Flying really does make the world lose any sense of danger

[ranzino]

in TBC lvl70-ish areas like Skettis, Ogri'la or Netherwing Ledge and some extra places would be out of reach without flying; back then Blizzard designed extra content for flying chars. now tell me you would rather twirl thumbs while doing nothing but gladly eradicate flying skills and all areas and content designed for the skill....

[Genju]

Flying needs to be integrated into the quest and zone design, then its a great feature, otherwise it trivialises everything. The zones that were created with flying in mind are way more immersive and creative, like stormpeaks in wotlk. It feels more natural when there are undisclosed areas without a street towards them.

Unlock it for a zone by completing the main story of that zone to enable flying and let you explore new areas that were previously not reachable (and not by a patch, directly in x.0). Create anti-flying mobs/towers/mobs with hooks/whatever if you want to make a certain area a no fly zone for difficulty.

[prwraith]

Just don't fly...forehead

[LionSinMaikeru]

There are a lot of things that have made current WoW less dynamic and rpg-like than BC / Vanilla.

Flying isn't one of them.

[Chumahki]

Danger? There is no danger, except maybe the danger of wasting my time. Having to run through the same boring places to get to someplace interesting is not engaging gameplay, and it's certainly not "danger".

[ellieg]

I said how does it impact you. "it might sorta kinda maybe possibly change some prices maybe" is not impacting you at all. Be specific. And even if it did impact prices, which you have zero evidence of it doing, how does that impact you personally - again, be specific.

Price of shit is higher. Every single thing developers decide to add has some impact. Small like trial of style. Or big like dual spec. Im sure you're intelligent enough to understand that.

Or if I want a piece of gear and it happens to look good, someone might roll need on it cause they "need for tmog" and I have more competition on upgrades

[kail]

in TBC lvl70-ish areas like Skettis, Ogri'la or Netherwing Ledge and some extra places would be out of reach without flying; back then Blizzard designed extra content for flying chars. now tell me you would rather twirl thumbs while doing nothing but gladly eradicate flying skills and all areas and content designed for the skill....

The eradication of flying would mean less content? Wouldn't they just add the areas regardless and make them accessible without flying?

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Just don't PvP server?

I really like what they did with retail servers tbh.

They should adapt that system to classic as well.

Because then those who want to PvP can PvP.

I'm personally never going to play on a PvP server ever again.

Too many toxic people who just want to ruin your day.

"Just don't fly", "just don't PvP server"

More non-answers.

[arkanon]

"Just don't fly", "just don't PvP server"

More non-answers.

If you dont want to engage in world pvp, you can choose a pve server - how is this a non-answer?

If you roll on a pvp server then complain about world pvp, thats entirely the players problem, created by the player. The comparison being made is that those flying around on flying mounts shouldn't complain about flying mounts, when an alternative exists in game. Im not saying its a good comparison, or a good argument, but it certainly isnt a "non-answer"

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Price of shit is higher. Every single thing developers decide to add has some impact. Small like trial of style. Or big like dual spec. Im sure you're intelligent enough to understand that.

Or if I want a piece of gear and it happens to look good, someone might roll need on it cause they "need for tmog" and I have more competition on upgrades

But those are concerns you have with TRANSMOG, not with the things I mentioned. You are still not being specific at all, saying dual spec would have a "big" impact but not being able to specifically say what the impact is.

[ellieg]

If you dont want to engage in world pvp, you can choose a pve server - how is this a non-answer?

If you roll on a pvp server then complain about world pvp, thats entirely the players problem, created by the player. The comparison being made is that those flying around on flying mounts shouldn't complain about flying mounts, when an alternative exists in game. Im not saying its a good comparison, or a good argument, but it certainly isnt a "non-answer"

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But those are concerns you have with TRANSMOG, not with the things I mentioned. You are still not being specific at all, saying dual spec would have a "big" impact but not being able to specifically say what the impact is.

There are a lot of ppl that enjoy world pvp when opponents couldn't just flying mount away or flying mount in. Like it was in vanilla. "Choose a pve server" isn't an answer to that. And they can dislike what flying mounts did to world pvp while still utilizing them because otherwise they'd be at a huge disadvantage. Go talk to communists and tell them they can't use iPhone or other products of capitalism. Same argument

[anon5123]

What's even more retarded is to actually think that "just don't fly" is a legitimate argument.

"wahh wahh I don't like flying"
"Then don't fly"
"wahhh wahh that's not good enough I need blizz to entirely remove this mechanic because I don't like it!"

nah, that's more retarded.

There are a lot of ppl that enjoy world pvp when opponents couldn't just flying mount away or flying mount in. Like it was in vanilla.

....in vanilla people would just run away on their normal ground mounts. No difference.

On top of all this, battlegrounds and arenas killed world pvp 500% more than flying mounts did, so I don't see why people get all bitchy and moany about flying, when wpvp was already dead by the time flying became available.

[ellieg]

"wahh wahh I don't like flying"
"Then don't fly"
"wahhh wahh that's not good enough I need blizz to entirely remove this mechanic because I don't like it!"

nah, that's more retarded.



....in vanilla people would just run away on their normal ground mounts. No difference.

On top of all this, battlegrounds and arenas killed world pvp 500% more than flying mounts did, so I don't see why people get all bitchy and moany about flying, when wpvp was already dead by the time flying became available.

U could get dazed on the ground and had to run thru mobs. Much more interesting than jumping on a 280% speed and disappearing into the sky

[Sarkli83]

TBC is my favorite WoW expansion by far but I'm definitely one of those people that now contend flying is one of the worst things ever added o the game.

To go along with op and the title. Is it really that flying has ruined the game? Is it really because of flying that the world has lost its sense of danger? Or is it because, like you stated, flying has been out since TBC for some 14 years or so and the development team doesnt design content with flying in mind? They are developing 2d gameplay in a self created 3d world.

