You are being carried...

[muto]

Yeah doing 4 dungeons a week to optimize your character more isn’t a huge time investment. It’s probably not as important now, because Blizzard fucked up with how many upgrades you can actually find, because of Domination Sockets, but I would still do 4 a week if I was playing. It’s not a huge time investment, and I would want to play with players of a similar mindset.

[brinkber245]

I've played a team sport my entire life actually. Practice is not optional and every one of us puts in just as much effort regardless of any genetic advantages some of us may have.

So you're the marginal one, good to know

[Beefhammer]

Yeah, it's just the LFD gogogo mentality that has been a cancer since late Wrath. M+ weaponised it. I'm all for harder dungeons and scaling to keep things relevant, but the timed aspect feels unnecessary. The reward for finishing faster should be that you get your rewards faster. And one diva throwing a tantrum mid run, or a mistake or just a bug being a wasted key has made me not want to interact with it.

Remove the timed aspect and the competitive rankings and they would be better IMO. Been discussing a similar thing about D4. Hoping they do not add any timed aspect end game activity. Since all it does is funnel players to speed clear builds.

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Good thing you aren't forced to "rote learn eight dungeons the exact same way as everyone else from a guide I saw on the internet" (whatever rote means) and can easily create your own routes and group, huh?

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Or someone got their feelings hurt and reported them for having a differing opinion, which is all too common on this site.

More like he was trolling and got reported for it. Not our fault the OP was condensing and retaliatory.

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So you're the marginal one, good to know

He's full of it if he thinks all team members give equal effort in practice. Hell, regularly vets and star players don't even have to practice with the team in preseason, and there were plenty who slacked on the various team sports I've played in HS and college.

[Swnem]

lol... this OP has entitlement issues.

Sorry that not everyone is putting their lives on pause so you can have a marginally better time. You are just gonna have to get over that.

[Kumorii]

Highly more complex than this. I put in the work at the start of a tier. Then when I'm over geared and the effort required to input to gain minimal benefit is heavily skewed. I raidlog.

I dislike grinding so I don't do grinding shit. And usually it's not worth it.

As long as you perform at good dps/healing/tanking and do mechanics properly you aren't being carried.

I see more people putting in shit ton of work in gear and pushing those extra dps gains but still perform badly in execution as well as mechanics.

You are being carried if you don't pull your weight. That's it.

[crakerjack]

I don’t mind if people don’t do M+. What I do mind is when people can’t do the bare minimum and play their class correctly. I just laugh when people who barely green parse for their ilvl worry about loot. I don’t want to play with people who can’t parse at least 70% for their ilvl because those are the people who don’t care and are a burden on the raid. I’ll happily sit down with them and go over logs in order to help them become better, but if they refuse, they can fuck right on off to LFR.

[Rustedsaint]

Hah no, I outperformed the m+ spammers in my group every raid tier, raids are more about understanding mechanics then outgearing them.

[MoanaLisa]

If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

Seems to me that depends on the group and what level of difficulty the group/guild/whatever is working on. But this thread isn't really about that is it? It seems the real point here is to display a certain level of elitism and entitlement followed by then telling everyone how they should be playing.

Really fucking happy I don't raid any longer and can just observe and comment on this nonsense from the sidelines.

[Eazy]

I know a few people who are only raiding and still doing fine.

They're not doing EVERYTHING to be better players, but they're doing enough. And that's more than fine.

[DazManianDevil]

I don’t mind if people don’t do M+. What I do mind is when people can’t do the bare minimum and play their class correctly. I just laugh when people who barely green parse for their ilvl worry about loot. I don’t want to play with people who can’t parse at least 70% for their ilvl because those are the people who don’t care and are a burden on the raid. I’ll happily sit down with them and go over logs in order to help them become better, but if they refuse, they can fuck right on off to LFR.

This, from the bleachers.
Most Mythic raiders I know and play with do 1-4keys a week depending on affix and raid log. This tier we spent a hell of a lot of time reclearing Normal and Heroic for Dom pieces but besides that it's been a good time.
As for players I also know who are hard stuck 6/10H-2/10M, with 240+ilvl, most think they're good enough and hold their rosters back by again, not actually playing their spec at a basic level.
"No Timmy, just because you CAN press Conflag 3 times in a row, doesn't mean you ever DO."

[arkanon]

To me, getting carried means underperforming to a degree that a full raid group of equally poor performing individuals would not be able to clear the content, if not for the better players doing the work.

Sometimes you will queue for say, a heroic dungeon, and the tank is friends with someone and brings his fully mythic raid geared tank to squash the place. This is obviously a carry to some extent, however that person is grossly Over performing, which to me at least, is a different thing.

