Steve Danuser wants to write WoW as a children's book:

[Pendragon]

Always targeting kids with this nonsense. Absolute insanity.

[GreenJesus]

Are we going to ignore that:
-Garrosh called Sylvanas bitch?
-Orcs were raping Draenei captive women?
-Demon Hunters have their eyes burned out?
-Forsaken were doing experiments on human beings?
-Thaddius was made as a patchwork from slaughtered women and children?
-Night Elves in Teldrassil were burned alive?

They changed the dialogue so that garrosh doesn't call her a bitch anymore. So -1

[Lochton]

"Steve wanted to explore how a dragon chooses their humanoid form with the short story involving Chromie and what it would mean for a male dragon to choose a female form. It is meant to show that the world of Azeroth has love and acceptance and an opportunity for people to see themselves represented in this world."

Love and acceptance in Azeroth, meanwhile Warcraft originated from Orcs and Humans battling it out with eachother over land and cultural differences.
What a fucking joke.
This guy is completely nuts and infected with social virtueing disease.

Uhm.. You do know the book is called "Folk and fairy tales of Azeroth", right?

It is just another way to create some side content for the vast game story. I mean, I've checked your previous topics, and I do not see you complain about the Traveler series, which is a children's book series and was made before that book. It does not mean the whole game to have a book of stories around other things than mainly the Horde and Alliance.

[Orby]

People forget this existed nearly a decade ago



As far as the inclusivity thing, I mean coming from Blizzard its hard to eat. But that aside there's nothing wrong with that. Children's tales are meant to teach children positive lessons. I like to think there's something for everyone in Warcraft.

[FelPlague]

I miss Metzen and Ghostcrawler

if this new "being PG thing" is something you think started with danasur, dont forget chris was the one who had the "my daughter said" speech, its not "the old guard being replaced" its "people getting with the fucking times."

And speaking the amount of people here that think being trans is "political" and politics dont belong is video games is... hilariously depressing.

[GreenJesus]

Of all the things you could complain about, this is silly. As someone who doesn't care about the whole "Representation" topic, I'd say there are more blatant examples of bad writing from the recent patch. Like Alleria not being anywhere in the Sylvanas Windrunner raid despite saying that she would be there to see her fall.

Well Ion said that sylvanas isn't dying in this raid so don't worry about it yet.

[david0925]

do we have a source/quote/link for what the OP posted?

[GreenJesus]

if this new "being PG thing" is something you think started with danasur, dont forget chris was the one who had the "my daughter said" speech, its not "the old guard being replaced" its "people getting with the fucking times."

And speaking the amount of people here that think being trans is "political" and politics dont belong is video games is... hilariously depressing.

Chrome is basicslly an immortal dragon. Why does he/she care about the gender of the temporary form she uses and can change at will? Dragons can't even breed anymore anyway so gender is irrelevant.

[darkoms]

Don't care much for lore but I love things like this because they make all the toxic people show their true colors. In a way it's kind of sad but on the plus side all you transphobes will now have to play a game with that one thing you hate in.

God, how stupid it is. I have not seen literally ANY comment here on Reddit or on social media in Warcraft groups where people express their hatred of transvestites. They expressed their thing to just two things:
1. The fact that Blizzard promotes such things only to please the LGBT community and most likely they themselves do not care about transvestites or gays, they just want these people to bring them money.
2. To retcon. None of the commenters shouted that they hated transvestites, but almost all of them referred to this https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Wor...ume_I_Issue_II and it was indicated that Chromie was a woman (funny, one of the especially gifted commentators on Reddit said that they never said she was a CIS woman, so this is not a retcon).
This is a huge problem in Western society now (I know, moderators, no real politics, but I have to say it). People are accused of transosofobi and homophobia for anything. Joanne Rowling was accused of transosophobia when she said that only women have periods (meaning real women). The world tennis champion (sorry, I forgot her name) was accused of being transphobic and kicked out of the sports association (or something) when she said it was unfair that trans women participate in raids and beat cis women because trans women still have there is a male physiology and they are stronger and more enduring. She even pointed out that these are not always truly trans women, they can be men who became women for a short time, easily won a lot of money and became men again. Do you think this is normal? I see two extremes in the world now. I see countries where gays and transvestites are beaten or killed (sometimes it is even allowed at the legislative level), where their activity is immediately suppressed. And I see the USA. A country in which everywhere, in every film and every game, there must now be gays and transvestites so that you are not accused of homophobia and transphobia. A country where you can't insult anyone other than white heterosexual men. As far as I have heard (it seems someone on this forum was talking about this, so I can not guarantee you the accuracy of the information) Madeleine Roux the author of books and stories on Warcraft, openly insulted white heterosexual men on her twitter and spoke about her hatred of them. And there were no consequences. No one accused her of heterophobia and white racism, no one blocked her account. But if she replaced at least ONE elems (for example, her statements would concern women or gays), she would simply be drowned in a wave of hatred. And do you think this is fair?



