New Garrosh cinematic

[Alanar]

Some one got a hard one on garrosh.


On a serious note: he was just stupid and I was like shrug when I heard he was in the new raid. Honestly realy tired of him. Also garrosh voice actor sucks.

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A badass from start to finish.

Far from tbh.

[Avellon]

I'd rather not celebrate a Hitleristic race supremacist figure.

[Super Dickmann]

To bring this back around to Garrosh: his characterization and actions in the early questing zones actually does a good job of establishing a "tough, but fair" Garrosh with a code he will live by... it's the writing leading up to his downfall that's written in an absurd fashion and ignoring his base character. His death scene actually does more justice to his characterization in the questing zones than everything leading up to that moment, as he really was "For the Horde!" through and through, believing in his code non-apologetically. Even before his literal confrontations with Thrall, Garrosh probably did think Thrall was too weak and accommodating towards an Alliance who didn't have the Horde's best interest at heart.

He was. Garrosh's opinion of Thrall was initially high and his view of the Alliance neutral up until he went back to Azeroth and saw the state the orcs lived in under Thrall, that being resource deprivation and handouts. A state of affairs Thrall maintained to appease the Alliance but that he completely failed to achieve given that it was under him that Varian declared war on the Horde. The dumbest criticism of the character has always been that he hated the Alliance without actually having a personal grievance with them himself, when the fact that he only shaped his opinion of both them and Thrall after actually seeing them up close is if anything a point in his favor.

[Arikara]

It seems like people wanted Sir Garrosh. A monocole and tuxedo-wearing, tea-sipping, polite-speaking Orc.

I don't get people sometimes...

No, mostly I wanted him to be a corpse.

Preferably at Wrathgate, in place of Dranosh.

[Super Dickmann]

their children) by living in an enviroment where Orcs cannot prosper without outside aid (as anything but the most basic goods had to be imported) is a line too far.
And that was essentially the turning point for Garrosh, a point that was never really picked up by his critics who usually just went "War is not good, okay?" without ever providing alternative solution to the problems the Orcs faced.

While it was in service of neutering the orcs in their own faction for all stories going forward, the relations between Garrosh and the other races made a fair deal of sense. Thrall's ties with the trolls and tauren were built by him personally and were largely a lot of giving and not all that much receiving. By the time the Echo Isles are reclaimed what do the Darkspear really still need from the orcs? Ditto the tauren. With the Darkspear there is the element that they were still threatened, which is why Vol'jin's position and immediate death threats were a bit dim. The tauren did genuinely have zero to gain from war and weren't really threatened by anything save the dwarven expeditionary forces so the stand Cairne took made sense, at least provided you ignore Honor's Stand and assume that the guys who did in the Stonespire Clan and invaded Mulgore to strip mine it for valuables will suddenly start respecting your territorial integrity if you roll over. Which they wouldn't, so nevermind, Garrosh was right. That aside, they were weak, but at least you could parse their reasoning.

The Eastern Kingdoms races go without saying - they don't even share a continent or in the case of the blood elves, even a base interest given it was Velen who fixed them up. Of course they'd chafe at actually being expected to contribute to the orcs at large.

It was something badly missing from everything in BFA - the idea that each race at least, let alone the individual people in it, have their own reasons to oppose or support the Warchief instead of going on about vague honor that they apparently all subscribed to. Garrosh was also immensely serviced by being part of a narrative that didn't have one faction consist of unassailable saints but of political actors who had their own biases and goals.

[Arikara]

Garrosh Did Nothing Right

[starstationprofm]

I'd rather not celebrate a Hitleristic race supremacist figure.

Warcraft is pretty much built on racism.

You think Night Elves got dominion over Kalimdor through peaceful colonisation? That troll empire didn't just disappear.

[justandulas]

This is the only TRUE WARchief in WoW, and the WoW writers forced us to betray him. No true member of the horde would ever assault their capital or warchief on the verge of total victory. If the traitors didn't betray him, the horde wins and we all get to play together under the horde banner today.

