What happens to Chromie Time in a new expansion?

[lolmmofuture]

I'm really glad I'm not the only one that sees this as a mess, no matter what they decide to do with it. I'm hoping they can come to some sort of set-and-forget system that will run this system without much maintenance. If managing and balancing Chromie Time eats up resources causing further delays in new content, (however minor it may be) then I think we will all be upset.

i honestly believe wow is a lost cause, no matter what they do, it will always be a mess unless they do a full restart. but that will obviously not happen, so the cycle wil just keep on repeating itself with people just regurgitating the same things and problems over and over again untill a differnet mmo, if at all, takes over (my bet is on league of legends mmo)

[Farora]

i honestly believe wow is a lost cause, no matter what they do, it will always be a mess unless they do a full restart. but that will obviously not happen, so the cycle wil just keep on repeating itself with people just regurgitating the same things and problems over and over again untill a differnet mmo, if at all, takes over (my bet is on league of legends mmo)

I will be waiting on a vanilla Wow like MMORPG (probably forever).

[Dancaris]

Because they understand that many players don't like the every expansion reset and want to preserve some form of progression that goes over multiple expansions.

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Because they understand that there are players who like the continuation of levels each expansion. You and others cling so hard to what you want that you do not acknowledge that there are players who feel that a reset after each expansion kills progression. There should be SOME form of progression that goes on over several expansions.

Now you say that you know that devs understand and want? How ironic. and who is arrogant now?
My bet - its squish to 50 every prepatch and we level to 60 every new expansion.

[rrayy]

Now you say that you know that devs understand and want? How ironic. and who is arrogant now?
My bet - its squish to 50 every prepatch and we level to 60 every new expansion.

I'm not arrogant. I just remember that they alluded to it when they announced the first level squish. This isn't hard to know if you actually listen to everything they say and not just what you want to hear.

My bet is you will be wrong. They will either adjust chromie time to 10-60 or keep chromie time at 10-50, Shaodwlands at 50-60 and new expansion at 70. I would rather have the former and not the latter, but either way is better than completely killing progression by immediately resetting everyone to 50 again.

[Dancaris]

I'm not arrogant. I just remember that they alluded to it when they did the first level squish.

And you have a source of that? Or just mental gymnastics?

[hipolnalrt]

I'm not arrogant. I just remember that they alluded to it when they did the first level squish. This isn't hard to know if you actually listen to everything they say and not just what you want to hear.

My bet is you will be wrong. They will either adjust chromie time to 10-60 or keep chromie time at 10-50, Shaodwlands at 50-60 and new expansion at 70. I would rather have the former and not the latter, but either way is better than completely killing progression by immediately resetting everyone to 50 again.

I tend to agree with you. I don't like the idea of a squish every expansion. Would 'feel' wrong. However, it would make for an easier way to manage Chromie Time.

I just don't like that the options are:

1) Kill the 'feeling' of progression.
2) Rebalance pre-current leveling every expansion. Or
3) Add more barriers to new players until reaching current content.

[rrayy]

I tend to agree with you. I don't like the idea of a squish every expansion. Would 'feel' wrong. However, it would make for an easier way to manage Chromie Time.

I just don't like that the options are:

1) Kill the 'feeling' of progression.
2) Rebalance pre-current leveling every expansion. Or
3) Add more barriers to new players until reaching current content.

But is it really a barrier if you re-tool Shadowlands leveling to continue at the same speed & pace scale as chromie time? That means only having to re-scale Shadowlands and original chromie time can stay as is.

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And you have a source of that? Or just mental gymnastics?

it was in their Blizzcon announcement as part of their reasoning for the level squish. They acknowledeged that they know people like increasing their level number.

[hipolnalrt]

But is it really a barrier if you re-tool Shadowlands leveling to continue at the same speed & pace scale as chromie time? That means only having to re-scale Shadowlands and original chromie time can stay as is.

If we as players level to 70 in the next expansion, then Chromie Time (and Shadowlands) will have to scale 1-60, instead of 1-50. That's going to take a re-scale.

