Flying really does make the world lose any sense of danger

[Mosotti]

The worst thing about flying is that you can’t avoid it since it automatically replaces the ground mount at level 70. If only Blizzard would replace that with a system that makes flying optional and puts it behind a pay wall…

[Prag]

Without redesigning the outdoor areas, it would just kill any sense of reward or ROI if I had to kill the same 100 mobs to get to the objective.

Did its implementation deteriorate engagement with the world? Absolutely.

Can it be fixed without a near-complete redesign? Nope.

If they were to suddenly just remove flying outside of the areas it’s required for dailies (or add flight paths to O’grila for example), I’d just not explore or spend the time on quests in areas dense with irrelevant mobs.

[Kralljin]

The whole "but you can skip content!" argument (and i use that term lightly) is not based in reality - over a days play, flying vs horse might help me avoid MAYBE one combat encounter - MAYBE one.

I think that's a massive generalization, i want to see you ride right through super mob dense areas such as Andorhal on a level appropriate character and only add a single mob, not to mention that the risk of dismounting due to daze is also real.

And that even puts aside that you literally do not have to think about avoiding any mobs because they will never ever attack when you're flying
So even if you manage to avoid mobs on your ground mount, you actively had to dodge them and not just fly towards your goal without thinking.

Be real, in certain areas, flying is a huge boon.
You need to place some bomb in the middle of Legion Hold?
Just fly over the entire field, place the bomb, fly away.

Need to kill some mobs on the Terrace at BT?
Don't walk up there manually where you have to avoid Fel Orc / Blood elf guards, just fly over them, land at a safe spot, pull the mob(s) you want to kill, mount up and avoid all problems.

The worst thing about flying is that you can’t avoid it since it automatically replaces the ground mount at level 70.

Considering not everybody has 5k Gold, the ground mount is still relevant because it's faster than the slow rider, which is only 60%.

I also think that 280% was way too fucking fast in hindsight, with the 60% slow rider, you at least still use some features such as the flightmaster, once you have epic flying, you pretty only use it if you have to go AFK on a flight.

[Prag]

I also think that 280% was way too fucking fast in hindsight, with the 60% slow rider, you at least still use some features such as the flightmaster, once you have epic flying, you pretty only use it if you have to go AFK on a flight.

Absolutely agreed. Outlands isn’t that big. No idea why they felt like nearly tripling Epic riding was needed. Even at 120% it would have been fast enough to warrant intra-zone travel but slow enough to use an FP for crossing zones.

[Thage]

Outside of reaching the Tempest Keep dungeons and raid, and a number of daily hubs and a world boss, 99% of the game requires no flying. In many cases, with only the base flight training (which, IIRC, is 60% speed in BC Classic like it was in BC), it's actually very easy to trick your brain into thinking your 100% speed ground mount is superior for commuting even though factually the 60% flyer is superior in almost every case thanks to being able to beeline. In some zones, it's still more efficient to use your ground mount so you don't risk death by falling damage if you fly too close to a kaliri, other-faction aerial scout, or Legion cannon.

I bring all of this up because there is absolutely nothing stopping you from just sticking with your ground mount in BC, if all you want is the feeling of 'danger' (although by the time you're fully kitted up in t4, I beg the question of how dangerous the world is when the biggest threat it poses is dismounting you and making you waste a few seconds deleting whatever just dazed you). Otherwise, I'd recommend hanging out around the PvP objectives like the towers in Hellfire and Auchindoun or Halaa in Nagrand if you want to get your gank on since those are reliable PvP hotspots.

[Koward]

OP is right of course, but explaining that to the average player is like explaining to a dog why it shouldn't eat chocolate.

[Zaqwert]

Without redesigning the outdoor areas, it would just kill any sense of reward or ROI if I had to kill the same 100 mobs to get to the objective.

Did its implementation deteriorate engagement with the world? Absolutely.

Can it be fixed without a near-complete redesign? Nope.

If they were to suddenly just remove flying outside of the areas it’s required for dailies (or add flight paths to O’grila for example), I’d just not explore or spend the time on quests in areas dense with irrelevant mobs.

I think your post is a good way of putting it.

I'm not against flying period. I'm not advocating removing it or anything crazy.

What I'm saying is, now with the gift of hindsight and having replayed vanilla classic and tbc classic, the way they implemented flying was not particularly well done and came with a ton of unintended consequences.

It's water under the bridge now, but I just find it interesting to think about how they could have implemented a flying system that's superior to what we ended up with.