With regard to your specific statement (although many others say the same). There is nothing more dumb than calling people who just don't like retcones as toxic or transphobic, or when companies push such things into the game to make more money and please the LGBT community.

And I will not even talk about how stupid the plot of this story as a whole is. Chromie asks ONYXIA for advice? Is Alexstrasza personally leading the Visage Day? Doesn't she have other things to do? The very presence of such a stupid event as the Visage Day is a spit in the lore of dragons. Wrathion could take the form of a human when he was not even 1 year old. The red dragon in the War of the Ancients could turn into a tree. Malygos was transforming into a crystal beetle.

[MoanaLisa]

While I think Danuser is a waste and well out of his depth it's fair to point out that WoW is ESRB rated for teens. Kids, in other words.

[Syegfryed]

People forget this existed nearly a decade ago

yeah... i don't think this is canon in wow, so its pointless since it does not affect the main story/world.

Even the traveller series book, for children, did a decent job in worldbuilding as far i remember, but the premise was way different than "dragon rituals to assume mortal form"

[FelPlague]

Chrome is basicslly an immortal dragon. Why does he/she care about the gender of the temporary form she uses and can change at will? Dragons can't even breed anymore anyway so gender is irrelevant.

because she spends most of her life in that form.
Again why do you care about your body? compared to an ant you are basically immortal, so why dont you just get fat and wear rags and never bathe?

[GreenJesus]

because she spends most of her life in that form.
Again why do you care about your body? compared to an ant you are basically immortal, so why dont you just get fat and wear rags and never bathe?

I feel like using a dragon that pretends to be a female gnome using temporary magic as a good "trans" character will backfire.

[Orby]

yeah... i don't think this is canon in wow, so its pointless since it does not affect the main story/world.

Even the traveller series book, for children, did a decent job in worldbuilding as far i remember, but the premise was way different than "dragon rituals to assume mortal form"

Oh yes, I loved the Traveller series too. You are right. the world building especially expanding on other racial cultures was so good in those, something that I really want Blizzard themselves to explore with their own book like a chronicle book but just dedicated to races and cultures :P

Give me some in depth structure of dwarf politics and religion, as well as beliefs and class system... I love that sort of in depth world building.

[FelPlague]

transvestites. transvestites or gays, transvestites, gays and transvestites gays and transvestites

speaking you call them transvestites and gays over and over proves you literally don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
also people are literally saying this this thread "i dont want politics in my game, so trans people and gay people should not be in the game" that is literally transphobia and homophobia my dude, if you are really gunna say 'I DONT SEE ANY COMMENT HERE" maybe actually read the thread?

- - - Updated - - -

I feel like using a dragon that pretends to be a female gnome using temporary magic as a good "trans" character will backfire.

she does not pretend, she IS.
and its not temporary, they choose that form and they stick with it.

imagine saying this stuff to a real trans person, how about ya stop?

[darkoms]

speaking you call them transvestites and gays over and over proves you literally don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
also people are literally saying this this thread "i dont want politics in my game, so trans people and gay people should not be in the game" that is literally transphobia and homophobia my dude, if you are really gunna say 'I DONT SEE ANY COMMENT HERE" maybe actually read the thread?

- - - Updated - - -



she does not pretend, she IS.
and its not temporary, they choose that form and they stick with it.

imagine saying this stuff to a real trans person, how about ya stop?

Dude, I'm literally gay... And I meant not only this thread, but the MMO as a whole. And yes, I still only see hatred for Danuser and retcon, not transgenders.

This is why I hate this. Blizzard uses the LGBT community not out of sincerity, not out of tolerance, but simply so that sick warriors for social justice do not scream that Blizzard is homophobic and transophobic.

[Mehrunes]

Replacing 90s metalheads fantasy fans with current year pseudo-activist fantasy fans was a mistake. I maintain that the peak of it was removing the word 'bitch' so that kids, who don't play WoW let's face it, can enjoy this wholesome game where the main story revolves around globe-spanning war, genocide and the emptiness of free will in a deterministic universe.