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Or - if they keep Shadowlands 50-60. Then new players will have to level through 2 expansions before hitting current content. They wanted to avoid that and that's why they added Chromie Time.

[Stickiler]

it was in their Blizzcon announcement as part of their reasoning for the level squish. They acknowledeged that they know people like increasing their level number.

It was extremely vague though, and doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion you drew. I definitely heard it as "You'll always level during an expansion", but that says nothing about the process between expansions though.

My bet would be Shadowlands joining 10-50, as that requires the fewest changes to the overall system.

[Surfacin9]

Didn't they already announce these plans? For new players 1-10 new island, 10-50 previous expansion (i.e. SL), 50-60 current expansion. Existing players can choose their 1-10 and 10-50. This does seem pretty logical and streamlined without the need to increase the level cap again and again and either rescale everything else or make us go through several expansions to level once again.

[Garymorilix]

Because they understand that many players don't like the every expansion reset and want to preserve some form of progression that goes over multiple expansions.

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Because they understand that there are players who like the continuation of levels each expansion. You and others cling so hard to what you want that you do not acknowledge that there are players who feel that a reset after each expansion kills progression. There should be SOME form of progression that goes on over several expansions.

Who are these "players"?
You're pointing at a non-descript group of people who do not exist just to feel like you have any ground to stand on.

What the reality is is that Blizzard spent a tremendous amount of time coming up with Chromie-time (and the scaling world) which they set up in a way that future expansion can easily be added to it once they become legacy.
This is what reality is.
It is in the game right now.

I don't care how you feel. I prefer the game to have a long-term solution to level-bloat rather than cater to your feelings.

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Didn't they already announce these plans? For new players 1-10 new island, 10-50 previous expansion (i.e. SL), 50-60 current expansion. Existing players can choose their 1-10 and 10-50. This does seem pretty logical and streamlined without the need to increase the level cap again and again and either rescale everything else or make us go through several expansions to level once again.

This is exactly it.

[rrayy]

Who are these "players"?
You're pointing at a non-descript group of people who do not exist just to feel like you have any ground to stand on.

What the reality is is that Blizzard spent a tremendous amount of time coming up with Chromie-time (and the scaling world) which they set up in a way that future expansion can easily be added to it once they become legacy.
This is what reality is.
It is in the game right now.

I don't care how you feel. I prefer the game to have a long-term solution to level-bloat rather than cater to your feelings.

So you are selfish. Got it.

Also, Blizzard can do whatever they want. We have already come up with other solutions. They use what is already in the gane. You don't want to hear it because you are the only one who matters and the game should only cater to you.

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Didn't they already announce these plans? For new players 1-10 new island, 10-50 previous expansion (i.e. SL), 50-60 current expansion. Existing players can choose their 1-10 and 10-50. This does seem pretty logical and streamlined without the need to increase the level cap again and again and either rescale everything else or make us go through several expansions to level once again.

NO they did not. THey only announced that for Shadowlands. They haven't said anything about future expansions. And as has been shown, there is a way to make it 10-60 by only re-scaling Shadowlands without completely killing progression by resetting everyone every expansion.

People are projecting what they want into Blizzard saying it which they have not said anything,

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It was extremely vague though, and doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion you drew. I definitely heard it as "You'll always level during an expansion", but that says nothing about the process between expansions though.

My bet would be Shadowlands joining 10-50, as that requires the fewest changes to the overall system.

Doesn't matter that it was vague. It shows they have an understanding of that mentality which was my entire point.

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If we as players level to 70 in the next expansion, then Chromie Time (and Shadowlands) will have to scale 1-60, instead of 1-50. That's going to take a re-scale.

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Or - if they keep Shadowlands 50-60. Then new players will have to level through 2 expansions before hitting current content. They wanted to avoid that and that's why they added Chromie Time.

NO, they only wanted to make things easier. The never said anything about avoiding leveing throgh 2 expansions because they haven't talked aobut anything beyond Shadowlands.