But I look at it this way - say the person who raid logs is an exceptional player, has the gear needed, and performs at the top end of the raid on all encounters, can anyone REALLY say they are being carried, just because if they spent hours per week farming content they don't like they could be 4ilvos higher doing a few percent more damage? That's crazy to me.

[Tietoso]

I personally thought that you could do either one or the other, not that you had to do both. I personally only heal on Mythic plus and DPS on raids.

[Weeps]

Breathe. Re-prioritize yourself.

[Metrox]

Why are players in guilds that anger them? If someone in your progressive raid team angers you due to their lack of your dedication standard, call them out in voice and in chat during the raid. Let them know that you and others of your dedication level don't want to carry them in progression anymore. If everyone else in your raid team disagrees with you, then go find a more enthusiastic effort guild. They will welcome you and your playing effort.

Carried players will only learn their true team worth when players such as yourself give them the choice of M+ grind or get off our coat tails! Show them the error of their ways and point them to the LFR menu where I will greet them and cheer when we finally down the first boss.

[ElDoorO]

Oh boy, this thread is a dumpster fire.

On one side you got people who like the grind and like the edge and wish their team members put forth similar efforts to match the edge, put vaguely enough that anyone can infer just enough to do vault or some unhealthy amount of grinding.

On the other side you have people triggered so hard they are mocking others. Whether through ignoring the actual question / context and just saying "breathe" or, somehow, presuming they have "no life".

Of which if WoW is your hobby it's not unreasonable to think someone will put around 3 hours per day every day into the game. Where the 3 hours can be two on Sunday and four on raid nights and others on other nights.

And then you have people who play 3 hours per week clearly very upset.

And you also have them acting like instead of them being carried, it's the REVERSE...

Nearly all of which is based off of nothing but their personal experiences and assuming no one has different experiences.

So if you're a prog Mythic guild -- then it's unreasonable to assume WoW is less than a significant hobby. You aren't 2+ mythic raiding and not at least a little serious.

In that context, if you were playing competitive but not professional baseball would you be upset others are putting in less work and not as dedicated as you are? Probably so.

More likely few of y'all are actually in progression guilds and likely can't compete so you're upset --or-- are in but barely holding on.

IF much of your guild is putting in way more effort than you then yeah, you may not like the truth that you're being carried and likely that upsets many people here down to their core.

If, however, you're putting the same or similar effort in, then nah. You're not and y'all are just a little more than casuals. Simple as that.

p.s. it's ok not to be in progression guilds and enjoying the game casually, much to the frustration of some hardcore people here.

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Why are players in guilds that anger them? If someone in your progressive raid team angers you due to their lack of your dedication standard, call them out in voice and in chat during the raid. Let them know that you and others of your dedication level don't want to carry them in progression anymore. If everyone else in your raid team disagrees with you, then go find a more enthusiastic effort guild. They will welcome you and your playing effort.

Carried players will only learn their true team worth when players such as yourself give them the choice of M+ grind or get off our coat tails! Show them the error of their ways and point them to the LFR menu where I will greet them and cheer when we finally down the first boss.

They are probably just venting. It's quite possible they don't expect change and just need to let it out to feel validated.

[starstationprofm]

If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

This is 100% true. But it's the Officer's job to boot you the fuck out and get someone who'll put in the same effort as the rest of the raid.

[Tietoso]

This is 100% true. But it's the Officer's job to boot you the fuck out and get someone who'll put in the same effort as the rest of the raid.

What if your guild doesn't support you when by teaming with you to do Mythic+ and leave you to try and pug it? Then would you agree with it? If the guild expects me to do M+ to progress in M raiding which are 2 separate content I would expect they would party with me otherwise I would disagree with that.

[liqwidram]

I played this game for enjoyment, not as a 2nd job where i was not getting paid. i quit because that enjoyment went away. And found other things to enjoy. so you can take your fucking opinion and quietly and quickly go unfuck yourself.

[InflaterMouse]

You are probably right. I probably just need to relax but it can be incredibly frustrating. This is good advice though so thanks!

You're correct about your topic but yea no need to get so frustrated. I have always had some of these people in every raid I have ever been a part of. My biggest issue with these folks are actually outside of raids, they will beg, borrow and steal to get what they need from people but when asked to help others if it doesn't directly help them in some way or another they won't do shit. My previous guild had about 5-6 of these people as a part of it, including some of the top officers. They were clickish, would expect handouts, carries on alts and weekly content completions but wouldn't lift a fking finger to help run a mythic or alt raid unless they specifically needed something from the run.

[darklogrus]

I was Realm 1st on 4 fights last tier and didn't have any M+ gear.