Is your guild losing raiders too?

[anveena]

We've lost two so far but they've been replaced.

[Gratlim]

Attunements are fine imo. They make sense lorewise as well. The issue is the min maxing for dungeon pugs that make achieving attunements a nightmare as DPS unless you're absolutely metaslave / carried.

As for players quitting, this has a lot to do with guild leads acting like HR managers filling spots with "specs" and not caring about the players themselves.

100% player made issue. It is just my experience though.

[kail]

Sounds like every single raid tier since Cata. Guild progresses through the raids available, knocks them down eventually, has the raid(s) on farm status and players start to leave as they feel the current content is "beaten". I've already gotten my character with near P1 bis so far minus the world boss loot or the kara trash boss rng so I'll likely hang up tbcc until P2 comes around. The guild is still 30+ raiders strong so far but I don't doubt that many will take a temporary hiatus like I will.

The new thing comes out, people enjoy it then move on. I would be far more surprised if the population of the launch held to this point or anywhere close. A

nd no I don't see the attunements as an issue so far. The Kara attunement is a few dungeons and quests and the two 25 man raids don't even require attunements. Being attuned to T5 is the real challenge with the required grp quests in Shadowmoon and the heroic dungeons needed. If Kara attunement is considered too much for someone, consider them filtered.

[Azadina]

We got 3 25 mans with a bench. Of course, as time drags on it will get down to two and eventually one but that is why we organize and create so many successful raids in T4 so that when T6 rolls around we got the cream of the crop of pick from and discard those that are unworthy. The tables can be turned on this problem. You just have to be willing to turn them.

Sure, if one is completely remorseless about it. I'm personally happy to be in a guild that doesn't keep 80 people roster with specific intent of dumping ~50 of them, one way or another. I do wonder how your raiders find motivation. Do they all believe to be part of the 1/3?

[melzas]

TBC is an old outdated game with stupid concepts that were removed because they simple were bad, like raid attunement. People realise it's waste of time and quit or go back to retail, nothing out of ordinary here (More people will leave later, so you better get to recruiting).

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Sure, if one is completely remorseless about it. I'm personally happy to be in a guild that doesn't keep 80 people roster with specific intent of dumping ~50 of them, one way or another. I do wonder how your raiders find motivation. Do they all believe to be part of the 1/3?

Truth? About 1/3 of them know they are fair weather folks that probably won't play all of BC based on just how they play and freely admit it. About 1/3rd are pretty sure they will be here to the end and proved it by riding it out though Naxx. The other 1/3 are up in the air. Maybe they make the cut when it is down to one or things work out and 2 teams end up making it to the end. But all 3 teams are fully aware that the idea behind more teams is to ensure the guild survives the eventual fall off that will happen after the nostalgia bug runs it's course and/or the game is sitting in limbo waiting for the WotLK announcement type of scenario happens (if). It also isn't an A, B, or C team situation. We have talent spread out making sure all function as long as we can make it happen. Its not out of hate we do it this way and would love all 3 teams to make it but we have been on this road on both PRs and in Classic to know how it usually rolls.

[Prozach]

We're actually gaining raiders. Which is exactly as it should be right about now; all of the half-assed, smaller guilds are starting to dissolve and merge with the larger. Just like in Vanilla Classic.

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Sure, if one is completely remorseless about it. I'm personally happy to be in a guild that doesn't keep 80 people roster with specific intent of dumping ~50 of them, one way or another. I do wonder how your raiders find motivation. Do they all believe to be part of the 1/3?

He's right though--you need to start big if you want to end with a loyal, consolidated group. If you're starting with one "dedicated" team of 25, you're going to be SOL in a few months when half of them leave.

[Azsune]

I don't think attunements will be much of a problem compared to Classic TBC. My guild was already attuned week 3 for TK and SSC and most of us have done the BT chain as well. Knowledge of needing to be attuned and how to get attuned is more widely known and available than back then. Raiders quitting and being poached will always be a problem.