ANd no they won't have to rescale 10-60. They could do a re-scale of Shadowlands based on the scale on Chromie time. That means 50-60 will continue the pace set by chromie time. Far less xp required to achieve a level and more exp on gains. You do not have to touch 10-50 at all. They are just extending the scale started by Chromie Time.

[Moozart]

More than likely option number 2. With a change - BFA drops down to be included in Chromie time (making the choice WotLK/Cata/Pandaria/Draenor/Legion/BFA) and SL becomes the new default 10-60 xpac for 'new' players (and an option always for players who already have a max level toon).

Blizz likely already made the scaling work as long as it needs to - Quests aren't giving a set XP anymore so much as a sliding scale based on level. Same with mob HP/attack. Adding new levels doesn't mess that up much. and adding another 1-2hours of questing to get from 1-60 instead of 1-50 to start the current/new Xpac isn't really that big of an ask...

I dont want to imagine The Maw intro with level 10 skills and abilities.

[Ryzeth]

Squishing to 50 every new expansion, and then leveling to 60, allows them to continue the trend of giving players the feeling like they're actually making progress with levels, by squishing down the levels that you get new toys.

I wouldn't be averse to them doing that going forwards. I hate how GW2/ESO does it where new expansions just introduce new content without actually really having anything new to work towards. Horizontal scaling games are horrible (much as I love both of those games) for "MMO player" retention.

[rrayy]

Squishing to 50 every new expansion, and then leveling to 60, allows them to continue the trend of giving players the feeling like they're actually making progress with levels, by squishing down the levels that you get new toys.

I wouldn't be averse to them doing that going forwards. I hate how GW2/ESO does it where new expansions just introduce new content without actually really having anything new to work towards. Horizontal scaling games are horrible (much as I love both of those games) for "MMO player" retention.

But it kills all progression beyond that as all the work you put in an expansio0n disappears as you are right back at 50 the next expansion. It encourages skipping entire expansions. There is absolutely no point to level to 60 if you are going to be right back at 60.

[Ryzeth]

But it kills all progression beyond that as all the work you put in an expansio0n disappears as you are right back at 50 the next expansion. It encourages skipping entire expansions. There is absolutely no point to level to 60 if you are going to be right back at 60.

People have these things called opinions. You don't have to comment on and nitpick every single post in the thread mate.

I strictly said I wouldn't be against it; I never said they should.

[btlcryct]

But it kills all progression beyond that as all the work you put in an expansio0n disappears as you are right back at 50 the next expansion. It encourages skipping entire expansions. There is absolutely no point to level to 60 if you are going to be right back at 60.

You keep mentioning progression being invalidated from leveling between expansions, but that's never been a thing. What did it matter for Cata that I leveled from 70-80 in LK? Heck WoW has never really had any progression that carried over from one expansion to the next. By your logic, people should've quit in droves when their Sunwell gear was replaced by greens in LK. I mean, didn't that invalidate their raiding progression? Leveling at this point is just 10-20 hours worth of time to get to the new lax level, be it 60 or 100. This is even more true now with mobs scaling to your level. Is there really any difference during leveling if you're 55 or 95, when the mobs are the same level as you?

Just my opinion, but making it so when a new expansion comes out, the previous one becomes a CT option and we go back to 50 to re-level to 60 makes the most sense. To me the only other options are:

- The next expansion is 60-70, then 70-80, 80-90, etc. This brings us back to the issue the squish resolved where new players/alts, have to go through numerous expansions worth of content to make it to max level. To me, going from 60 back to 50 at the end of the expansion is less jarring than in 6-8 years going from 100 back to 50.
- The new expansion is 60-70, etc. and CT is adjusted so the cap is the same as the previous expansion's. This means CT would be 10-90 by the time we get to whatever expansion the new cap would be 100. This would be a massive undertaking as you'd have to stretch things like XP out so much to make it so you could level just in something like Outlands from 10-90. They'd basically have to make it so you do 3-4 quests per level. This to me would seem weird and even more so drive home the point that the level next to my portrait is meaningless, since you could do some hubs in Outland, Zangamarsh comes to mind, and level 2-3 times in the 30 seconds it takes you to turn in the 8-12 quests you have at once.

