Should wow force you to learn the basics?

[DazManianDevil]

No. I know that for some of the self styled elite here it might be a shocking discovery, but people have the right to be bad. That's why there is stuff such as achievements (although with the rampant boosting epidemic, it's hard to tell anymore) or r.io, so that you can keep those bad players outside your groups. But you can't, and more importantly, shouldn't tell everyone to Git Gud™ - if someone is interested in it, the available resources are more than enough.

You're absolutely correct in that people have the right to be bad. I then also have the right of not allowing those same bad players into my group, and then they come to MMO-C and post threads about how hard it is to PuG and I'm the bad guy. Tis a vicious cycle eh.

Or, a good friend of mine is trying to progress Mythic, they're stuck on Remnant with around 60+ pulls due to low dps. I offer to help their weaker players read logs and learn something, but I'm the bad guy and people who pay $15/mn are entitled to play however they want. Their own officers are afraid to help their weaker players for fear of upsetting them.
They would rather wipe 2-3 nights a week than risk asking someone to give a shit about their performance in Mythic content.
Call me an old fashioned elitist but I find that particular attitude disrespectful and it plagues the upper Heroic to lower Mythic scene something fierce.
More useful resources in-game would be a plus but at the end of the day, bad players will be bad.
To quote The Matrix "I can only show you the door. You, have to walk through it." /end rant

[Huehuecoyotl]

90%+ of what's required to play the game to a high standard is either not easily available in the game, or is so opaque that it's extraordinarily difficult to work out. I'm sure there are some people out there that went through all the process of figuring out the best spec/soulbind/conduits/rotation/gear/stats/etc. etc. There must be, because otherwise these sites that explain it all wouldn't exist. But I guarantee you that 9 out of 10 people that claim they did are lying; they went to a website and then did what they were told, like the rest of us.

A game shouldn't need this much assistance from an army of unpaid help to exist. They shouldn't need unpaid testers for their expansions and patches. They shouldn't need websites to explain how to build your character. They shouldn't need so many addon developers creating everything that's needed to make the game function properly. That they do is testament to how overly complex all the interracting systems are, and how poorly the game is designed to help the players learn it.

The players don't help, either. Toxic to the point that the first thing most players will learn is "don't ask questions, don't let them know you're new".

So yes, the game needs a better way to teach players how to play the game. But it needs a lot more than that as well.

[crusadernero]

Seems an odd topic to bring up but it is something I find myself thinking about now and then especially with mods like Hekili becoming more popular.

Should wow offer/incorporate a basic rotation helper into their game as a teaching tool for new players? There isn't really a lot of resources in game to figure out if you are doing something right or wrong these days and it seems to me at least an ideal way to get people started.

the game plays the same at lower levels as in high levels. People have enough time to learn by themself, as it should be.

[Soon-TM]

how hard it is to PuG and I'm the bad guy.

It isn't necessarily about being "bad", it's just that if you pug as a dps, you are but a snowflake in the middle of the Antarctica. Pugging as a healer or a tank is way, way easier.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You're absolutely correct in that people have the right to be bad. I then also have the right of not allowing those same bad players into my group, and then they come to MMO-C and post threads about how hard it is to PuG and I'm the bad guy. Tis a vicious cycle eh.

Or, a good friend of mine is trying to progress Mythic, they're stuck on Remnant with around 60+ pulls due to low dps. I offer to help their weaker players read logs and learn something, but I'm the bad guy and people who pay $15/mn are entitled to play however they want. Their own officers are afraid to help their weaker players for fear of upsetting them.
They would rather wipe 2-3 nights a week than risk asking someone to give a shit about their performance in Mythic content.
Call me an old fashioned elitist but I find that particular attitude disrespectful and it plagues the upper Heroic to lower Mythic scene something fierce.
More useful resources in-game would be a plus but at the end of the day, bad players will be bad.
To quote The Matrix "I can only show you the door. You, have to walk through it." /end rant

I agree with what you've said, I think a big problem, is players lack of awareness and inability to take any form of critique without whining.

But I don't agree with OP, players shouldn't be forced to take part in some sort of advanced tutorial, we all somehow learned to play this game without one, and the information in and out of game on how to play has only gotten more accessible, not many excuses out there outside of lack of desire to improve.

[RayenDark]

I think interrupting should be a basic skill a player should be taught to use if your spec is capable.

[Argorwal]

90%+ of what's required to play the game to a high standard is either not easily available in the game, or is so opaque that it's extraordinarily difficult to work out. I'm sure there are some people out there that went through all the process of figuring out the best spec/soulbind/conduits/rotation/gear/stats/etc. etc. There must be, because otherwise these sites that explain it all wouldn't exist. But I guarantee you that 9 out of 10 people that claim they did are lying; they went to a website and then did what they were told, like the rest of us.

