Global warming may have already passed irreversible tipping point

[jonnysensible]

The issue has literally not ever been a lack of technological knowledge or infrastructural options.

The issue has always been the willpower to make changes, politically. Obfuscated by deliberate disinformation campaigns intended to produce confusion and uncertainty in the political sphere where little was to be found in the scientific.

We could have dropped emissions to zero and forestalled AGC being a problem at all a good 30 years ago, had politicians ignored oil-company propagandizing and bribery and focused on the science. It wouldn't have been free, but it was absolutely possible.

You're also pushing your own disinformation, again, shifting from your old Stage 3 denial of "it's not a problem" to Stage 4/5 denial; deny we can solve it/claim it's too late to solve it.

all his politics boils down to 'we should maintain the status quo'. boring.

[Draco-Onis]

I never said science can solve all our problems. That's similar to scientism.

You said science will innovate our way out of the climate change, how is that different?

Yes for economics

You've mentioned it for statistics, mathematics, game theory etc.

[Jessicka]

Really, you can start with the claim that "ice ages come and go".

No they don't. Not like they think, at least.

We're in an ice age right now. The Quaternary. It's been going on for like 2.5 million years. What they're calling "ice ages" are just glacial periods within the Quaternary; we're in an interglacial period.

It's not even that complicated. Are there ice caps at the poles? Yes or no. If "yes", then you're in an ice age. That's the definition.

While there's possibly a cycle of ice ages now, we'd only be in the third of that cycle. And to put that in scale, the second of those ice ages ended before the dinosaurs emerged. It's not what they're thinking of.

And yes; in natural terms, the Quaternary is nowhere close to being over, and we should be chilling down into a new glacial period (a process that takes tens of thousands of years; you wouldn't notice anything over the span of human lifetimes, or even civilizations). But, this global warming thing is likely to kick us out of the Quaternary a few million years before it might naturally come to an end. We've already pretty much eliminated the Arctic sea ice, at this point, we're waiting on the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps. Sure, that might take a few centuries of melting (it's a lot of ice), but that's stupidly fast, on geological scales.

I don’t know why you felt a need to mansplain this to me, I literally said not to bother.

I’m an environmental scientist. This is my job, and I’m that sick of explaining it. It’s been taught to 15 year olds for the last two decades and people still want to deny it. Let them. Ignore them. You’re not going to change their minds, all you’re doing is validating their conversation and giving it merit. It has none.

[beanman12345]

You said science will innovate our way out of the climate change, how is that different?



You've mentioned it for statistics, mathematics, game theory etc.

and climate change

Adults can't prophecize the future, kids are even worst at it.

plenty more of this debunked crap all over his posting line, being wrong about everything.

[Endus]

I don’t know why you felt a need to mansplain this to me, I literally said not to bother.

I wasn't trying to explain it to you; I was agreeing with you, and explaining to the audience we share.

This isn't a private one-on-one.

[Jessicka]

I never said science can solve all our problems. That's similar to scientism.


We should be doing everything we can every day. It's always been like that. Nobody has the final solutions for ACC yet though, society needs to advance STEM to find them.


Yes for economics, if science could reliably predict the future then we would simply switch from a liberal democracy to a science-based technocracy. Which makes zero sense because science can't tell us the future of civilization. Science can't determine whether civilization will be better off or worse off in X years in the future. Science is about testable explanations and it's not a crystal ball for civilization.

Science has found many, many ways.

People with money have found ways to deny it, block it, pretend it’s undesirable, literally buy up rights to it and bin it, buy up companies and shut them down.

Just as they’ve done to shut down moves to cut air pollution, river and sea pollution, keep people smoking and keep people worrying about other shit instead like LGBT+ rights, and refugees.

It’s fuck all to do with scientific capabilities finding a way in the future when we had answers 20 years ago. It’s about distraction, shutting down competition and wailing “well there’s a 0.9% chance it might not be”.

[ShouldhaveplayedFFXIV]

Everyone in this thread: "It's the evil republicans/west/america/anti-vax/people I don't like that caused the world to be burned to a crisp!"

Even if America went zero overnight, China, India, and Russia would never stop firing up the coal plants - And they don't care about third world countries near them suffering from floods or the like. In fact, the majority of them would rather die and murder their children than give up on dreams of being a top world power. America, due to catholic guilt and being full of well-fed fatsos might be pressured into thinking of the future of environmentalism, but if you think China, India, or Russia are going to stop just because of mass flooding or other people getting wrecked, that's a laugh. And honestly, who can blame them? People in these countries would rather die than be subjected to massive poverty like pre-industrial Chinese days.

