In a world without classic...

[justandulas]

This is purely a speculation thread, do not attack each other please. We can agree to disagree without mud slinging... now

While discussing retail and classic I had a speculative idea... Imagine an alternate reality where BFA and SL have unfolded exactly as they have, because that wouldn't change, but an alternate reality where classic wow/classic TBC doesn't/never exist.

Would SL be rushing 9.1 out faster without TBC to fall on? Would we be talking about pulling the plug on WoW entirely without classic WoW/Classic TBC sub #'s propping up BFA and now SL like a WoW version of weekend at bernie's raid?

How dire would things in the WoW community feel today if classic WoW didn't exist? Because i don't see any love for SL outside of this forum, even talieson was streaming FF14 instead of WoW recently and preach was too.

Things in SL are no doubt really bad currently, we all know why, but how bad would things seem without classic existing?

Personally, i feel like Ion and a lot of the upper team would be out of a job and they'd be taking WoW into maintenance mode with 10.0

[erifwodahs]

This is purely a speculation thread, do not attack each other please. We can agree to disagree without mud slinging... now

While discussing retail and classic I had a speculative idea... Imagine an alternate reality where BFA and SL have unfolded exactly as they have, because that wouldn't change, but an alternate reality where classic wow/classic TBC doesn't/never exist.

Would SL be rushing 9.1 out faster without TBC to fall on? Would we be talking about pulling the plug on WoW entirely without classic WoW/Classic TBC sub #'s propping up BFA and now SL like a WoW version of weekend at bernie's raid?

How dire would things in the WoW community feel today if classic WoW didn't exist? Because i don't see any love for SL outside of this forum, even talieson was streaming FF14 instead of WoW recently and preach was too.

Things in SL are no doubt really bad currently, we all know why, but how bad would things seem without classic existing?

Personally, i feel like Ion and a lot of the upper team would be out of a job and they'd be taking WoW into maintenance mode with 10.0

It would be fine. I don't know many people who went into TBC with intention to do anything meaningful there.
SL is on drought. It's a good time to try the FF out for people who have not done it.

Another masked up "WoW is dead" thread.

[Sondrelk]

Without Classic the most noticeable thing htat would have happened would be that Classic Nostalgia was very real, with even more players claiming that Classic-WotLK was perfect and that Blizzard should just let players play that instead since it clearly would be so much better.

On a more serious note though I think that the game likely would have suffered in the sense that without empirical data on what worked in LCassic with the benefit of both hindsight and actual gameplay the edvelopers would have less content added in Retail that emulates good aspects of Classic that got pruned when WoW became more of an Action RPG back in MoP.

[Razion]

Personally without Classic I'd probably have leveled more new characters through Exile's Reach and Chromie Time right about now. Torghast still would be the worst, though. Classic doesn't keep me subbed personally any longer, but I will opt for playing Classic if I have sub and am sick of Retail at a given moment.

What we know about Classic in terms of numbers is that the numbers start pretty high when a new Classic variant gets released and then they dip in things like Twitch and in total population later -- like in dead time like now. Instead of saying Classic is stemming the blood I think it's more like Retail being weak tends to hurt Classic, if anything. I feel like people playing Retail and still have time may jump into Classic for a bit, but unless people are subbing for Classic exclusively they aren't as likely to dip into Retail -- so when retail does badly, I think it reflects worse on Classic when Retail does bad, than when Classic dies down it having as much impact on Retail.

That said, saying these people would be out of a job currently is pretty hyperbolic. Other WoW mobile projects are ongoing atm, so at worst they'd probably move to one of those or another title like Hearthstone or HotS or something. In terms of sub numbers we haven't gotten doom-saying graphs like that in a long time to estimate subs for SL. "Maintenance mode" is something I think only happens when things are like super bad like WoD was. Like, Torghast is bad, but it isn't keeping people trapped in a Garrison with nothing else to do levels of bad. Well, I guess if I were being more cynical there is nothing to do right now too. But, it's not really the fault of one system like it was in WoD. Content just ran out. For me, it was because dungeons reduced the amount of gear in them for M+. That kinda killed any desire I had to gear up, so when I sit around thinking there's nothing to do, it's from that angle. I'd probably also put that the Vault is less compelling than the weekly Chest, but that's more a feel thing. On paper the Vault is better, but because of the loss to M+ it doesn't seem fun to even try. So, there's not really much to do in SL personally. I enjoyed farming pvp gear initially in early progression, but feeling hard stopped by M+ drops was not something I felt like wasting my time with.

[Greyvax]

Clearly it would have no effect.

Looking at history, they have no problem stretching out patches for 14 months (look at 5.4 and 6.2)

[VinceVega]

This is purely a speculation thread, do not attack each other please. We can agree to disagree without mud slinging... now

While discussing retail and classic I had a speculative idea... Imagine an alternate reality where BFA and SL have unfolded exactly as they have, because that wouldn't change, but an alternate reality where classic wow/classic TBC doesn't/never exist.

Would SL be rushing 9.1 out faster without TBC to fall on? Would we be talking about pulling the plug on WoW entirely without classic WoW/Classic TBC sub #'s propping up BFA and now SL like a WoW version of weekend at bernie's raid?

How dire would things in the WoW community feel today if classic WoW didn't exist? Because i don't see any love for SL outside of this forum, even talieson was streaming FF14 instead of WoW recently and preach was too.

Things in SL are no doubt really bad currently, we all know why, but how bad would things seem without classic existing?

Personally, i feel like Ion and a lot of the upper team would be out of a job and they'd be taking WoW into maintenance mode with 10.0

I think without classic, retail would have more players.

Me for example. I like both. I like TBC more as i have found out recently. And i met a bunch of people who say the same.