A game shouldn't need this much assistance from an army of unpaid help to exist. They shouldn't need unpaid testers for their expansions and patches. They shouldn't need websites to explain how to build your character. They shouldn't need so many addon developers creating everything that's needed to make the game function properly. That they do is testament to how overly complex all the interracting systems are, and how poorly the game is designed to help the players learn it.

The players don't help, either. Toxic to the point that the first thing most players will learn is "don't ask questions, don't let them know you're new".

So yes, the game needs a better way to teach players how to play the game. But it needs a lot more than that as well.

The problem is the knowledge base is out there, and you can’t just ignore how good players have become and how much they know when designing content or it becomes a joke and boring (see classic).

That’s why there are multiple difficulty settings after all.

[Zantos]

Silver Proving Grounds was right to be a requirement, but it didn't have a reward to bait people along with. The reward was being able to actually do chores.

The Mage Tower incentivized people to actually learn their class for a reward. Why it was removed and why more challenges weren't added is beyond me.

These things highlight the problems with Blizz when they try to make a tutorial: they're basic and help no one. Silver proving grounds was so easy, a tank could easily beat the dps challenge. The mage tower was even worse. What was a challenge for some dps, was a breeze for others. Same for tanks. The challenge was stupid hard for some tanks and very easy for others.

They highlight that they usually do a 1 size fits all. Nothing custom tailored to a class. The closest we got to something that could be a class tutorial was the green fire questline and the hunter challenge tame pets in the molten front. Those required specific class skills and knowledge about using the class to a high potential. They became moot after 1 expansion though.

As far as learning the basics, you do that by leveling. If you don't, you'll get destroyed and be unable to do a quest even. Most groups will kick someone out who is just incapable of pulling their weight. Leave it up to the guides you can read in like, 10mins tops online. They put in the effort for each class and spec as well as keeping the guides updated through each patch.

[Deadite]

Sounds like a terrible idea for a multiplayer game. I can't think of any situation beyond predatory ones where you wouldn't want everyone knowing how to play.

How to play? It is a video game. There is no wrong way to play it. You want to pick herbs all day? You want Rp as a sheep? You want to master your class and get a world first? Fill your boots. Play what ever way you want to. The multiplayer part is there to find people who play the same way you want to. Find like minded people and play with them. Don't try to force other people to play the way you deem to be the 'Right Way'.

[Zyrinx]

Nope.

"The Basics" would be the new "casual", aka a term that everyone uses and no one can define.

[Blackmist]

I find it a little jarring that there are quests that require you to use /emotes (including one on the new starter island), but no quests that require the use of common abilities like interrupts or CC.

Classes without those could be offered a different quest, or an item that performs that action.

[crakerjack]

I find it a little jarring that there are quests that require you to use /emotes (including one on the new starter island), but no quests that require the use of common abilities like interrupts or CC.

Classes without those could be offered a different quest, or an item that performs that action.

Technically during exiles reach near the end, you are tasked to interrupt a boss or take damage until you die. But yea, the game doesn't do a good enough job teaching players how to play their class/spec optimally.

[Powerogue]

Ideally that's what leveling and normal mode dungeons are for. I think the new island does a good job at very basic controls.

[Osmeric]

The game should ensure players can play well. It can do that by making it extremely easy and obvious how to play well.

[Soon-TM]

I think interrupting should be a basic skill a player should be taught to use if your spec is capable.

You could always borrow one or two pages from Vanilla (not everything ofc) and have caster mobs who will kick the crap out of you with their spells if you don't interrupt them.

[Ringthane]

You could always borrow one or two pages from Vanilla (not everything ofc) and have caster mobs who will kick the crap out of you with their spells if you don't interrupt them.

The summoning room in Scholomance still gives most people nightmares... I still have the sword Silent Fang in my bags - I used to use it in just that room, and it saved the group more than once.

[ippollite]

How to play? It is a video game. There is no wrong way to play it. You want to pick herbs all day? You want Rp as a sheep? You want to master your class and get a world first? Fill your boots. Play what ever way you want to. The multiplayer part is there to find people who play the same way you want to. Find like minded people and play with them. Don't try to force other people to play the way you deem to be the 'Right Way'.

I have this sudden urge to resub to wow, find the fluffiest transmog available and rp as a sheep...

[Soon-TM]

I have this sudden urge to resub to wow, find the fluffiest transmog available and rp as a sheep...

You don't even need to resub, you just need to come to MMOC (or any online boards except the official ones, for that matter) and defend Blizzard adamantly against the unending waves of haters whose only wish is to see the game die because they are angry ex's or something