You better hope science and man-made methods are economically friendly as a way to stop global warming because otherwise, it's going nowhere with the east.

[Jessicka]

Everyone in this thread: "It's the evil republicans/west/america/anti-vax/people I don't like that caused the world to be burned to a crisp!"

Even if America went zero overnight, China, India, and Russia would never stop firing up the coal plants - And they don't care about third world countries near them suffering from floods or the like. In fact, the majority of them would rather die and murder their children than give up on dreams of being a top world power. America, due to catholic guilt and being full of well-fed fatsos might be pressured into thinking of the future of environmentalism, but if you think China, India, or Russia are going to stop just because of mass flooding or other people getting wrecked, that's a laugh. And honestly, who can blame them? People in these countries would rather die than be subjected to massive poverty like pre-industrial Chinese days.

You better hope science and man-made methods are economically friendly as a way to stop global warming because otherwise, it's going nowhere with the east.

They were bankrolled into dependence on oil like the rest of the planet. China is actually making the most rapid progress in improving renewable power and bringing costs down out of anyone, because strangely enough, even the leaders don’t enjoy their cities being smog filled hellholes.

Meanwhile Britain literally gave up in its efforts in trying to bring the cost down half a decade ago.

[Endus]

Everyone in this thread: "It's the evil republicans/west/america/anti-vax/people I don't like that caused the world to be burned to a crisp!"

Even if America went zero overnight, China, India, and Russia would never stop firing up the coal plants - And they don't care about third world countries near them suffering from floods or the like. In fact, the majority of them would rather die and murder their children than give up on dreams of being a top world power. America, due to catholic guilt and being full of well-fed fatsos might be pressured into thinking of the future of environmentalism, but if you think China, India, or Russia are going to stop just because of mass flooding or other people getting wrecked, that's a laugh. And honestly, who can blame them? People in these countries would rather die than be subjected to massive poverty like pre-industrial Chinese days.

You better hope science and man-made methods are economically friendly as a way to stop global warming because otherwise, it's going nowhere with the east.

"Economically friendly" is just intellectual masturbation. Economics is a way to measure how much you don't want to bother, not determine what's fundamentally achievable.

Also, China did massive overhauls of its emissions profile in the early 2000s. Faster relative response and reductions than anywhere in the developed world. China's currently the world leader when it comes to wind power.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN2AU157
https://apnews.com/article/europe-bu...be1460f0f09ffd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_by_country

China's also never come close to the emissions per capita of the USA. People forget they've got over a billion people, for some damned reason.

[ShouldhaveplayedFFXIV]

They were bankrolled into dependence on oil like the rest of the planet. China is actually making the most rapid progress in improving renewable power and bringing costs down out of anyone, because strangely enough, even the leaders don’t enjoy their cities being smog filled hellholes.

Legit either uneducated or a shill if you believe China actually gives a shit about the environment or trust any stats they push out. Have you ever been to Beijing, bro?

China's also never come close to the emissions per capita of the USA. People forget they've got over a billion people, for some damned reason.

This is so absurd and ignorant that I can't even begin to understand how you can believe this. You literally have to move to China and check out how life is there - It's a complete day/night compared to the USA and what we consider to be proper precautions towards environmental preservation.

You know that the Chinese political body just lies about the majority of these project numbers and it's equivalent to Potemkin villages, right? The reason they do so is that when disasters strike such as the Three Gorges Dam or any of the yellow river floodings they can blame it on the west and other countries' pollution instead of their shitty infrastructure made out of old USA garbage, right?

Please tell me you are not this gulliable.

[Elegiac]

Legit either uneducated or a shill if you believe China actually gives a shit about the environment or trust any stats they push out. Have you ever been to Beijing, bro?

Yes, I have. Still doesn't change the statistical fact that per capita carbon emissions are higher in the US.

It's also just a silly whataboutist argument wherein the point is you getting defensive at people questioning the status quo rather actually giving a shit about emissions.

[Jessicka]

Legit either uneducated or a shill if you believe China actually gives a shit about the environment or trust any stats they push out. Have you ever been to Beijing, bro?



This is so absurd and ignorant that I can't even begin to understand how you can believe this. You literally have to move to China and check out how life is there - It's a complete day/night compared to the USA and what we consider to be proper precautions towards environmental preservation.

You know that the Chinese political body just lies about the majority of these project numbers and it's equivalent to Potemkin villages, right? The reason they do so is that when disasters strike such as the Three Gorges Dam or any of the yellow river floodings they can blame it on the west and other countries' pollution instead of their shitty infrastructure made out of old USA garbage, right?