And for you point of skipping entire expansions, that's the whole point of CT. If I don't want to do BFA anymore, I now have that option. CT for me has been one of the best things added to the game. Rather than being stuck on rails to go Vanilla>BC>LK>Cata>MoP>WoD>Legion>BFA>SL, I can choose to do 1-10 either on the isle or a racial starter zone, then just choose where I want to go at that time and not care about expansions I don't feel like seeing. I've been playing since the end of Vanilla, November 2006, and I've leveled 4-5 toons since 9.0 just because it's been nice to see more of a storyline rather than oops, I hit 60, now I have to go to Outland, or suffer a severe XP penalty.

[Unholyground]

The first mistake that you made was assuming it's going to increase 10 levels, I actually hope they grow the balls and not increase the level cap for once because we still have to grind our power out anyway it's absolutely pointless to have levels now when you have another alternative progression system for every character/expansion.

[rrayy]

You keep mentioning progression being invalidated from leveling between expansions, but that's never been a thing. What did it matter for Cata that I leveled from 70-80 in LK? Heck WoW has never really had any progression that carried over from one expansion to the next. By your logic, people should've quit in droves when their Sunwell gear was replaced by greens in LK. I mean, didn't that invalidate their raiding progression? Leveling at this point is just 10-20 hours worth of time to get to the new lax level, be it 60 or 100. This is even more true now with mobs scaling to your level. Is there really any difference during leveling if you're 55 or 95, when the mobs are the same level as you?

Yes it has and that is level #. Your gear was also a continuing progression. Those green in LK were more powerful than the Sunwell raid gear. Hence progression. You continued to increase your power and continued to increase your level #.

Just my opinion, but making it so when a new expansion comes out, the previous one becomes a CT option and we go back to 50 to re-level to 60 makes the most sense. To me the only other options are:

- The next expansion is 60-70, then 70-80, 80-90, etc. This brings us back to the issue the squish resolved where new players/alts, have to go through numerous expansions worth of content to make it to max level. To me, going from 60 back to 50 at the end of the expansion is less jarring than in 6-8 years going from 100 back to 50.
- The new expansion is 60-70, etc. and CT is adjusted so the cap is the same as the previous expansion's. This means CT would be 10-90 by the time we get to whatever expansion the new cap would be 100. This would be a massive undertaking as you'd have to stretch things like XP out so much to make it so you could level just in something like Outlands from 10-90. They'd basically have to make it so you do 3-4 quests per level. This to me would seem weird and even more so drive home the point that the level next to my portrait is meaningless, since you could do some hubs in Outland, Zangamarsh comes to mind, and level 2-3 times in the 30 seconds it takes you to turn in the 8-12 quests you have at once.

You missed one and the one that kills this entire argument:

- Shadowlands continue the CT scale from 50-60. You can already see the numbers scale as you go from 1-60. Just have Shadowlands continue that scale from 50-60, gear, XP required, and XP gain.

And for you point of skipping entire expansions, that's the whole point of CT. If I don't want to do BFA anymore, I now have that option. CT for me has been one of the best things added to the game. Rather than being stuck on rails to go Vanilla>BC>LK>Cata>MoP>WoD>Legion>BFA>SL, I can choose to do 1-10 either on the isle or a racial starter zone, then just choose where I want to go at that time and not care about expansions I don't feel like seeing. I've been playing since the end of Vanilla, November 2006, and I've leveled 4-5 toons since 9.0 just because it's been nice to see more of a storyline rather than oops, I hit 60, now I have to go to Outland, or suffer a severe XP penalty.

You misunderstand. What I mean is you should have to level in each expansion once, which just about everyone has. Resetting 50 would allow someone now to completely skip it without ever setting foot in it. That is the real point of CT. You have already done it once, you don't have to do it again if you do not want.

AS it is, It is very bad to level to 60 only for Blizzard to say "ALl that work you did? Well kiss it goodbye because we are putting you right back at 50 again. No content should ever be made pointless.