A warchief should be all about WAR, conquest, and destroying the enemy at any or all costs. Sylvanas was close, but she served another master. The troll was pathetic, and Thrall even more pathetic. Thrall is practically the biggest you know what (crude word for cat) in ALL of WoW and i wish he'd have died years ago. Thrall, and his likeminded cowards hold the horde back.

Garrosh was a TRUE warchief. One worthy of the title, and the first since WC2. Thrall and the rest of the alliance sympathizing writers can sit and spin, but the REAL horde is all about conquest, destruction, and WAR. Garrosh was a manly man's warchief, a true warchief, and they couldn't beat him without bad writing, betrayal's, and even CHEATING by thrall in their final duel (no magic allowed, thrall is losing and all of a sudden resorts to magic like a coward he is)

Anyone who doesn't like garrosh may as well join thrall and just go join the alliance, because that's how little i think of the peace loving horde members. Pathetic and unworthy of the name HORDE.

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Villain ended up being villain to the end.

The guy's practically a Warcraft version of Hitler. I hope this is the last we hear of him.

Jaina has done worse arguably, yet you probably cheered when she magically peaced out in her raid. She should be as dead as dead gets. So should Thrall for that matter.

[Super Dickmann]

Warcraft is pretty much built on racism.

You think Night Elves got dominion over Kalimdor through peaceful colonisation? That troll empire didn't just disappear.

Fantasy race analogies are especially poor in Warcraft and fail by default because A) All participants in the plot are 100% ethnostates so every war is a race war B) Races have demonstrable, immutable characteristics. Gnolls are in fact dumber and more aggressive than Night Elves.

[guisadop]

Garrosh was an antagonist done right. Everything Sylvannas wishes she were.

[Aleksej89]

he died as he lived, stupid and pointless.

[username993720]

What makes you think that?

That you criticize him for exactly how he should be.

I can't understand why people like characters who consist of nothing nut flaws, but to each their own I guess.

Because perfect characters are boring.

Also garrosh voice actor sucks.

Take it back

Who would you say is better?

Garrosh was an antagonist done right. Everything Sylvannas wishes she were.

Precisely.
She has gone soft...

[Raisei]

Because initially, Thrall very much fought for his people, despite the Orcs being huge assholes.

Modern lore however dictates that even early on, Thrall felt the urge to make his people suffer for it, the choice to live in a very hostile desert was done as "repentance" for the crimes of the Horde.
That's a point where it crosses the line for me, it was back in Warcraft 3 implied that Thrall chose Durotar because it's simliar to Draenor (as it was called the "Red World" in Warcraft 2), where the decision to live there makes sense.
Even if you want to spin it in a "living in a harsh enviroment makes us stronger", also would've been fine as it very much suited the Orcs.

However, the concept of collectively punishing people (and by extension, their children) by living in an enviroment where Orcs cannot prosper without outside aid (as anything but the most basic goods had to be imported) is a line too far.
And that was essentially the turning point for Garrosh, a point that was never really picked up by his critics who usually just went "War is not good, okay?" without ever providing alternative solution to the problems the Orcs faced.

I think Thrall had a good idea, but he underestimated the urges of the Orcs. He thought they could change, become productive members of a society not based on mindlessly waging war to sate their endless bloodlust. It didn't work. All he did was supressing it for a while. When Garrosh came along they were happy to ditch all that nonesense and slaughter anyone that wouldn't immediatedly submit to them and sometimes even then.

The truth is that Thrall was an aberration, while Garrosh was the perfect example of an Orc and now he showed clearly where the Orcs will end if they do not learn from Thralls example and try to aspire to that madman with daddy issues.

[shimerra]

he died as he lived, stupid and pointless.

Yeah Garrosh was always the idiots idea of a tough man. He was a moron and the single good thing about his entire story is they let us see the dumb sack of shit die twice.

[Jshadowhunter]

Villain ended up being villain to the end.

The guy's practically a Warcraft version of Hitler. I hope this is the last we hear of him.

Only because whining lil b1tches complained "waaaah, he's not Thrall, he just loves to fight and I don't like that, waah", forcing the Blizzard writer to hit him with a "not-see" stick in Mists. And on that part, I speak from experience, one that I regret now. That's about the ONLY reason why his character made a 180 in a leap of 1 expansion when he was only present during the leveling zones.