[arkanon]

U could get dazed on the ground and had to run thru mobs. Much more interesting than jumping on a 280% speed and disappearing into the sky

As others have said, they dont find that "interesting" at all, nothing more than an inconvenience and frustration, no danger at all. Out of interest, do you avoid flightpoints as well? I mean they dont even require any player input at all, so im guessing all the anti flying people dont use FP and instead just rude their 60% mount instead? I mean surely they wouldnt use an epic mount - it is faster than most mobs, so it pretty much trivializes everything.

[Otaka]

MMO isn't single-time single-player game, where whole game is about exploring, navigating, solving puzzles, finding secrets. It's long term game. You play it for weeks, months and years. When you do the same quest/WQ for 100500th time - artificial obstacles become annoying and drive you away from game.

The best example - compare it with riding to your work through rush hour traffic jams. What would you prefer?


Your job - is what matters. Your route from home to your job and back doesn't. Because you do it every day, so you suffer from "cookie cutter" effect - you no longer notice, what's around you. You just want to get to place, that matter to you, as fast, as possible. That's it.

What bugs me, is that many players, who play MMO, are people without imagination. What they do in fantasy world - is the same, they do in real life. We are so limited in our real life. We want to have more opportunities. But all of a sudden when fantasy world allows us to do it - we reject it. We want difficulties, like if our real world wouldn't provide enough of them. I just can't understand it.

Cant compare the two... riding on the ground in a game is nothing like a traffic jam, you arent slowed down by other people (unless theres so many people around the server is lagging, but this isnt exclusive to ground mounts).

Also the problem really isnt that flying exists in the game... the way it was implemented is the problem. There is practically zero flying gameplay, nothing to make flying engaging... its purely a convenience feature with vanity slapped onto it.
Over 10 years ago i still delved into some private servers, mainly for personal enjoyment (like exploration) and in there we flew around like GM's... except we didnt have to mount up. It literally functioned exactly the same way as the real flying in the real game... no flight physics to speak of.

If you take a look at some other games and MMO's that have flying aswell, they prove it can be implemented in a much better way.

Currently imo the best flying implemention in an MMO is in Guild Wars 2... their mounts have unique mechanics and some are physics based too, its very engaging and fun to use those mounts because they arent simply designed with pure convenience in mind.
Travelling around the world in there becomes gameplay in itself... its not an artificial obstacle, it is simply fun just like games are supposed to be!

[ellieg]

As others have said, they dont find that "interesting" at all, nothing more than an inconvenience and frustration, no danger at all. Out of interest, do you avoid flightpoints as well? I mean they dont even require any player input at all, so im guessing all the anti flying people dont use FP and instead just rude their 60% mount instead? I mean surely they wouldnt use an epic mount - it is faster than most mobs, so it pretty much trivializes everything.

What are you talking abt lmao. Im talking about the difference in world pvp with flying or without. The guy said even without flying, ppl got on their mount and tried to run away. I mentioned the dif here is that on ground they had to avoid mobs while I was actively pursuing them, which would usually allow me to catch up. With flying, that aspect is gone and you never catch them. What are you going on about?

[arkanon]

What are you talking abt lmao. Im talking about the difference in world pvp with flying or without. The guy said even without flying, ppl got on their mount and tried to run away. I mentioned the dif here is that on ground they had to avoid mobs while I was actively pursuing them, which would usually allow me to catch up. With flying, that aspect is gone and you never catch them. What are you going on about?

Your claim is that flying allows the player to escape easier. So does an epic mount. So does a normal mount. If someone attacks you, you should stand and fight and only attempt to walk away with RP walk, otherwise you are potentially gaining an advantage. And dont you DARE run to a FP and fly away - totally unacceptable! /s

[munkeyinorbit]

Thats not an option. Want to herb or mine to make money in the world? Can't just "not fly" cause all the flyers will take most of the nodes.

Want to pvp like u did on azeroth? Too bad, ppl can fly away or fly in.

I personally like flying but saying "lol just dont fly bro. Facts. End of discussion." Makes you look dumb lol

What makes people look dumb is trying to twist a fact to fit their agenda.
If you don't want to fly then don't. FACT.
Not having flying doesn't mean you can't herb or mine. FACT.

If you don't buy epic flying you INSTANTLY make 5200.gold.

Not having a mount doesn't mean you can't attack another person in wPvP. FACT.

Everything you have said is wrong

[Couchpotato2013]

What are you talking abt lmao. Im talking about the difference in world pvp with flying or without. The guy said even without flying, ppl got on their mount and tried to run away. I mentioned the dif here is that on ground they had to avoid mobs while I was actively pursuing them, which would usually allow me to catch up. With flying, that aspect is gone and you never catch them. What are you going on about?

The appeal that wpvp is good and why it doesn’t exist is because of flying is super copium. Just stop. Phase 2.5 phenomena in classic easily destroys your echo chamber. No one enjoyed wpvp other than to grief people with extreme level variances. And independent of blizzard’s toaster servers, the content had a shorter shelf life than all instanced pvp and thus it means nothing to objective-orientated play that dominants these days.

[ellieg]

What makes people look dumb is trying to twist a fact to fit their agenda.
If you don't want to fly then don't. FACT.
Not having flying doesn't mean you can't herb or mine. FACT.

If you don't buy epic flying you INSTANTLY make 5200.gold.

Not having a mount doesn't mean you can't attack another person in wPvP. FACT.

Everything you have said is wrong

If flying exists, and has multiple advantages, and majority are flying, you are disadvantaged by not flying. FACT.

[jediknight12]

People seem to forget that you don't need to fly if you don't want to. It's a choice imo.