion simply had more positive feedback than WoD and current day SL" <- This does in NO WAY mean that EVERYONE loved MoP or Legion, nor does it mean that everyone hated WoD and hates SL. You keep coming up with these fake setups that I do not understand where you pull from other than for the pure purpose of causing chaos.

It's simply a matter of that if you go to anywhere and check reviews, feedback, threads and posts made on the expansions - Made by the very players that plays this game; the people who above anyone else; especially outsider just looking in - Has a right to say if they found the game to be good or not. And my only point during the last comments has been that someone like you who clearly has been around all these years MUST Have been able to see that MoP and Legion got better receptions and feedback when compared to WoD and Legion.

You have openly ignored this and kept shoving words into my mouth to make yourself seem like the one who was "right" - Meanwhile I never cared about any right or wrong as it's a simple matter of: "This has happened, Legion and MoP was better received than WoD and SL"

That you also call it "The community's hivemind" also just hammers home your mentality about this all so clearly and it truly is a shame that you think yourself to be seated on a high horse at any point.

Well, I tried. Hopefully one day you'll be able to form your own opinions instead of relying on other people to tell you how to think.