You didn't even get to the best part in regard to that amazing decision. Because it's not that the game as a whole contains genocide and other darker subjects. You personally test a chemical weapon on primitive Murlocs just minding their own business whooping four quests later. And likely exterminate the local population in the process, judging by the text from the quest giver. Somehow that didn't phase the "team member playing WoW with his kid" (never mind that the age rating for WoW is 13+, which a helicopter parent that is also a dev should have been aware of).

[username993720]

"Steve wanted to explore how a dragon chooses their humanoid form with the short story involving Chromie and what it would mean for a male dragon to choose a female form. It is meant to show that the world of Azeroth has love and acceptance and an opportunity for people to see themselves represented in this world."

Love and acceptance in Azeroth, meanwhile Warcraft originated from Orcs and Humans battling it out with eachother over land and cultural differences.
What a fucking joke.
This guy is completely nuts and infected with social virtueing disease.

(if it infracts, just remove it)

I thought i was the only one here. It's WARcraft. Not LOVE and PEACEcraft.

Replacing 90s metalheads fantasy fans with current year pseudo-activist fantasy fans was a mistake. I maintain that the peak of it was removing the word 'bitch' so that kids, who don't play WoW let's face it, can enjoy this wholesome game where the main story revolves around globe-spanning war, genocide and the emptiness of free will in a deterministic universe.

I'm overjoyed.
Finally, somebody that understands me.
It was a bad decision. Anyone who says it didn't fit Garrosh is out of their mind.

"we think the word bitch is just too much for the children's, we want create a place where they can genocide and burn elves alive a safe-word environment"

Exactly!
Why is this taboo and the other aspects aren't?

Same... I look at what the Hearthstone people are doing like....

Hearthstone has always been goofy. WoW hasn't.

Personally, I adore Kosak for directly saying that Lei Shen is stronger than Arthas. The fanboys of this Darth Vader parody have finally stopped screaming that Arthas can one shot Archimonde / Deathwing / Old Gods / Sargeras.

Everyone treats him like the best character and villain written in WoW. I disagree.

I can't say i'm a fan of any thing Danuser has done since he was put in charge but is "dragons don't care about gender" really something to bitch and moan about?

I wouldn't say it matters as much as "the world of Azeroth has love and acceptance". It ruins the storyline.

It is simply meant to be nothing more than a kid's Saturday morning cartoon in game form that's cheesy to the core.

Ewww. No, thank you.

I hate Danuser as much as the next guy but this is just a thinly veiled stab at inclusivity and trans narratives unless you want to make the case that literally any wholesome part of WoW should go in favor of death and gore.

In which case go off king but that is not and has never been World of Warcraft.

Having a genocidal elf burn a civilisation doesn't mean that you cannot have a story about love and acceptance, that's what makes Warcraft a world, that a mutlitude of different people exist.

It might not be what you want to see but, well, the game isn't just for edgy 13 year old boys anymore.

Speaking of 13, the game is LITERALLY rated PG 13. If you want mAtUrE narratives there are other games for that.

I don't care if a dragon has a male or a female humanoid form. I care that because of it, storylines in the game would end in harmony and understanding. Basically, how BfA ended. Bunch of sworn enemies sharing moments of love and tenderness.

And, maybe it is time to move on from that mostly young audience.

I know that WarCraft has had some loose lore over the years with retcons, but to me this is where I draw the line in the sand and say enough is enough. WarCraft was always about escapism with dragons, swords, and cool characters doing epic feats in their fight for survival in a war torn world. When you break this escapism by introducing modern politics into a world that is far from politically correct, then the immersion and magic of escapism are broken.

If Blizzard wanted this stuff in their games, then they already have Overwatch to do so.

You took the words out of my mouth. People don't log on an RPG fantasy game to play real-life. They want to escape to a fantasy world that is different from reality. When you do things like that, you blur the lines and ruin the immersion. No one wants to read about real-life in game. That's why the game has a story of its own.

Don't care much for lore but I love things like this because they make all the toxic people show their true colors. In a way it's kind of sad but on the plus side all you transphobes will now have to play a game with that one thing you hate in.

It's not about transphobia. It's the affect on the game that upsets people here.