Please tell me you are not this gulliable.

I have a lot of Chinese students, they’re literally on the courses I work on to take this back and make it better.

There probably is a limit on how much of a shit they give about the pollution, but they’re well ahead of the game in understanding where the money will be on the emergent technology that’ll be needed to deal with it.

Meanwhile we’re just like “let’s just keeping the excuses rolling to maintain the status quo”. In some ways PC2 actually has a point on tech fixing it (or more accuracy living with it). Aside from it being far too late already there is an inevitability that it will come along. Long term that’s a strategic misstep, but our governments don’t have the same long term plans that a totalitarian despot can.

[ShouldhaveplayedFFXIV]

whataboutist .

It's not whataboutist - It's the point that regardless of what the US does, that global warming will be still marching on even if the utopia of all the evil bad Florida man republicans vanished overnight in the US. And, really, if you believe in Chinese bootlicking numbers and are not just shilling, then I feel bad for your brain.

I have a lot of Chinese students, they’re literally on the courses I work on to take this back and make it better.

Please ask your students about how Henan compares to any other capital city on Earth.

[uuuhname]

It's not whataboutist - It's the point that regardless of what the US does, that global warming will be still marching on even if the utopia of all the evil bad Florida man republicans vanished overnight in the US. And, really, if you believe in Chinese bootlicking numbers and are not just shilling, then I feel bad for your brain.

still doesn't change the fact the US creates more pollution by a vast margin over literally everyone else.

[Elegiac]

It's not whataboutist - It's the point that regardless of what the US does, that global warming will be still marching on even if the utopia of all the evil bad Florida man republicans vanished overnight in the US. And, really, if you believe in Chinese bootlicking numbers and are not just shilling, then I feel bad for your brain.

Considering you're responding to people pointing out the developed world has the highest per capita emissions with "but what about China" - yes, yes it is.

Also: even if they are massaging the numbers it does not change the fact that most of China is still not industrialised and physically incapable of putting out the same level of per capita emissions, nor does it change the fact that much of China's emissions are....wait for it... the result of western economic demands.

So no, the idea that the US or the rest of the developed world changing its outlook to sustainability wouldn't do anything is a self serving kneejerk defense of the status quo that isn't actually backed up by anything.

[ShouldhaveplayedFFXIV]

still doesn't change the fact the US creates more pollution by a vast margin over literally everyone else.

That's 100% wrong. It just has the most REPORTED pollution compared to other countries because Americans don't black bag environmental whistle-blowers on the daily. Prob still does sometimes, but not as much as the CCP or India.

Considering you're responding to people pointing out the developed world has the highest per capita emissions with "but what about China" - yes, yes it is.

Yeah, yeah, we get it already, you are a shill. Whatever. Keep licking those boots, pig.

[Jessicka]

It's not whataboutist - It's the point that regardless of what the US does, that global warming will be still marching on even if the utopia of all the evil bad Florida man republicans vanished overnight in the US. And, really, if you believe in Chinese bootlicking numbers and are not just shilling, then I feel bad for your brain.



Please ask your students about how Henan compares to any other capital city on Earth.

Everything bought by the west is built in China, if we clean our own house, by default almost theirs gets cleaned as well. It also becomes international standard tech so everyone just ends up using it.

It’s why in the Brexit debate arguing that we could set out own standards was pointless since the world is just going to pretty much build to EU standards anyway because it’s just easier to standardise production that way.

Why do you think HD DVD and Betamax failed?

They know this and they’re just getting set for it. And we’re just going to have to buy their solar cells and windmills.

[uuuhname]

That's 100% wrong. It just has the most REPORTED pollution compared to other countries because Americans don't black bag environmental whistle-blowers on the daily. Prob still does sometimes, but not as much as the CCP or India.

I mean why would they lie? what's the point in lying? it's not like there are some sort of consequences to doing so...

[ShouldhaveplayedFFXIV]

I mean why would they lie? what's the point in lying? it's not like there are some sort of consequences to doing so...

Come on dude, you for real? lol.

[Elegiac]

That's 100% wrong. It just has the most REPORTED pollution compared to other countries because Americans don't black bag environmental whistle-blowers on the daily. Prob still does sometimes, but not as much as the CCP or India.

Yeah, yeah, we get it already, you are a shill. Whatever. Keep licking those boots, pig.

Imagine getting so defensive at the suggestion that something be done about climate change you get triggered when asked to provide evidence of your claims.