The hardest part of attuning was convincing a pug to go to quest giver to turn in SSC told them I'd leave GL finding a healer for just final boss in HSP, turns out they all needed it anyways and didn't know it was out. TK attunement will be a bitch once it is announced I am sure tagging mobs on a single layer will be a pain. Get it done now if you can.

[chrisnumbers]

TBC is an old outdated game with stupid concepts that were removed because they simple were bad, like raid attunement. People realise it's waste of time and quit or go back to retail, nothing out of ordinary here (More people will leave later, so you better get to recruiting).

lol?
Retail has even worse attunements, like flying lmao and gearscore

[Prozach]

I don't think attunements will be much of a problem compared to Classic TBC. My guild was already attuned week 3 for TK and SSC and most of us have done the BT chain as well. Knowledge of needing to be attuned and how to get attuned is more widely known and available than back then. Raiders quitting and being poached will always be a problem.

The hardest part of attuning was convincing a pug to go to quest giver to turn in SSC told them I'd leave GL finding a healer for just final boss in HSP, turns out they all needed it anyways and didn't know it was out. TK attunement will be a bitch once it is announced I am sure tagging mobs on a single layer will be a pain. Get it done now if you can.

Let's be real though; anyone who is serious about raiding that content already has the attunements done. I don't see people suddenly starting a quest chain they could have done six weeks ago because now there's a (sort of) date for t5 to open up. Maybe on alts but, hell, even my alt is Kara geared already and also attuned.

[psyquest]

So over the past 10 days 4-5 players in my guild have quit raiding...

Before TBCC started I did read a lot about people quitting and guilds poaching members from each other... I thought people were exaggerating but we are only 2 months in and I'm starting to see the trend

I cannot imagine what is going to happen in t5-t6...

Just imagine... you have a full geared raider attuned and suddenly he quits and the guild loses all the resources that raider got

So now the guild has to recruit new raiders who are often not geared or even not attuned... sounds like a vicious circle for many guilds

What do you guys think?

Back in the days thats what my guild faced, you have no choice but to help new recruit through the various stages to catch up or start poaching yourself.

[Kathandira]

So over the past 10 days 4-5 players in my guild have quit raiding...

Before TBCC started I did read a lot about people quitting and guilds poaching members from each other... I thought people were exaggerating but we are only 2 months in and I'm starting to see the trend

I cannot imagine what is going to happen in t5-t6...

Just imagine... you have a full geared raider attuned and suddenly he quits and the guild loses all the resources that raider got

So now the guild has to recruit new raiders who are often not geared or even not attuned... sounds like a vicious circle for many guilds

What do you guys think?

happened back in the day, and it is happening now. People tend to seek greener pastures when they are getting what they want out of the game. Whether that means joining a different guild, or quitting the game completely.

As a former Guild officer over a few different MMOs, I can say with confidence that there are red flags which can tell you whether a guild mate is just there for the loots, or if they are there for the guild.

I tend not to guild hop. Gives you a bad name, causes conflicts, and if done enough times, leaves you unable to find a guild as no one will take you. I joined Classic because of my fond memories of having a closed community. Meaning, you have those on your server to interact with, and that is it. I like that people gain reputations for better or worse. It acts as a check for how socially capable people are, and lets you know who to interact with, and who not to.

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TBC is an old outdated game with stupid concepts that were removed because they simple were bad, like raid attunement. People realise it's waste of time and quit or go back to retail, nothing out of ordinary here (More people will leave later, so you better get to recruiting).

I like attunements. More checks to see if someone is dedicated enough to raid are a good thing imo.

Only thing I would have liked, is if they were account bound, rather than character bound.

[abuimak]

My server is overpopulated, and its been a struggle to recruit

[TJ]

My guild has been ok, we may have lost 2-3 players, but that's expected. We've had pretty much the same core as Naxx and everyone carrying over. I'm mostly raid logging atm, but that's perfect for me right now. Enjoying it casually.

TBC is an old outdated game with stupid concepts that were removed because they simple were bad, like raid attunement. People realise it's waste of time and quit or go back to retail, nothing out of ordinary here (More people will leave later, so you better get to recruiting).

Retail is a new game with stupid concepts and garbage content lmao.