It's like the whole Dumbledore thing. Nobody cares if Dumbledore is gay (well maybe some people do, but nobody that matters,) but Rowling could have... you know, written that into the stories rather than try and get cool points for it after the fact. In my mind the thing with Pelagos is a better attempt at doing that because, while it might run a bit counterfactual to the lore, at least that was there intent from the start to make them effectively trans.

In so many words, my concern isn't "don't do it," my concern is "do it better."

You said it, pal.
Doing it as an afterthought is just trying to be mainstream. Doing it from the get-go, like Pelagos, or even the Night Warrior couple, is the right way. You can't just change, suddenly, something people are accustomed to, without expecting an uproar.
By the way, what does Chromie mean?

Lmao imagine being transphobic in 2021

It's not about that. It's about how it is affecting the game.

I hate to break it to you. But a world can have both "love and acceptance" and also have "war over land and murder over cultural differences" I mean have you looked fucking outside for 5 seconds?

Yes he worked one fairy tail book for wow to explore the more wonderful and happy and loving wife of Azeroth, between the countless books about murder and war and genocide.

Uh oh 1 single book about Azeroth having some nice things, I guess that means wow will never be about war again!

Nah, that's literally not how it works, look at quests. We have tons of quests were we just help out an old lady make a pie for her grandson, a lost girl find her parents. A man looking for his lost book, ok rather take things cause guess what, a world of war is not 100% war with every single person being a soldier thinking about how to murder every second. Sometimes they sit down and tell stories.

There's nothing wrong with that. But, when it causes sworn enemies to drop their swords for some hugs and kissies, that's where it's getting annoying.

You want an example, ok, Check out Mists of pandaria and Battle for azeroth. Characters interactions, reasons for war and etc. Bfa is straight up a worse version of cata-mop events.

If you can't see the fundamental changes of how they handled it the story, and how things went worse, and claim tis just feelings, there is not much i can do, i give one of the best examples i can remember atm.

Even the endings were different. While Jaina suggested dismantling the Horde and Varian threatened them that he would end them, now Jaina is talking about peace and Anduin about love.

Wait where did sylvanas call Arthas son of a bitch? I was pretty sure the garrosh line was the only actual swear in the entire game.

Warcraft 3. When Blizzard didn't shy from using foul language.

Nah don't you know, if they make a single book exploring the good sides of Azeroth, instantly it's a kids game.

No. The dialogues in game is what makes it so.

No you are wrong, don't you know, entire world must be dark endless genocide and slaughter, or it is happy lovey my little pony land! THERE IS NO INBETWEEN!!!!

There's good writing and then there's WoW writing. If you're not cringing at hearing the characters delivering their lines, then i don't know how you judge something to be good.

the culling of stratholme for example is a massive political point.

Real-life politics, not game's ones.

to make more money and please the LGBT community.

Basically, the whole Spongebob controversy last year.
The gif that would describe it the best is:

speaking you call them transvestites and gays over and over proves you literally don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
also people are literally saying this this thread "i dont want politics in my game, so trans people and gay people should not be in the game" that is literally transphobia and homophobia my dude, if you are really gunna say 'I DONT SEE ANY COMMENT HERE" maybe actually read the thread?

You don't really know how companies work, do you?
If they were that progressive from the start, they would have had trans and gay characters from the very beginning, years ago.
But, they did it only now. You wanna know why? because they want to capitalize on the money and publicity it would give them.

[Okacz]

I feel like using a dragon that pretends to be a female gnome using temporary magic as a good "trans" character will backfire.

What are you saying, it's perfect. "See, kids? That Dragon chose to be in a different body! So whenever someone says that they feel like they are born in a different one, remember, that's a choice they made!".

Just messing around. It's a positive message in a book not a single person is ever going to find in a store, let alone read. Let's shit on Danuser for making Shadowlands lore into a weird mix of Final Fantasy and Warcraft nostalgia baits.

[Orby]

Dude, I'm literally gay... And I meant not only this thread, but the MMO as a whole. And yes, I still only see hatred for Danuser and retcon, not transgenders.

This is why I hate this. Blizzard uses the LGBT community not out of sincerity, not out of tolerance, but simply so that sick warriors for social justice do not scream that Blizzard is homophobic and transophobic.

As a bi guy myself, I tend to roll my eyes whenever a big multi billion dollar company drags out the pride colours and tries to tell us they stand with us, then when the month is over they rip it down and go on their merry way. While also supporting and doing things that go against the LGBTQ community in general. Its slimly and dirt and is just there for good PR at the end of the day, I think we all know that.

Jim Sterling did a great video on this last year.