KGB Hijacks Flight to Arrest Journalist.

[Azadina]

You're conveniently skipping part right after USSR fell and at least up to Georgian war.

Because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Oh, please do elaborate. Do you mean to say that because Russia was in disarray after the fall of USSR, and couldn't keep their former oppressed vassal states in the union by force, it was somehow therefore showing good faith? Or something to such effect?

[Shalcker]

Oh, please do elaborate. Do you mean to say that because Russia was in disarray after the fall of USSR, and couldn't keep their former oppressed vassal states in the union by force, it was somehow therefore showing good faith? Or something to such effect?

How would you expect "good faith" to look like?

The moment USSR released grip on them some of them went to war with each other. Like still relevant Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict.
Or Chechnya - similar to modern ISIS, with tacit Western support of "Chechen rebels" (that were taking hostages).

Crimea tried to vote to become independent and Ukraine shut down their local government with military - Russia could have supported them back then but didn't.

[Easo]

Yeah, right, like you could reject both...

They are neither omnipotent nor omniscient. Yes, they could be forced to.

This forum is pretty united at loving Western narratives and looking at everything else as Kremlin propaganda.

See people, a good example of thinking from our big neighbour to the east - Shalcker is simply are incapable of grasping such concepts as actually free voting, where we, in this example, indeed could reject them.

Suuure, who will force them to? Police has become very adept at beating protesters up.

Brah... I just have to open our local media and take a look at how very active specific people have become now that the election is here. Yes, it is Kremlin propaganda and you are just a tool for it.
\

Nope, there were plenty of times.

...and then West made anti-missile systems with clear anti-Russian intent, supported Orange Revolution, supported Kosovo independence, added Baltics into NATO, supported Georgian shelling of Russian peacekeepers, and many more.

Why do you think Russia is the only one who has to "behave good" and your side is free to "do whatever is convenient"?

See, imperialist thinking again. How dare Baltics join NATO, Russia must have a say in that!

Also lol about Yugoslavia - Russia's only achievement in stopping Serbs comitting genocide (proven and inarguable) was driving to one airfield and making medals about such great success and how they totally showed the West.

I guess you have your own russian definition of acting in good faith. Can you give us an exemple of Russia acting in good faith ? Was it in Ukraine ?

You are arguing with people who think that word allies means puppets/subjects and then are very surprised that said "puppets/subjects" are displeased with "master" behaving like an overlord.

[Azadina]

How would you expect "good faith" to look like?

The moment USSR released grip on them some of them went to war with each other. Like still relevant Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict.
Or Chechnya - similar to modern ISIS, with tacit Western support of "Chechen rebels" (that were taking hostages).

Crimea tried to vote to become independent and Ukraine shut down their local government with military - Russia could have supported them back then but didn't.

So, because you didn't invade and steal Crimea back then, that equals to good faith? Just you know, a decade later? I would expect good faith to look like good faith, but I do not expect Russia to understand the concept. You keep proving that. You think acting less like tyrant, but still tyrant equals good faith.

[Shalcker]

So, because you didn't invade and steal Crimea back then, that equals to good faith?

Nope, there was plenty of other stuff.
Like shelling parliament with Western cheers.

Just you know, a decade later?

Two decades later, after US supported two revolutions in Ukraine.

I would expect good faith to look like good faith, but I do not expect Russia to understand the concept. You keep proving that. You think acting less like tyrant, but still tyrant equals good faith.

Russia acted in good faith. Looked for common ground and common interests. Even provided support route for NATO forces in Afghanistan.

But this good faith wasn't reciprocated.

You claim it wasn't but you haven't show how it didn't look like one.

Even in Ukraine Russia offered tripartite talks after Accession Agreement fell through to get mutually beneficial agreement... but EU preferred revolution.

[Jastall]

West haven't changed either, same imperialism under different mask.

Please. Russia is just as imperialistic as America, it just has fewer means to actually enforce it and thus bullies their neighbors instead of people half a world away.

[Shalcker]

Please. Russia is just as imperialistic as America, it just has fewer means to actually enforce it and thus bullies their neighbors instead of people half a world away.

There are many dimensions of imperialism, and Russian imperialism is quite different from American.

We can see it from Afghanistan example.

[Jastall]

There are many dimensions of imperialism, and Russian imperialism is quite different from American.

We can see it from Afghanistan example.

Trying the exact same thing and failing in the exact same way a few years beforehand?

I eagerly await the "but it was USSR" response as if that mattered and changed anything.

[Shalcker]

Trying the exact same thing and failing in the exact same way a few years beforehand?

Leaving functioning government vs leaving chaos behind.

Same with Eastern Europe/Eastern Germany.

I eagerly await the "but it was USSR" response as if that mattered and changed anything.

USSR is still better then modern US.

[Jastall]

Leaving functioning government vs leaving chaos behind.

Same with Eastern Europe/Eastern Germany.