[Kralljin]

I think Thrall had a good idea, but he underestimated the urges of the Orcs.

If by "urge" you mean "living not in a completely hostile enviroment", then yes.

When Garrosh came along they were happy to ditch all that nonesense and slaughter anyone that wouldn't immediatedly submit to them and sometimes even then.

Again, a gross simplification of the character, Garrosh first and foremost drive was the wellbeing of the orcish people.

[username993720]

You really like to put pics and vids on your posts huh.

So reading that much text wouldn't be so arduous.

you are just crazy , i will save this article , you are really amazing and i dont know how to thank you for your work on this .

as you can see the character is literlally the most badass . but the non-sense writing in pandaria made it fall down to shit .

anyway really made me happy reading through this , thank you !

I can't tell if you hate me or you like it.

[Syegfryed]

It sickens me how people revere this worthless piece of shit!

Because we are true horde players, the only people who dislike him, as we saw in this thread, are either alliance or elf players and their opinion matter nothing to the horde.

He was literally the worst warchief, every single of his war strategies sucked.

You mean he was the best warchief and every single of his war strategies worked? cause he single handed turn the tide of the war and almost came up winning, it had to get alliance and horde to defeat him


thats was a lot of salt

I will never forgive him, or Magatha, for killing Cairne. And for bombing Theramore. But the Cairne deal takes the cake.

Rot in hell, red guy. Or in super-hell, since you apparently vanished from hell in that cutscene.

It was cairne own fault for blaming him for something he didn't.

[Orby]

Finally, Blizzard got rid off the last mascule character in their game.

Illidan? Jailing Sargeras.
Varian? Died.
Saurfang? Died.
Bolvar? He's nothing now.
Thrall? Is sad now and does nothing.
Genn? We didn't even see him in SL.

It's weird that since they hired C. Golden every mascule character that should be in the World of WARcraft is either gone or not active.
There are no good representants of what real character should be in the war right now. Garrosh was one of them...

And another one blaming Christie Golden like she's decides who stays and who dies... She's a writer not a creative director. All her role is, is to write what others want her to write, she just fills in the blank. Its called a creative team and there are like 10+ writers for WoW and most of them are in similar position to Golden its the creative directior (or equivalent of) that forwards the direction of the story.

Come on people... brains, use them. Or at least educate yourself on how a creative writing system works. This isnt writing a book, it's a completely different structure.

[Syegfryed]

I think Thrall had a good idea, but he underestimated the urges of the Orcs. He thought they could change, become productive members of a society not based on mindlessly waging war to sate their endless bloodlust. It didn't work. All he did was supressing it for a while. When Garrosh came along they were happy to ditch all that nonesense and slaughter anyone that wouldn't immediatedly submit to them and sometimes even then.

thats just not true, at all, you are outright presenting a lie as true here. You are saying "orcs could not live in a society based on mindleslly wagging war" that thral wanted, and thats why didn't work.

Not true, and your last point is also false.

Thrall made orcs live in famine and poverty in a desert without resources, Thrall accepted every Alliance demand, despite the alliance attacking then and invading their territory. They had to sustain themselves with other races help and by alliance sanctions.

This is the problem with people who didn't read the short stories, they get no context and just say nonsenses since blizzard outright ignored the cataclysm plots, but Garrosh shortstory is canon and show why Garry did what he did.


Slaughter everyone who didn't immediately submit? bullshit, the alliance was waging war upon the horde by Varian orders, night elves stop their trade and start attacking, dwarves in the barrens were digging deep in tauren territory and killing then all of that while the orcs were living in famine, he had to act

Alliance brought everything to themselves.

The truth is that Thrall was an aberration, while Garrosh was the perfect example of an Orc and now he showed clearly where the Orcs will end if they do not learn from Thralls example and try to aspire to that madman with daddy issues.

thrall was an aberration because he favour the enemy before his own people seeking an utopia, Garrosh was the perfect example of how the orcs should not endure alliance bullshit no more.