The Steam Deck - a Switch competitor coming in december 2021

[ldev]

lol. compression a performance boost. now ive heard everything. its ok lil buddy, i remember when i got my first pc. in case you somehow didnt get it: i never said it didnt improve IO, i was talking about overall system performance. sure, it makes the data faster to read, but there is a performance hit for decompression.

Even webshits know that compressing their traffic increases performance. Congratulations, your knowledge is worse than a PHP webshit's.

Oh no, CPU is getting hammered while you stream data from SSD to RAM, it could have processed so much data from RAM... which was empty because... the data is still getting loaded into RAM... WHAT?? YOU FUCKING WHAT DUMB DUMB??

Decompressing occurs when you load data. When you load data = YOU ARE FUCKING IO LIMITED. CPU IS WAITING FOR IO. IO finishes faster = performance increases. Compressed data = smaller data = faster IO = PERFORMANCE. Fuck. You fucking know less than a 16 olds in schools learn about how computers work.

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Exactly, that person who feels torn over purchasing either would be me. Still leaning towards a Switch so far. However Valve is also hoping that fewer people will be tempted to get involved in phone and tablet games if they're carrying out a pocket gaming pc.

I feel people are underestimating mobile gaming



See that sea of red? That sea is growing and it terrifies Valve. They need a part of that red. The PC market is still growing but phones and tablets are at an inflection point where their performance is capable of eating into games that would normally be played on other devices.

If Valve wanted to take that red, it could have made a... deck, I mean dock... for iphones and androids with battery extension, a fan and joysticks. This product does not compete with the sea of red. People are carrying phones in their pockets, they will not carry whatever this is. This is laptop cannibalisation. Not taking from mobile.

[Ivarr]

If Valve wanted to take that red, it could have made a... deck, I mean dock... for iphones and androids with battery extension, a fan and joysticks.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Valve's solution to not being part of the mobile market is to provide a way for mobile devices to stop being mobile?

I think that the problem Valve is facing is that they can't get around the app stores. They can provide a Steam app, but for people to install a steam app on their phone before they can buy a game (provided this is allowed in the first place) is already one hurdle that games offered on the app stores don't have.

[NihilSustinet]

Even webshits know that compressing their traffic increases performance. Congratulations, your knowledge is worse than a PHP webshit's.

Oh no, CPU is getting hammered while you stream data from SSD to RAM, it could have processed so much data from RAM... which was empty because... the data is still getting loaded into RAM... WHAT?? YOU FUCKING WHAT DUMB DUMB??

Decompressing occurs when you load data. When you load data = YOU ARE FUCKING IO LIMITED. CPU IS WAITING FOR IO. IO finishes faster = performance increases. Compressed data = smaller data = faster IO = PERFORMANCE. Fuck. You fucking know less than a 16 olds in schools learn about how computers work.

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If Valve wanted to take that red, it could have made a... deck, I mean dock... for iphones and androids with battery extension, a fan and joysticks. This product does not compete with the sea of red. People are carrying phones in their pockets, they will not carry whatever this is. This is laptop cannibalisation. Not taking from mobile.

so youre saying that using cpu overhead to decompress data going from storage to RAM and then using the CPU again to process the data from RAM on demand is faster than just having high speed storage and RAM and only needing the cpu to process the data? ok bro.

[Edge-]

See that sea of red? That sea is growing and it terrifies Valve. They need a part of that red.

It really, really, really doesn't. Especially when you look at how PC revenue has grown over the years.

Mobile isn't in the same kind of direct competition for core gamers/PC/console games, and it's not in direct competition with handhelds either.

The PC market is still growing but phones and tablets are at an inflection point where their performance is capable of eating into games that would normally be played on other devices.

It's not "eating" that market share, it's adding a massive new userbase that were never spending much, or anything, on games or even really playing them.

Handheld =|= mobile, two different audiences.

[Jtbrig7390]

so youre saying that using cpu overhead to decompress data going from storage to RAM and then using the CPU again to process the data from RAM on demand is faster than just having high speed storage and RAM and only needing the cpu to process the data? ok bro.

You are really showing you don't have a clue on the topic at hand, You "opinion" i s actually going against what actual developers have been saying.

You are arguing just for the hell of it at this point.

Also no one says ok bro...

[Ivarr]

It really, really, really doesn't. Especially when you look at how PC revenue has grown over the years.

Mobile isn't in the same kind of direct competition for core gamers/PC/console games, and it's not in direct competition with handhelds either.



It's not "eating" that market share, it's adding a massive new userbase that were never spending much, or anything, on games or even really playing them.

Handheld =|= mobile, two different audiences.