USSR is still better then modern US.

"Functioning government" that was embroiled in three years of civil war claiming tens of thousands of lives until the Taliban took over? Yes indeed, much different, thank you Russia for such exemplary results.

[Shalcker]

"Functioning government" that was embroiled in three years of civil war claiming tens of thousands of lives until the Taliban took over?

That is still better then what Americans had left. ...not to mention that those on other side of that civil war kept getting support.

Yes indeed, much different, thank you Russia for such exemplary results.

It doesn't need much to be better then Americans.

[Jastall]

That is still better then what Americans had left. ...not to mention that those on other side of that civil war kept getting support.

It doesn't need much to be better then Americans.

Is it better? It just means more deaths until the same inevitable end. The Taliban still took over.

You quickly went from "very different" to "well at least we're not quite as bad" and even if it is, it's by lack of means for Russia to impose itself, not intent, and even still I'm questioning the "not quite as bad" quite heavily. I'm not going around in circles about this all day however, I've seen you post.

[Lanrefni]

You are forgetting who provided support for batshit crazy islamists. Without US support islamists would have been crushed.

But must defeat bad commies!!! At all costs!!!

Then there is whole Iran clusterfuck created by US. Basically US can be blamed for pretty much all of the shitshow we see today.

Even in modern post-USSR days US have openly supported islamists in Chechnya, while pretending to be friends then wonder why Russia doesn't want to be friends anymore.

Iran was mostly British Petroleum and the British government with assistance from the CIA in regards to the assassination of their democratically elected prime minister,CIA then toppled the Shah putting the Ayatollah in charge,so the US is only about half responsible for the current situation there.

[jonnysensible]

Iran was mostly British Petroleum and the British government with assistance from the CIA in regards to the assassination of their democratically elected prime minister,CIA then toppled the Shah putting the Ayatollah in charge,so the US is only about half responsible for the current situation there.

obviously nobody who isn't white or living in the west has any agency or has had any agency for 60 years

[Jastall]

You are forgetting who provided support for batshit crazy islamists. Without US support islamists would have been crushed.

But must defeat bad commies!!! At all costs!!!

Then there is whole Iran clusterfuck created by US. Basically US can be blamed for pretty much all of the shitshow we see today.

Even in modern post-USSR days US have openly supported islamists in Chechnya, while pretending to be friends then wonder why Russia doesn't want to be friends anymore.

"Those darn other imperialists got in the way of our imperialism!" isn't the winning argument you believe it is.

[Shalcker]

Is it better? It just means more deaths until the same inevitable end. The Taliban still took over.

Yes, more deaths from American interventions.

You quickly went from "very different" to "well at least we're not quite as bad" and even if it is, it's by lack of means for Russia to impose itself, not intent, and even still I'm questioning the "not quite as bad" quite heavily. I'm not going around in circles about this all day however, I've seen you post.

The results are very different. Because it's different imperialist models.

Where America lets things burn because they exploit the instability to either loot and plunder or to advance their internal corrupt schemes, Russia needs stability for it's own brand of exploitation because it cannot avoid negative effects of that instability when it's right across the border (or inside them).

- - - Updated - - -

obviously nobody who isn't white or living in the west has any agency or has had any agency for 60 years

People are still afraid of destabilization and outside support to fringe groups even in West, as we see with numerous "Russia influencing elections/supporting far-righters" scares.

Do Western people have agency? Or does Russian support denies it to them?

[Easo]

Well, time to revive this a bit.
Lukashenko is attempting to play his "trump card", if it can be called that, by attempting sending a 1k+ large group of migrants into Poland, who are now trying to breach the Polish border by making attempts at destroying fences.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59206685

Shouts of "Germany!" are pretty telling, as are Belorussian border guard in the background doing nothing.

Lot's of videos from both sides here:
https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova

[Easo]

Fun continues, with some groups breaching Polish borders yesterday night and then getting arrested, thousands still on other side.
Minsk is saying that "Poland is increasing the threat in the region"
Meanwhile Poland accuses Moscow as the real mastermind behind this - this is doubtful, though for sure Russia is interested in this escalation. Both autocrats made a call today to "discuss the crisis".

There are also reports that special flights are being organized from Syria, Damascus to Minsk, which are bringing Kurdish migrants to Belarus. Those flights did not happen before

[MCMLXXXII]

He's the world greatest trafficker now

[Shalcker]

Fun continues, with some groups breaching Polish borders yesterday night and then getting arrested, thousands still on other side.
Minsk is saying that "Poland is increasing the threat in the region"
Meanwhile Poland accuses Moscow as the real mastermind behind this - this is doubtful, though for sure Russia is interested in this escalation. Both autocrats made a call today to "discuss the crisis".

I think they arrested some Russian guy who supposedly helped those migrants or something?

Obviously any Russian involved means it's Russian plot in it's entirety! /s