[Thundering]

yes more and more people are quiting the alliance, Most people are starting quit the game or go over to Horde to get the better racials it almost.
It is very noticeble since less raiders and dungeon runners are found.

I think its a combination of Racials are op and the fact that Classic is jsut heading to retail and with the boost ect, it is just heading there with lightspeed.

[Vash The Stampede]

Summer has just started, people want to go outside and enjoy life. A lot of people I know in my personal life are already on vacation.

Yet Final Fantasy isn't effected by this.

[Prozach]

Yet Final Fantasy isn't effected by this.

Of course it is. And it's silly to post otherwise here. I have noticed a steep drop off in FFXIV in the last 1-2 months; this happens with every MMO during the Summer months.

I love both games but WoW players have basically turned FF into some sort of fad after the SL let down. I don't suspect that most will stay there for long.

[Vash The Stampede]

Of course it is. And it's silly to post otherwise here. I have noticed a steep drop off in FFXIV in the last 1-2 months; this happens with every MMO during the Summer months.

You playing FFXIV kinda proves my point.

I love both games but WoW players have basically turned FF into some sort of fad after the SL let down. I don't suspect that most will stay there for long.

Lets be honest here in that Final Fantasy isn't the answer that WoW players are looking for. It has flaws, like a lot of flaws but at the same time it's a new game with better emphasis in gameplay. Boosting a character in FFXIV is not going to work in your favor, because there's so much good content that you'll miss, along with good story telling. Plus they make it so that players want to group up with new players because there's a bonus for being with them.

The downside to FFXIV is that they have a boost and they have micro-transactions for a game you pay $15 a month to play. These are reasons why WoW players are leaving, but also because the developers haven't done anything to core mechanics. Go kill that 30 times. Go kill this for that item 20 times. The quests are mostly unrewarding and crafting is still bull in WoW. TBC is failing because Blizzard introduced boosting and it was data mined that they may bring tokens to TBC. This undermines effort put in by players and that this doesn't make the game better but worse. Even though there's no token but we know it'll be introduced at some point, so people feel it's a waste of time, and of course people quit. Fight me over this but for every one person that likes boosting and tokens you have one hundred that don't. Don't be surprised that there's people who play the game but hate boosting and tokens but play for familiarity.

It's also pretty clear that with California taking Blizzard-Activision to court we learned that a lot of the WoW team would rather play Call of Duty while letting the women do all the work. So not only are players leaving because players learn of sexual harassment but the developers don't seem to like playing their own game. If developers don't like to play their own game then why would players? I believe that Blizzard should just stop working on WoW and fire all the developers and hire people who actually like playing MMO's and make a WoW2. New mechanics, quests that don't suck and give good rewards, and a way to tell a story within the game. Mass Effect did it better back in 2008 and in 2021 the community can make a better cinematic than Blizzard? Just shut down development of WoW like Square Enix did for FFXIV and get the game done right. If you're going to charge a monthly fee while also charging for the game and have micro-transactions then don't even bother making a game.

[Kaneiac]

Of course it is. And it's silly to post otherwise here. I have noticed a steep drop off in FFXIV in the last 1-2 months; this happens with every MMO during the Summer months.

I love both games but WoW players have basically turned FF into some sort of fad after the SL let down. I don't suspect that most will stay there for long.

I havent really experienced this at all in FF. My server has started to develop several hundred person long queues in the last 2 weeks that I have never seen before outside of expansion launches

[RoKPaNda]

No, our roster actually grew quite a bit in the last week or so. We've got 3x 25 man groups going right now. But a lot of it is going to depend on what your server is like. If you're on a lower pop server it's going to be rough, especially if it's one of the servers people are transferring off of for PvP reasons or whatever.

Also: Most of us are allready BiS equipped.

In your guild? Sure. Level 70 players? Not even close. Those of us that rushed to 70 and got geared quick are an extreme minority.

I'm not playing TBC classic, but it seems the general opinion on it is much worse than Classic. Probably explains it.

If you go by the forum / reddit consensus every version of WoW is worse than the last version. :P