Markets can grow independently of each other and eat into each other at the same time. That's what we're seeing here. Mobile games are no longer providing a form of entertainment that's distinct from desktop gaming. This is because there's a diminishing return on the value of graphical performance, especially on a smaller screen. Mobile phones and tablets are reaching this treshold right now. There will always be people who will play on a desktop no matter what, I'm one of these people. But there are games, especially games that don't necessarily require a mouse and keyboard that I would prefer to play anywhere else.

[Edge-]

You are really showing you don't have a clue on the topic at hand, You "opinion" i s actually going against what actual developers have been saying.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...a-48gb-install

"Yeah, basically when you download the game or the disc itself, it's a lot smaller than that," Baker replied when asked about the PC version's 48GB install.

"We have audio we either download or install from the disc, then we uncompress it. We probably could have had audio decompress off disc but we were a little worried about min spec and the fact that a two-core machine would dedicate a huge chunk of one core to just decompressing audio.

"So... it's almost all audio... On a higher PC it wouldn't be an issue. On a medium or moderate PC, it wouldn't be an issue, it's that on a two-core [machine] with where our min spec is, we couldn't dedicate those resources to audio."

Except...it's the literal opposite?

[Jtbrig7390]

Except...it's the literal opposite?

two-core machine

So how many people are gaming on a Dual-Core machine. If you are going to argue against what has been said at least use something that is relevant.

Not a story from nearly 10 years ago talking about running on Dual-Core CPU's.

[Edge-]

Mobile games are no longer providing a form of entertainment that's distinct from desktop gaming.

They most absolutely are, especially when you look at the way the overwhelming majority are designed (usual freemium tactics dictating design) and the fact that the more "traditional" games on mobile with an up-front price that aren't "designed for mobile" tend to perform poorly. See: Square Enix's $15+ RPG ports.

This is because there's a diminishing return on the value of graphical performance, especially on a smaller screen.

Except we're seeing games targeting more "core" audiences ramping up graphics and are finally getting games with like, PS3/Xbox 360 or better graphics. Even if most of them are autoplay games where you just manage your character and the game plays itself.

But there are games, especially games that don't necessarily require a mouse and keyboard that I would prefer to play anywhere else.

How many of those games would you prefer to play on a 5-6" screen? How many without a dedicated controller? How many for long sessions?

I'm not bashing mobile gaming here, I play plenty of mobile games (though rarely stick with any for too long) and there are some fantastic mobile titles out there, while the overall quality of mobile titles continues to improve. It's exciting and cool. But it's just such a wildly different experience compared to the experience delivered with sitting down on your couch/PC chair. The closest thing to it is indeed handheld, obviously, but even then if you look at the games on-offer on handheld vs. mobile (even accounting for all the clones) the direction and design of the games remain pretty wildly different. Because they're servicing different audiences.

[NihilSustinet]

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...a-48gb-install



Except...it's the literal opposite?

exactly my point. thank you. sony is using purpose built chips and compression and post processing tricks to make a 500 console play like a 1000 dollar PC, which is commendable, and a great value if you want to play at that level, but pretending that an enthusiast PC running top of the line hardware couldnt run A Rift Apart in its sleep is as ridiculous as it is laughable.

[Jtbrig7390]

but pretending that an enthusiast PC running top of the line hardware couldnt run A Rift Apart in its sleep is as ridiculous as it is laughable.

Good thing no one said this....

[Ivarr]

They most absolutely are, especially when you look at the way the overwhelming majority are designed (usual freemium tactics dictating design) and the fact that the more "traditional" games on mobile with an up-front price that aren't "designed for mobile" tend to perform poorly. See: Square Enix's $15+ RPG ports.

The only thing that is standing in the way of this is some cheap bluetooth gadget that takes care of the controls. And granted so far most of these are rubbish still. But the point is that the processor and the screen are already there. Ready to be slotted in whatever 'clicks' with the gamer.

Except we're seeing games targeting more "core" audiences ramping up graphics and are finally getting games with like, PS3/Xbox 360 or better graphics. Even if most of them are autoplay games where you just manage your character and the game plays itself.

Are graphics really ramping up though? I've seen the new Unreal demo and it looks astonishing. But I find myself more impressed by the fact that a computer is able to process it all than by the photorealism which doesn't feel like it made that much headway since games like first Red Dead Redemption, Gears of War or Modern Warfare. The difference is there and it's clear, but the added value has been running into diminishing returns for a decade already.

Mobile phones and tablets are catching up here. And once people grow up with the ability to have these experiences on their phone, they'll be less likely to install Steam.

How many of those games would you prefer to play on a 5-6" screen? How many without a dedicated controller? How many for long sessions?