[anon5123]

So should we remove flight paths too, OP? After all, flying makes the world lose any sense of danger

[Lahis]

Maybe instead of just dinging 70 they could have also required you beat a few key quest lines in both of those zones to unlock it first. After you've "completed" all the zon

That's how Pathfinder works on retail, and god how people moan about it requiring effort.

[Queendom]

I don't need any sense of danger in this game. I'm here to have fun.
Try playing The Binding of Isaac and similiar roguelikes if you want sense of danger.

[Thornquist]

"Don't like it, don't use it" is the worst argument ever.

If Blizzard added a optional 'insta kill' button, it would have ruined the content. But everyone would have used it.

[Utrrabbit]

I get what you're saying, but if you do most of the quests in every zone you ding 70 before you ever set foot in Netherstorm or Shadowmoon Valley.

Maybe instead of just dinging 70 they could have also required you beat a few key quest lines in both of those zones to unlock it first. After you've "completed" all the zon

It's just kinda sad that Shadowmoon Valley is built as this extremely intimidating and hostile zone but flying trivializes all of it.

You are level 70. Leveling quests do not matter.

Perhaps stop dungeon cleaving and actually quest.

If you hit 70 before reaching shadowmoon or netherstorm it means you were dungeon spamming. Period. Do not complain when you are the one who did it.

[Ealyssa]

Land in the middle of their fortress, kill the boss, fly out.

Who forced you to fly over them ?

Or is this thread more like "I hate what others than me are doing" ? Which is directly pathetic. You do you, they do them. You don't like flying then DONT FUCKING FLY.

[Utrrabbit]

OP is right of course, but explaining that to the average player is like explaining to a dog why it shouldn't eat chocolate.

The OP is not right. They are the opposite.

[Kralljin]

That's how Pathfinder works on retail, and god how people moan about it requiring effort.

I think a part of the problem is that Blizzard flatout did not allow you to work on Pathfinder until a given patch.

It's like
"Patch X allows flying!"
"But only after you've done X days of dailies"

So, not only had you to wait 8-10 months for flying, but then also had to go through some daily rep grind for 1-2 weeks in order to unlock flying, which you could not work on until the patch is released.

I also believe that pathfinder is just a halfassed solution, flying is just one of those things that are in the game or not, it's okay to disable it in some zones, but continously ignoring why one can fly in the majority of zones but somehow not in the [currently relevant ones] is silly.

So should we remove flight paths too, OP? After all, flying makes the world lose any sense of danger

"Maybe we should eat less meat"
"How about stop eating at all!"

Putting aside that this topic isn't about pitching a change (let alone in TBC Classic, where such a change would flat out never happen) but more the OP agreeing with a criticism towards a feature introduced in TBC.

If you hit 70 before reaching shadowmoon or netherstorm it means you were dungeon spamming. Period. Do not complain when you are the one who did it.

I only did a handful of dungeons on my Hunter (only once for quests) and managed to hit 70 before completing any major quests in SMV.
Flying, at least the slow one, is hardly a big deal in Netherstorm, because it's overall a pretty wide zone and you can avoid a lot of enemy camps.
Skipping between those major platform is neat, but overall minor bonus, after all, you only move at 60% speed instead of 100%.

In SMV however, it's a big deal, there are a ton of quests where you need to do some shit right in the middle of some enemy encampment.

And that's not even addressing the fact that questing at cap yields a ton of gold and is also necessary for attunements.
The guy which drops the item needed for the Shattered Halls key is located right in the middle of some enemy camp.

[kail]

280% with riding crop feels like a cheat mode I dumped a lot of gold to access. Obviously going to use it but it's too high of a jump from the 60%.

So should we remove flight paths too, OP? After all, flying makes the world lose any sense of danger

Bad comparison.

[DeltrusDisc]

So don't fly. Keep your immersion and sense of danger.


Of course, like everyone who whines about flying, you won't do this.

To be remotely competitive, you can't do this.

[kail]

You are level 70. Leveling quests do not matter.

Perhaps stop dungeon cleaving and actually quest.

If you hit 70 before reaching shadowmoon or netherstorm it means you were dungeon spamming. Period. Do not complain when you are the one who did it.

Did dungeons for the quests alone, hit 70 3-4 quests into netherstorm.

[Ringthane]

I'm so glad we get to have yet another 390 page thread about flying. We haven't had one of those in about... thirty-eight minutes?

[Altariaz]

TBC is good, but I completely agree that flying should not be in the game. For one thing, flying disconnects the player from the world, and hence, to a notable degree, the community. That undermines the MMORPG nature of the game. TBC would be improved if they removed flying (and, obviously, made other necessary adjustments).