[btlcryct]

Yes it has and that is level #. Your gear was also a continuing progression. Those green in LK were more powerful than the Sunwell raid gear. Hence progression. You continued to increase your power and continued to increase your level #.

But again, what is the level but a number. With mob scaling, does it really make a difference if that boar you're fighting is level 10 or 90? I'm talking strictly for the leveling process, which you said being squished to level 50 every time would be invalidated.

You missed one and the one that kills this entire argument:

- Shadowlands continue the CT scale from 50-60. You can already see the numbers scale as you go from 1-60. Just have Shadowlands continue that scale from 50-60, gear, XP required, and XP gain.

Unless I'm not understanding what you're saying, it would still fall under a combination of both of my points. Currently we have:

Vanilla - 10-50
BC - 10-50
LK - 10-50
Cata - 10-50
MoP - 10-50
WoD - 10-50
Legion - 10-50
BFA - 10-50
SL - 50-60

I didn't include 1-10 since you can't activate CT until level 10. I think, and maybe this is where I am misunderstanding you, what you're saying is with 10.0 you would make SL 10-60. Then with 11.0, that would make 10.0's expansion worth of CT go 10-70, all the while leaving Vanilla to BFA as 10-50. If so, then you still run into the issue in my 1st point, that by the time we get to 100 again in 13.0 (assuming 10 levels per expansion and them not doing another Cata/MoP of only 5 levels), new players/alts would still need to go through 6 expansions worth of content to reach max level. Vanilla-BFA for 10-50, SL for 50-60, 10.0 for 60-70, 11.0 for 70-80, 12.0 for 80-90 and then finally 13.0 for 90-100. Either that, or just 12.0's content which would be CT'd to 10-90. That doesn't kill my argument, really. You're either forcing people to do 6 expansions, or slog through only 1. It also falls under the 2nd bullet that they would then have to stretch what was 80-90, so 10 levels, and make it into 80 levels worth of XP to cover 10-90.

You misunderstand. What I mean is you should have to level in each expansion once, which just about everyone has. Resetting 50 would allow someone now to completely skip it without ever setting foot in it. That is the real point of CT. You have already done it once, you don't have to do it again if you do not want.

AS it is, It is very bad to level to 60 only for Blizzard to say "ALl that work you did? Well kiss it goodbye because we are putting you right back at 50 again. No content should ever be made pointless.

I don't know of anyone that's either a new player completely, or a new alt, that has to go through each expansion once. Not since CT was added. Brand new players have to do the new isle from 1-10, and then go directly to BFA. Alts of players with a max toon can choose where to start and then where to go.

They added CT for a few reasons. The story throughout the years got disjointed since they weren't connected very well. Along with, it was getting to the point with level 120 and 6+ expansions to have to level through, it was daunting for new players, or people that had been away for years. We've had a few guildies come back in SL because the leveling was smoother and quicker to catch back up to the rest of us to do endgame stuff.

I will agree stuff shouldn't be made pointless, but that's been WoW forever. I mean, before CT, how many max level toons would you see in pre-current expansion zones, except maybe for PvP/ganking? It is a shame so much of the WoW world goes unused. With some of the tech, such as phasing I don't see why they couldn't have current level WQs or something throughout all of Azeroth instead of just the zones in the current expansion.

EDITED TO ADD: Realistically, everything we're doing in WoW is useless at the end of the day. One day, the servers will be shut down and everything we've done in-game will be for nothing. I just don't see it currently as an issue, because every expansion has done this. Once SL came out, everything I did in BFA didn't matter. Me leveling to 120 didn't matter, any gear I got didn't matter, etc. By leveling to 120 didn't mean I didn't have to level 50-60, or wouldn't have had to do 120-130 if they didn't do the squish. By getting raid in gear in BFA, didn't help me start ahead with gearing at 60 in SL. I guess I just see my level as an arbitrary number that doesn't matter much. To me it's more about the time I need to get to max level. Honestly, if the max level were even something as low as 10, or as high as 1,000 but both took say 20 hours to get to, what would it matter?