My most fond gaming memory was when I had a snowboard cleave in my leg on holiday and I was stuck in the chalet playing Metroid Fusion until the end of the week. Wonderful game.

I will always be a desktop gamer. But the number of ways I can have an equal if not better experience on my couch or in a park or on public transport are drastically increasing. And if this tempts me, it definitely will tempt the generation that grows up on these devices or without a pc at all.

[Video Games]

@Jester Joe

While they argue about shit nobody cares about, please change the title to gabeboy or gabeboy advance

[Edge-]

The only thing that is standing in the way of this is some cheap bluetooth gadget that takes care of the controls.

https://www.ign.com/articles/best-phone-controller

Just a few, but there are plenty of controller options already, and have been for a while. There is simply no "mass market" for them since most folks who "seriously" game on the go are using handhelds already. It's a niche market because "hardcore mobile" is niche.

But the point is that the processor and the screen are already there. Ready to be slotted in whatever 'clicks' with the gamer.

It's already serving what "clicks" with gamers, and will continue to serve that to them. Which isn't your more traditional games on PC/console, as those are still few and far between even as the big gaming companies get into the game. CoD Mobile is a great example. It's actually a fantastic mobile adaptation of the series, looks great and runs great. But the experience is radically different from what you get from core releases because it has to be designed very differently for that audience.

Are graphics really ramping up though? I've seen the new Unreal demo and it looks astonishing.

Yeah, though it definitely needs higher end phones. The long-ago promise of "PS3 quality!" graphics on phones is very much here, and a bit beyond. Genshin Impact looks great on phones. It's off-screen, but look at Shadowgun Legends, it genuinely looks good and has quite a few nice graphical goodies for a mobile game -

Mobile phones and tablets are catching up here. And once people grow up with the ability to have these experiences on their phone, they'll be less likely to install Steam.

Maybe, but I doubt it. Sometimes you want a nice big monitor to play a game rather than a smallish phone screen.

I will always be a desktop gamer. But the number of ways I can have an equal if not better experience on my couch or in a park or on public transport are drastically increasing. And if this tempts me, it definitely will tempt the generation that grows up on these devices or without a pc at all.

Sure, but are you going to abandon your desktop/couch for it? Or will you simply add some gaming time while at the park or on public transport? Because all the data I've seen suggests the latter rather than the former.

[baskev]

"Competitor for the Switch"? Not really. People could already connect their PC to their TVs (via a cable or streaming) and play their games on the big screen if they wanted. If they wanted to play on the go then they could stream their PC to their phone. And most people who buy the Switch aren't buying for the dual functionality; they're buying for access to the current library of Nintendo games (Switch emulators require huge processing power to run at a decent framerate, which means even more expensive hardware... which is conspicuously scarce ATM).

This will just be another Steam Box: a highly niche product that will sell to the people who actively seek it out, but it's not going to seriously threaten the Switch.

eeuuuhhhh what?

Stream to your phone if you are on the move? And let your ( most likely) power hungry pc run at home? And to do not you need a good connection to your home pc/internet on the go. etc etc etc. To many variables of things that cost more money, can go wrong etc.

I have my problems with the switch ( and enough of them not to buy it). But gaming on your phone/ipad is NOT the same something like the switch. I have played on it. And to keep playing after docking. And taking it with you to game anywhere is a major plus. And the screen of your phone is tiny compared to a switch.
But bad joy cons, no youtube/netflix ( last time i checked) etc on it also a down side. ( for when you do have internet). And if you do its not that much better. Just upscaled. Having some tech in the dock to do more with the console would have been smart.

But i do agree. It needs to be spec wise on level with the switch and play games without connection to counter the switch. Otherwise its pointless.

[Indigenously Abled]

youtube

Is on the switch. Hulu and Funimation as well. Not earth-shattering by any means, but still something.

[Ivarr]

Sure, but are you going to abandon your desktop/couch for it? Or will you simply add some gaming time while at the park or on public transport? Because all the data I've seen suggests the latter rather than the former.

It will start with adding some time, but this is the foot in the door that I'm confident will eat into my desk time eventually.

[beanman12345]

@Jester Joe

While they argue about shit nobody cares about, please change the title to gabeboy or gabeboy advance

I was thinking gabegear but I like gabeboy too.

[Fencers]

I love it. This is closer to what I've wanted for a long time now have been using Geforce Now or Retorid Pocket to get me there somewhat.

Instant purchase.

[Floofi]

I'm definitely interested, but am slightly concerned about the joystick and button placement; they seem really high up than a standard controller.

I'll keep my eye on this, but I will want to try it out or at least hold one first to see if it feels comfortable.