Overall without classic there would be less players. That is a given. But i don't think wow would be dead. Retail still has a huge plyerbase. More than enough to justifie the development cost. Of that i am sure.

[Kokolums]

The truth is that people complained about the AP grind but without it people complain they are super bored and quit.

[CaptRik]

I think you only see "negative" posts on forums because, in general, people are inclined to post those rather than posting positives - not saying SL should be seen as a positive, just saying you cannot compare post counts as an indicator.

That being said, I don't think we'll ever talk about WoW dying in a serious fashion before Blizz pull the plug. There will always be 1-2 million people who will never not buy the expansion and play, and probably a few million more that will surge on around major patch times then drop away again. Those numbers don't feel to me like they are dwindling.

I personally feel there's very little correlation of Classic populations to Retail - they are different audiences

[Azerate]

Things in SL are no doubt really bad currently, we all know why, but how bad would things seem without classic existing?

Personally, i feel like Ion and a lot of the upper team would be out of a job and they'd be taking WoW into maintenance mode with 10.0

Oh really? How is SL bad exactly? The more or less unanimously well liked expansion? The best selling one ever released?

People are playing other things and taking breaks because the patch has been out for a little bit too long. Next patch not getting released soon enough does not mean the content of the previous patch is bad, in fact the common consensus is the content was pretty good, even the usual critics agree. I don't understand the mental leap that you are trying to push here.

If classic wasn't there Blizzard would have made less money because there's been some people who subbed for a while just to relive the nostalgia, but otherwise it probably wouldn't affect the main game too much.

[Fiacla]

Ah neat another FFXIV astroturf thread

Tell me, if it's "such a good game" why do you come to WoW forums and repeatedly tell us how we should be playing FFXIV instead?

Something something 41% something something.

[justandulas]

Ah neat another FFXIV astroturf thread

Tell me, if it's "such a good game" why do you come to WoW forums and repeatedly tell us how we should be playing FFXIV instead?

Something something 41% something something.

Who the hell brought up ff14 besides you? Obvious troll is obvious

Personally, I don’t play ff14 over it’s art style and I’m open about that. But that’s a subjective complaint about a game that has absolutely 0 to do with this post

[Fiacla]

How dire would things in the WoW community feel today if classic WoW didn't exist? Because i don't see any love for SL outside of this forum, even talieson was streaming FF14 instead of WoW recently and preach was too.

You did right there ^

Not very bright.

[Roserray]

I can't imagine it, I think it's not profitable for anyone

[Azerate]

Ah neat another FFXIV astroturf thread

Tell me, if it's "such a good game" why do you come to WoW forums and repeatedly tell us how we should be playing FFXIV instead?

Something something 41% something something.

Nah, that's just a typical Classic Andy who thinks everyone is playing Classic and that's the only reason why wow still makes any money

[justandulas]

You did right there ^

Not very bright.

My point there was to point out the biggest WoW supporters are preferring to play other titles. Not to give ff14 props

Nowhere am I trying to boost that game, and I’ve been open that I don’t play it for reasons

I mentioned it briefly only to point out that even the WoW streamers are playing other titles

[Kolvarg]

Don't think it would be dire at all, I think you're hugely blowing it out of proportion.

Classic for sure has helped increase and stabilize the population, but it was quite likely already getting pretty stable with fairly slow average decline over time.

Yeah, the game is not in a great state at the moment, and 9.1 is taking way too long, but for a lot of people that's not a huge issue and they'll either continue playing (leveling alts, farming mounts, etc), unsubscribe and re-subscribe later, or simply they would have unsubscribed a few months after checking the new expansion anyway. WoW has survived far worse in the past without any visible effect in the trend, I'm convinced it could easily survive without Classic for likely another decade or two - or really indefinitely, really. Pretty much until they figure they can make more money with a new MMO title instead of WoW expansions.

I do think that without TBCC they would be far more pressed to rush out 9.1 in a less polished state, which imo would be worse, so there's that.

The truth is that people complained about the AP grind but without it people complain they are super bored and quit.

I'm sure it is the missing AP grind, and not at all the longest wait by a large margin for the first major patch of any WoW expansion.

[justandulas]

Nah, that's just a typical Classic Andy who thinks everyone is playing Classic and that's the only reason why wow still makes any money

I’d argue tbc has more players currently than retail, and I argued that classic had more players during its early period than BfA

Both of those are more or less facts that we can’t prove either way, but yes I do believe classic has been saving retail ever since it was announced

Coming off the dreadful bfa, with moral at an all time low, they delivered SL which is equally disliked as bfa but for different reasons

Without classic around, I do think WoW would be on life support currently as SL is more or less a lost cause at this point. 9.1 is too little and too late to save it, imho

That said, this is a discussion and if we agree to disagree that’s ok with me

Let’s just keep the name calling, and insults out of this

[Appelgren]

Who the hell brought up ff14 besides you? Obvious troll is obvious

Personally, I don’t play ff14 over it’s art style and I’m open about that. But that’s a subjective complaint about a game that has absolutely 0 to do with this post

Lol... are you even for real? You literally mentioned it in your thread start. Wow.. this is a new level...

[McNeil]

Its hard to tell. My guess is that Classic and its patches help out during droughts for retail, so without Classic they would either release retail patches faster or release more store mounts to make up for lost revenue. I also think that WoW in general would be a lot less popular and more people would move on to other things. Classic has a lot of players who aren’t interested in retail in the slightest and would rather play something else.

[justandulas]

Lol... did you read OP? It literally says FF14 in there. Do people even read the first post when jumping in and starting their fighting?

Saying the biggest WoW streamers are streaming X game, is not the same thing as a pro ff14 puff piece thread.

It was to point out even the big WoW guys are playing other things over SL shortcomings

Don’t be like that troll and act like I posted a pro ff14 thread, when I’m not particular a fan of it